books

Can anyone advise me on what books to get. I heard one person, i think it was derek, say to someone else...."if you can complete that book then....." and i thought, man ive never actually sat down and worked thru a book properly!

however when i browse thru the music stores i see nothing but beginner books or books on technique. my technique is fine and of course always improving due to the routine i follow, but id like to find some books containing advanced studies. there don't seem to be any books that can tell you licks. like when u see dave or vinnie etc do something......combination sticking between toms and bass drums to create cool patterns......wheres all that stuff? or what does it come from?

I have just started horacio hernandez' book and its cool for independence......i was also told to check out gary chesters book but all i see is pages and pages of one line notes.....n0.1 what are u supposed to do (just keep hi hat going on 4????) and n0.2 what if u cant read some of the combinations. and how do they go from 1 bar excersises into music!

i often go thru the music examples in modern drummer etc....but they are so easy and i can already do them. i want advancved concepts!!

any advice??

KIM PLAINFIELD - advanced techniques , a kick ass book w/ 2 cds
GAry Chaffee vids and books

I agree with Thick's suggestions.

I would also recommend the book "Rick's Licks" by Rick Gratton. That sounds like what you're looking for to some degree. There are some clips on his website so you could check it out for yourself.

http://www.rickgratton.com

OH YEAH - thick & derek NAILED a couple om THAT 1!!!

4 more [representations] of 2 of those guys [playing]:

Kim Plainfield - Bill Connors' "Double Up" & "Assembler" discs...&...

Rick Gratton - "Paul DeLong & (RG) Live at the Percussion Institute of Technology" (PIT/MI) vid!!!! RG's a bit of a "cornball" in this vid, as he's havin' fun w it, but he DEF KIX A**!!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2003 04:12 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

Stone's Stick Control is the classic. Here's my take on this idea of books...

Find and build yourself around the "great drum books" but limit yourself to only a few. Before thinking, "I got this book down...burp...now another", ask yourself, "How do I measure whether I have this book down?"
Take Stone's Stick Control; you could work in that book for a lifetime if you really take the exercises and vary them. Take the "concepts" and make them your own, ala Gadd's 50 Ways.
Practice them at different tempos and create your own patterns. Get the learning from head-to-heart.
If you have a really good book(s), it should be a guiding foundation to your creativity. Just practicing the exercises with hand-foot combinations will make your head spin.
Today, there is a proliferation of learning materials like never before. Look at the curriculum of what is taught at PIT, Berklee, and other academies. Where do you want to go? Have you narrowed it down yet? Set realistic goals and realistic evaluation?
What the guy did here in HOD is the way to go. It took a lot of you know what to post a sample of his playing in this forum, especially after saying he could blow like Vinnie for hours. WOW! But, youthful zeal...I love it! Look at the feedback he got. That's where it's at...feedback from guys who know what is good.

It all really comes down to how we measure ourselves doesn't it as to whether we "have it down" or not. If you want to be a local hero playing classic rock tunes each Fri-Sun night in the local Holiday Inn bar, well, cool! If you want to play with a major act, record, and tour...well, cool! How you go about achieveing those ends will determine how you plan your routine and the vision that drive you. IMO.

Nice post, Pocket.

Books that 1 might want to start off w/ [not u, LP [img]wink.gif[/img] ]:

Jim Chapin's "Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer"
Ted Reed's "Synchopation"
Geo. Lawrence Stone's "Stick Control"
Garwood Whaley, "Fundamental Studies for Snare Drum"
Peter Erskine - "Master Classes - Drum Concepts & Techniques"
Joe Morello - "Master Studies"

more advanced:

LP... GARY CHESTER's "NEW BREED" is a pleasant little mama-frocker [& i think there might even be a "NB #2"]..., as is Marco Minnemann's Extreme Interdependence [w/ consultation from Virgil & RGratton - geez]...
Also, Weckl's more advanced systems books - but i'll betchoo awreddy HAVE those, dontcha; & if'n ya DON't, well...u deserve a good beatin' w/ a pair a' "multi-rods!" [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 28, 2003 03:41 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

lol.....no u guessed it i have all the weckl stuff!!! its a shame hes never put out a proper book rather than play-along stuff,....and virgil for that matter although he said that he is working on some books.

thanks for the suggestions guys.....i'll go buy what i can!

One last thing...pop in Physical Graffiti and play along to Kashmir for a little grounding on planet groove, time, balance, motion, and feel after some of that extreme interdependance synergistic multi-tasking polyrhythmic subdivided...I just might be going insane VOl 3 kinda book [img]eek.gif[/img]

That was for you FUSE man!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 28, 2003 09:25 PM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>

Great info on the books! I need to pick some of that stuff up.

One word regarding books...don't play 'em the way they look. Make the contents come alive by playing the exercises musically. Specifically throw in the (gasp!) unwritten accent and cresendos and decresendos.

When I started studying with Dave, I was really surprised that there were no books, no notes nothing on paper. Everything was just being generated from his mind. He actually made me see after a ba-zillion years of playing that much of what I was doing was pretty clinical sounding (like I was playing exercises from a book!).

He made me focus on making whatever I was playing sound musical...all these years I thought I was playing musically but compared to the master...it was pretty stale.....

....still learning after all these years...

fuse,

excellent book choices. Might I add David Garibaldi's "Future Sounds."

The most insane books I've seen is Gavin Harrison has 3 books out now. I don't have any of them.
Chaffee's books are good too. I have the same problem with trying to figure them out, with pages/pages of exercises. Have both his tapes, too. Sort of dry, but extremely useful.
Kim Plainfield's book is very cool, as well as anything Garibaldi has out. If you can find someone who can make the Syncopation book "swing" for you and make it musical, it has nothing but gems in it. Stick Control as well....so much, so little time to make them all one's own!
Doug Tann has some insane things happening too! (3 books out) Hope that helps. Oh, you do have Steve's video?
Spizzknckr

Stone's Stick Control;Rick Latham's Advanced Funk Studies;and i have most exercises(photocopied from my 1st teacher)Peter Magadini's syncopation exercises.I am still after 15-16 years workin out of Gary Chester's New Breed book.Still kickin my ass.Presesntly working out of Dom Famularo's "It's your Move",which is one of the best books ive ever seen;especially if u want to focus on technique and improve freedom of facility.I start my few students with Stone's book&Dom's book,plus a massive folder of photocopied exercises from MD(that incudes concepts&exercises from Alan Dawson[coordination&rudiment applications];Gary Chaffee[linear drumming];Steve Smith[implied metric modulation];Peter Erskine[a whole slew of 1980's articles on jazz drumming];Joe Morello[tons'o' sticking control exercises].And many more.In fact MD has been a massive well of education,the ongoing drumlesson.I plan on getting John Riley's Bop Drumming books;the newer Erskine books(he writes sooo damn well),and when im ready(10 years im thinking)any Latin books,as im using left foot pedals[extra snare/wood block]for ostinato patterns.Want to check that Johhny Rabb 'Free-Hand' technique book.Would love to see books about Tony William's ride technique,trad grip finger control,or a dedicated book about traditional grip.Oh also gonna get that Colin Bailey Bass Drum technique book.I have predetermined practicing sessions with all of the above,but it is determined by the gig im on,or just shedding.So much good info.Love to find out Tony's list of books he worked out of when he was(is)a child genius......much love and respect........beats........

YES, beats...i 4got to mention Pete Magadini's "Musicians' Guide to Polyrhythms, Vol 1 & 2" [i have vol 2]...
...& i believe DW has some new stuff out that's actually some stuff charted out as related to the diff styles, altho 1 of em is sopmewhat of a "beginners" type book, but it is nicely done nevertheless...u r right, LP, i think they're still called "the Ultimate Play Along[s]," or something like that...
Beats - u studied w/ Pete? That's cool... - ? 4 ya...did Pete Mag. play w/ Henry Mancini at any time during his career, say around '79, '80, or '81? Because i'm fairly sure i met him w/ Mancini in a hotel lobby elevator when i was a youngster...tryin to remember....

I worked out of his books,and went to a clinic,and met him there.But [img]frown.gif[/img] never had classes w. him.And yes according to a page i have he was Mancini's only touring drummer (what a sweet gig that would have been!).Im willing to bet that u indeed met the master himself,if he had a moustache,then it was def. him.....luck guy!......muchos love ....beats..p.s.>My first teacher studied a whole summer w. Peter and Jack Mouse(who i studied with 2 summers later) at a Canadian Jazz Camp in Saskatchewan.Funny thing is i couldnt define the meaning of polyrhythm to anyone properly,but its important in your vacabulary>lol,go figure.

You can add all the Chafee series books to list of standard texts. Charles Wilcoxen's, "Modern Rudimental Swing Solos For The Advanced Drummer" is nice little book. I like to play this book at two-three stick heights-1" for grace notes, 3" for unaccented notes, and 6" for accented notes. "Portraits In Rhythm" by Anthony Cirone is a good snare book for developing meter, touch, control at various tempos.

After fully learning some of the concepts of each of these books, I like to throw it all into the blender and mix and match. Put a little bit of the linear stuff with the polyrhythms, throw some rudiments in there, a little dab of New Breed and you get...one twisted beat!

Palmerlouie-Just taking a guess here, Do you have the first Weckl video? He gives a nice little rundown on New Breed.

Also, you guys might want to send a HOD inspection team to the northeast. Apparently there is a high proliferation of Blushda in these parts. Saw a kid the other day standing in line at Tower with a copy of "Believe It" and a stick bag. As you know this is a key ingredient for the creation of Blushda. I myself have some, but I only use it when danger is iminent.
(sorry guys I just had to)

Peaace

Pocket,

I've been getting my students right into the Weckl play alongs and sort of teaching them on a 'need to know' bases. In other words, what do they need to know to make it through song #1. This gets them making music immediately. When they get the tune down we'll record the tracks with the V-drums and I'll give them an audio-CD of their work. This seems to keep them highly motivated.

In the past, I always got them into the rudiments and serious reading (the way I started) but the majority of my students seem to lack the discipline to do the grunt work. I will add that as we move along in the lessons and they want to do more and more complex fills etc. I can introduce the more legit rudiments and advanced techniques because at that point they seem to realize that to get to the cool stuff they're going to have to get into serious side of the art.

beats [sorry to be carryin' on our own little 'sub-topid/'division', guys, but it's kinda related [img]wink.gif[/img] ]:

I did INDEED meet Mancini & many of his band members [incldg Pete!] in the lobby of a major hotel at the time in downtown Jackson, MS, of all places!! I was in a local club across the street from the hotel w/ 1 of my best friends at the time, James; & he & I had walked across the street to the hotel [cant remember its exact name now - Ramada? Hilton? Hyatt?] to make a phone call to our folks' to let them know what was up. After running into the guys in the lobby [they had just come in from performing a concert at a local arena in town], we then went in the elevator w/ them [us 2 & about 8-10 of them!] & took it up to their floor, where Pete went in his room & came out & gave me a pair of his signature sticks, a practice pad, & autographs from Henry & Pete...oh, yeah, & a coupla catered sandwiches that a few of the guys weren't gonna eat!!
I was around 16 or 17 at the time [the drinking age there at that time was 18.] They had college nights at that club, "the Lamar;" & we'd take a permanent marker to the tops of our hands & smudge it to make it look legit in the dull light & crowded lobby of the place. We'd show our ID's to the bouncer at the door, then we'd grab a 3/4-empty plastic cup of beer that people would end up leaving on top of the big trash containers just inside the front doors [u couldnt take the beers outside], & walk past the front desk just on the outside of the small-but-mighty crowd/line that'd be surrounding it; & hold up our hands, & make the beer cup obvious to complete the illusuon [deception] - worked EVERY time, back then. [Needless to say, 1/2 the time i'd be feelin pretty good by club's closing]...

Anyway [i digressed] - I was thrilled to meet them because i knew who Mancini was from all his movie scores like the Pink Panther, etc etc etc...
It's a GREAT story, what a memory; more to tell, but too long to go into right now...maybe i'll tell ya more about it sometime...My folks still have the stix & pad packed away somewhere...maybe i should inquire... [img]wink.gif[/img] Anyways, didnt mean to digress & bore the rest of ya... [img]wink.gif[/img] - I'll shut up now...
[maybe i should change my forum name to "Wink" (Martindale), as in the old talk show host when i was a kid] - cant help it...it's this spastic prob i've been having, ESP at this hour!!... [img]wink.gif[/img]
Peace!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 30, 2003 02:41 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

pocket...

i usually wind up giving them realistic rock. most 13 to 17 year olds are into blink, sum 41, korn, limp biskit or rap. realistic rock applies to all of it.

if they can get that down, in time smoothly then we move on. most can't even do that well enough in time with tone.

for jazz if they get into that i like jim chapins book. both of these are good starter because they are layed out progressively, and linearly with the right spacings of notes.

visually things line up better than some other books. they also focus on basic pulses that can be counted without too much trouble and to me command of subdivisions is the only foundation that is manditory.

you can get away with crappy technique for awhile but not time.

once they can read i like running lessons from tunes they bring in and make them master all the little things, say a flam, double stroke rolls, whatever is in the tune.

i find it's easier to get them to shed on things when they have a goal rather then just giving them more exercises.

for videos i like chad smiths, and tommy aldridges.

they are basic but fun. tons of attitude.

chris perra

I find that with total beginners it is very quick to get them to play full strokes with a nice rebound technique and good grip. They have not got into any bad habits just yet!

From there I get them to play along with a CD bassline playing whole notes, half notes, and quarter notes hand to hand. This gets then LISTENING to (and locking in with) something else right away. Next we look at various rhythms in turn and always apply them to the kit right away:

Reading 1/4s and rests -- 1/4 note grooves
Reading 1/4s 1/8ths and rests -- grooves using those rhythms.

From there I move into marking out song structure with cymbal crashes, fills leading up to those resoloution points etc.

EVERYTHING is done to either a click or a CD playalong and the idea is to apply the material right away in a 'musical' situation (or at least a facsimile therof)

This is the starting point for most of my beginner students.

Speaking of NEW...with all the acumulated wisdom in this forum, I have to ask this question;

If you were to teach a new student in junior high- motivated, sharp, consistent...where would you start?

With all the info out today on technique, what book(s) would lay a foundation that when he was 40, he would say, "That first teacher I had gave me a great foundation when I was a kid."
Also, what video(s) for the new student about 13 years old?

Speaking of NEW...with all the accumulated wisdom in this forum, I have to ask this question;

If you were to teach a new student in junior high- motivated, sharp, consistent...where would you start?

With all the info out today on technique, what book(s) would lay a foundation that when he was 40, he would say, "That first teacher I had gave me a great foundation when I was a kid."
Also, what video(s) for the new student about 13 years old?

[Not that it matters [img]wink.gif[/img] ], but, 'nice posts,' CP & DF, [anyway]...[couldn't've stated it better than that]...
...yet another reason why this is a 'really cool' forum...