Aquamist?

Is that the name of Jackson water injection kit? Anyway, I was looking at the specs they had on their page and it said it lowers temps 69 to 100 degrees. I believe it hooks to the windshield wiper fluid container.

So, my question is to this highly knoweledgable group: would there be a performance benefit to using one these with the Hondata, larger injectors and 10psi+ boost set up?

I realize you can tune out the detonation with the Hondata, but would that aquamist system cooling propeties be useful in a high pressure set-up. Would it really sort of work as a psuedo intercooler?

I just can't remember anyone trying one with the Hondata - but if it actually offers that much lower cooling benefits it seems it could add more horsepower.

Oh, yeah, doesn't it spray through the intake? That's what I was thinking.

I mean, no one with a Hondata really should be having problems with detonation, but Hondata doesn't cool 69 to 100 degrees lower, and that is what seems interesting about using it.

I have the JR water injection (Aquamist relabeled) and I'm running an EFI PMS with the JR upgrade crank pulley. The nozzle for the kit actually taps directly into the intake manifold. I don't think it adds any big HP gains, but keeping things a little cooler should provide more protection at higher psi and higher temps. And your valves should be kept nice and steam cleaned [img]wink.gif[/img] .

As I recently mentioned, the JR WI on a 12 psi JRSC integra (>9:1CR) yielded 22 whp after all tuning was said and done.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As I recently mentioned, the JR WI on a 12 psi JRSC integra (>9:1CR) yielded 22 whp after all tuning was said and done.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, 22 whp is fairly significant in the world of imports.

That's good news though. Cause I may die of old age before someone posts dyno numbers of their home made jrsc intercoolers.

Cotay, can you please give more info on this. I'm using it on my GSR at 10psi and stock timing and will soon be going to a hondata after christmas.

BTW: When ever I pull my plugs, they are white on the tips, I know that usually means detonation, but could it be because of the water/alcohol mix?

The last time I checked my timing it was like 14-15 degrees.

those are great results. What else was changed in conjunction with the water injection that helped yield the horsepower? It wasn't simply a result of slapping it on I'm assuming?

Also, what were the base numbers that the increase started from when you tuned? Was it well tuned to start with, or was perhaps part of the increase better tuning of the setup and the water injection?

I'm not trying to discount your results, and in fact, I'd love to see them myself. I'm at 9 psi, and have tuned with my PMS and the H20 injection. I gained 20 HP tuning, but I had a slipping belt up top that had been changed in between and the PMS was a new factor.

Maybe the difference is also that you're at 12 psi and perhaps the additional heat increase factor was hurting to begin with?

Just want to understand more and share [img]smile.gif[/img] .

cpa: How can I get the map that you are running at 9psi and the water injection?
I was planning on the PMS or Hondata, not sure yet though. What kind of power are you putting out on your car with 20 extra HP from the water injection?
How much is the PMS system with everything I need minus the injectors, and where is the best place to get it?

I'll back up a step and include the setup:

b18c w/ wiseco pistons/eagle rods
Hondata 2b w/ RC 440s
Kami header
JRSC w/ 3.8" nose pulley and endyn stepper pulley

The car had been previously dyno tuned w/ only the nose pulley and made 225 whp. a/f was 12.2-12.3 across the board. Timing was extreme as the low comp. pistons didnt seem to mind(33-35 deg TOTAL advance in boost columns).

The car was then retuned with the same setup and the stepper added. a/f was retuned and timing remained the same. Midrange power was up and about 10-15 lb/ft (177 total!) above the previous setup but peak hp was only 2-3 more (sorry, no IAT data log was available), but im sure you can guess the intake temps.

Finally on the last two runs the water injecton was hooked up after all tuning was said and done. We changed absolutely nothing. As I said 22 whp was gained, all above 6k where it began to fall. Total whp, I believe, was 256 hp SAE.

Since then the engine was resleeved to 84.5 mm, decked .020" to gain the .030" piston to head sweet spot. This also raised the comp to 10.1:1.
We are dynoing in 2 weeks at ISA in tacoma washington and should see 280-290 whp and 200 lb/ft.
Hope that helps.

one more thing: the WI had literally NO effect on the a/f.

cotay-

That was extremely helpful. So, not to oversimplify, but it sounds like the HP gain was probably due simply to the ability to reduce the heat from the extra boost. I keep thinking whether I want to add a stepper (I already have the JR crank pulley) as well since I'm running 440s, a PMS unit and water injection. Sounds like it is possible with the right tuning, and your results are great. My block and compression are stock though.

I had similar results to you without your second bump in boost, with about 221 HP, and TQ about 155-165 and A/F about 12.2-12.4 across the entire RPM range.

Seems to be an amazing amount of advance timing even with the lower compression, but I'm no expert. My PMS usually shows advance under boost at around 15-16 degrees. I have it set to retard 4 degrees from stock above 4,000 RPM.

speedy -

I would suggest you contact dynotuner.net when and if you're interested in the PMS unit. The unit list price is $799 and you'll need a GM map sensor, around $80. If you want Interacq it's $299 assuming you have a laptop it will work with and don't have to buy that also. I don't think you'll find anyone selling for any less than list.

CPA:
Just to clarify, this wasnt my car, but a good friend of mine who I helped build and tune this motor from the start.

As far as my own car goes, i was so amazed with the drivability of the jrsc and hondata, I've parted out my 211 whp N/A ls/vtec and invested in a JRSC and all the goodies. We're installing it next week.

One more thing. If you are using the factory p72 ecu, you stock timing at 0 mm/hg is around 28 deg total after 6000 rpm. So with 4 less deg, your advance should be about 24 deg.

I cannot wait to see the dyno results AFTER the shortblock rebuild...

Timing advance under full boost should also change by load condition. This is what I see when going to full boost from freeway cruise in say 4th gear. I haven't tried to see what it does from startup rowing through gears.

Can someone please tell me if the water/alcohol mix in the water injection will turn the plugs white?
Or is that detonation?

White tips would be a sign of a lean condition. White spots would be indicative of detonation. Also be aware that I've mistaken my plugs for white while outside, but once I got them inside under a lamp they were more of a sandy color which is what you want to have.

So, is it safe to say that it's better to go with the H2O injection kit or N2O for cooling or the other way around?? I know that with the cooling there WILL be a small increase of power. Any comments/opinions on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Moad'Ib:
So, is it safe to say that it's better to go with the H2O injection kit or N2O for cooling or the other way around?? I know that with the cooling there WILL be a small increase of power. Any comments/opinions on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

H2O injection will allow you to run more advanced timing, may add some power due to that and the cooler outlet temps of the blower.

N2O on the other hand, you'll still want reduced timing, but you'll more than make up for it because the N2O is a lot colder than water + ice, and you're adding more oxygen to the cylinders to burn. A 25 shot through the blower would be like running close to a 50 shot without the blower as far as power gained. A good dyno tune is in order for this setup!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by exciv2000:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Moad'Ib:
[qb]So, is it safe to say that it's better to go with the H2O injection kit or N2O for cooling or the other way around?? I know that with the cooling there WILL be a small increase of power. Any comments/opinions on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

H2O injection will allow you to run more advanced timing, may add some power due to that and the cooler outlet temps of the blower.

N2O on the other hand, you'll still want reduced timing, but you'll more than make up for it because the N2O is a lot colder than water + ice, and you're adding more oxygen to the cylinders to burn. A 25 shot through the blower would be like running close to a 50 shot without the blower as far as power gained. A good dyno tune is in order for this setup![/QB]</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

No doubt that we will be running either setup on the dyno to tune it to it's capacity. I was just wondering which one would be more effective and less harm to the engine. Some people are saying that the nos will ONLY increase the power more than the cooling effect. I know that it wont raise the boost level as others have mentioned. I am just looking to cool the thing down and not make a crazy amount of power when the NOS turns on to cool the charger. If the N20 wont put a sudden jolt on the engine then I'll go that route.... but if the water injection can closely rival the N20 then I might head that way instead since its less inexpensive in the long run.

Thanks for your comments. Please keep them coming.

a guy I know with a wet kit 35 shot on an 8 PSI JRSC was showing 12 PSI while spraying. Not sure if that's commonplace or not, but I wouldn't mind seeing my needle go further over to the right myself [img]biggrin.gif[/img]