What U All Workin On?

My awesome wife belatedly picked up the new MD 'Steve Smith/Superchops/Technique' issue.Fantastic job this month from the mag.Just wonderin in lieu of this issue,what are u all workin on in yer drumming at the moment?Are u workin on band material,workin yer hands?,workin a specific section of a book?,tryin a new lick out?refining concepts?,lookin for new setup ideas,workin kick patterns,working on a new style?Just curious where everyone is at in their present day drumset studies.............................beats.

All of the above. I have a rigorous practice routine that I work on throughout the entire day, and I concentrate on the kit for a good 4+ hours a day (sometimes up to 8-10 on the weekends). I work rudiments and hybrids with both hands and feet through the day at work, I work independence exercises, jazz, latin, african, fills, interdependence, speed, dexterity, double bass. I basically work on everything that I could possibly use throughout the week, and I split it up between a few days and rotate that pattern. Lotta work, but a lot of pay-off.

With my classical percussion studies here at school, I've had so little time to practice actual kit stuff. I do, however, attempt to work my hands every day. It sounds obvious, but doing all the classical snare stuff really helps your set playing. In fact, Timp and Marimba really help too. As far as hand development, I've lately been doing exercises involving moving between singles, doubles, and multiples. I'm experiencing frustration particularly in the left hand trad grip, moving from singles to multiple bounces. It's so hard to keep the stick moving in a straight arc. I find that the grip sorta goes to shit. Has anyone had any experience with this? As far as the little time I have for kit practice, I'm getting into chart interpretation for all sorts of situations. I gotta work someday! Transcribing big band figures and set-ups is something I'm getting into. I also enjoy coming up with independence exercises (jazz-wise) from Stick Control. Definitely though, I'm freakin' obsessed with my hands. I simply refuse to play with ugly technique, as ridiculous as that sounds.

Aww ya Manos,i hear you on the hard work-great payoff feeling.I posted awhile ago my practice routine when i had a rehearsal space of my own.It was very rigoruous,but man did i ever see great results,some results subtle,some obvious.Lately, because ive had to move from that space,and have not found an affordable lockout space(my kits are at my friends space,where i play in his band),my routine has been cut in half,AND ITS KILLING ME!!LOL!My developement on some of the things ive been working on has been slow to work on.So at home ive been working ALOT with my hands.Ive got cymbal silencers so ive also been workin my jazz-ride-pulse alot.But cuz of my restricted time at the kit,i am just getting my hands better....................................thx for the response...anyone else?............beats..............

Hey Nikk,its too bad we cant see yer hands to help out with grip maintenence.I have some ideas/theories about why yer stick is not moving the way u want it to.But i need to find out some info.What dynamic,tempo level is the stick crapping out at,at which stick height are u executing the stroke.Is the 'multiple'bounces u speak of doubles,or triplets,or buzz rolls.Do you play classical snare w. trad. grip?What sticks do you use?How big/small are yer hands? If u could elaborate in finer detail whats happening, i think some things to think about can be posted for you..................beats.

I got that new MD issue..Currently I'm working out the excersises ....As for current books, I'm studying out of Zoro's book ,The Afro-Cuban rhythms for drumset, and Chester's New Breed..

Nice one beats!

Well, since I don't play drums for a living, I don't have the time I need.

I do Stick Control stuff on the carpet as I keep watch over my kids whenever they play around. On the kit, I strive to keep healthy whatever I already know, attempting to make the groove/pocket feel good. Working on my own ideas, with metronome. I also use Kim Plainfield's method, as in working on his Latin stuff, tom-tom exercices etc... I use his ideas and build on them, making it my own.

I also listen to a lot, I mean A L-O-T of music...

And yes, I do find myself in the need of a good drum lesson... [img]wink.gif[/img]

Beats et al...

here're as many attributes to my left hand technique as I can conjure...
I've lately made the adjustment of keeping my index finger alongside and curled atop the stick at all times. In addition, I'm trying to never let the thumb leave the index finger. My hope is that the stick will move sraighter in doing all this. It's helped a bit I think. Nonetheless, I can't seem to achieve in the left hand trad grip the supple, refined bounces produced by my right hand. I used to be of the belief that the very tip of the index finger had to always be on the stick (my thinking was that the tip of the finger was the bounciest.) By the way, when I say bounces, I'm speaking of multiples like three or four, ala the concert roll. I have big hands, I'm using either Vic Firth SD1s or Graham Johns' signature concert model from Cooperman. Any suggestions would rule..

im currently practicing to Billy Asbaugh's "In The Way" and Bozzio's "Rhythm of Hell"

"In The Way" is a 16th note groove w/ 32nd note fills and a nice jazzy/prog feel.

"Rhythm of Hell" tests my speed a bit but with single strokes

I'm working on LISTENING to the musicians that I'm playing with and am constantly sorting out my TIME, FEEL and MUSICIANSHIP. Playing ridiculously fast single strokes with my hands and 5's and 7's with my feet whilst playing 3's in one hand and balancing a tray of drinks with the other doesn't interest me in the slightest. I don't and will NEVER get booked based on how fast my chops are or what 'interdependance' (or whatever the latest terminology is) I can do. I WILL however get booked if I can make the musicians I am playing with feel comfortable and if my ideas are CREATIVE and MUSICAL rather than excersices out of a book that I have meticulously practiced in my bedroom that I am playing, simply because I havr worked on them and can execute them.

Yepper Dazzler!

Serving and making music... That's what it's all about. That's what I strive for as well.

Although, nothing wrong with having fun practicing the flashy stuff too if that's what you're into, it may be used within its proper context (as in clinics). There is a time for everything... It can also be a nice personal challenge. Should it be used inproperly though, you just won't get calls.

Currently working on various odd meter stickings on my feet, while playing backbeats in four or within the odd phrasing. Also playing fill ins for the doubles on my feet.
Working on various clave rhythms on my left foot and practicing three way independance against it, RLfoot etc... And playing triplet rates against them as well.
As far as books go, Marco's book is the best book out there for getting the independance thing.

Our expression of creativity is very short-sided when we do not have the physical skills to play in challenging musical situations. I read some comments that seem to be taking a shot at people having and pursuing having great physical capabilities. I have never met or heard a drummer ie: a chambers or weckl or hernandez
and on and on who has ever said that it is not important to push and push your physical abilities to a new level because it enables you too express yourself freely in what ever manner and musical situation that you desire(not just clinics I might add)I can think of dozens of GREAT drummers who all continue to practice hard to be able to continue to change and adapt they do not sit on their laurels and say oh that is good enough for me. In fact the whole area of time and feel and taste are much more mental and emotional issues than physical and if you ask many guys these elements come through repetition of playing and are somewhat inherent. The physical stuff as I just heard Weckl state,takes working your butt off it does not come by wishing it. I listen to and admire Colaiuta and phillips and weckl and Bozzio and Donati and Lang and Minneman and smith and hernandez because they are ground breakers and can play with different guys in different situations and continue to want to grow and they no it takes more than feel and time to do what they do of course,and they have I am sure had to practice independence exercises and speed also to accomplish what they have.

Digital

Good points Digital,

You're right, not only in Clinics... Like in a Planet X type gig is another example.

I know you'll agree that there are other dimensions of drumming. Dazzler didn't say that one should not practice hard. I think he was simply pointing to other aspects that must be worked on as much, if not more.

It is also fair to say that, with only 24 hours in a day, one must make a choice as to what he'll concentrate on when practicing. You spend too much time in one dimension, you have less time to work on the rest. Balance between ALL dimensions should be emphasised.

Won't mention his name but I have had interesting conversations with a keyboard player that has played many times with Vinnie, Dennis Chambers etc. What really floors him in a drummer is his spontenious musical interaction. How the drummer listens, holds back and talks back musically. Those ideas won't necessary be technically demanding, but musically delighting.

Did Jeff Porcaro work less hard because he had less chops and tricks? He worked hard on other things and some have rightfully called him "the drummer with the golden grooves"... LOL!!!

I am not saying that you're not aware of all that either, I am simply commenting.

Peace,

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I agree with you Beat Hit, I guess there needs to be a greater clarifying of points, because all aspects of drumming are all neccesary if we want to be multi-dimensional. If you do not have very good technique and fairly killer chops you will not play with the majority of major jazz and fusion players out there that is my main point. Of course feel and time and taste are very important but they are not an island unto themselves. In fact it takes much more physical labor to develop excellent technique and ORIGINAL chops than to have good time and feel many great players have said so, that is why feel and time to a degree are internal qualities. As Weckl said you HAVE to practice hard to develop the facility so you can get to the point where playing in a challenging setting becomes second nature. And Jeff porcaro and others had their niche and they excelled in it but Jeff was not a major player in the jazz-fusion realm could he have, maybe. And if you ask many guys Porcaro and Vega had an inert quality that did not come through practicing feel over and over much of it was natural they could sit down and nail it. IMO the best way to develop good time and feel and develop dynamics is through repetition of gigging(my experience in college anyways) not practicing. Vinnie is wonderful because he has an inert sense of taste when playing which is why he is so musical BUT if he did not have great technique and killer chops and had not practiced hard to develop those qualities he would not be able to pull off what his twisted(genius) mind thinks of at the time. This can be said of other players also.

Again good points Beat Hit I agree with much of what you said and it sounds like you live in somewhat of the same reality I do, having a couple kids and still finding time to practice and play like you want to. Good Luck Man. But nothing compares to having a great family. My kids are better than music anyday, would not of said that in college years ago, had to learn a few things.

Regards Digital [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Practicing independence exercises and building speed doesn't mean you can't play well with the music, either. As I've always said, you can't decorate a house without having a proper foundation and solid structure to begin with.

It's very important to keep a balance. Sure, Johnny Rabb has amazing technique that enables him (and Adam Dietch) to accurately emulate a drum machine for D & B rhythms. Dennis, Vinnie, Dave and company can kill you with chops, Elvin can swing rings around you... but the music should always be king.
I don't worry about reaching the drummer in the crowd, frankly. I've been bored by Mike Stern and floored by Jason Finn because of the emotional connection. I admire musicians who serve the music first.
This being said, technique servesthe servant. Bonham was one of the only drummers of his day who had true command of his feet. Tony Williams killed on all his shit. And Elvin,is loose and a master. Bottom line, you can't play, you can't say.
The idea is all. You must have the vocabulary to speak your heart.

Yes Josh, but Virgil does not have enough mouths to sing his drum parts! lol

There are drummers like Richie Hayward, John Molo and many others who just have this unexplainable fire and intensity to their grooves. I saw Fred Coury with Cinderella, who by the way are excellent live, and he had that sound. It's basically the sound of drummer who is tight and very conifidant in what they play. But I also think it's a power to summon the rhythm gods.

Just got Weckl's Practicing & Technique videos, as well as Garibaldi's video. Dave is so smooth it's ridiculous. So inspiring to see and witness.

I love the funk stuff--the pop/rock groove with that extra flare. I pick & choose from the videos for inspiration and create my own exercises. Funk has an impact that is intense for me...so I lean towards that expression. Yet, I love a loose feel. What's great about getting to a point of confidence it incorporating your own set of dynamics. I guess that is art!

Hey Flam, do not know if you have seen the TUDW video from Australia, the one with Virg and Weckl. Speaking of exercises to work on, Virgil gives some exercises of layered grooves as he calls them. They are very complex but yet they groove and are very musical "what do you know"!
These patterns can be applied in band situations it just takes a little more effort than usual and of course in a solo context.

One such exercise is using rudiments in tandem playing them in unorthodox ways. He plays a double parradiddle using his left foot and left hand and plays at the same time a single parradiddle using his right hand on two different floor toms and his right foot on bass.
Then he inverts the parradiddles on both sides to give it a different sound then swithches the double to the right and the single to the left.
These patterns create very complex yet grooving and uniquely musical sounds. And of course it greatly develops your dexterity and fluidity in playing more challenging parts. I am working my way up to these starting with simpler patterns( it will be awhile for sure before I get to those more whacked patterns!) but I love the different dimensions(sounds) they bring to the drumset. This is what I love about guys like Virg and a few others they not only have great physical abilities but they have great imaginations, their minds are always searching out something new and fresh sounding, which we need in drumming.

Digital

The debate on chops over music or music over chops will go on forever......but what makes the handfull of famous drummers that we all admire is that they do BOTH. and why not.....why does everyone always assume its one or the other.......put some time and effort in and have both then u will get booked because you have great chops or your time and musicality is spot on.......!!!!

people often say....."oh im just a groove drummer".....and often its cause they cant do anything else!

You are right Palmerlouie on both subjects and a big AMEN to the last post.

Digital

Hey Digital,

Virgil's grooves are amazing. I would have to say the only book that can help with these extreme concepts is Marco's book.

I've been working on doing left side stickings, doubles with the left hand and foot in 16ths, then playing grooves with it, and triplets.
I also mess with a inverted paradiddlediddle on my left ande play 6-8 grooves with it.
Also, i like to pick a riff from my band----all our riffs are in compound odd meter. I'll play an 11 footpattern, and groove against it with an over the bar ride pattern, while playing backbeats in the odd phrase, and also playing 4/4 backbeats.

As far as reversing everything--------that takes a lot of time.

I do have a new 4 bar doublebass routine.. Play regular 8th note on hat, and 2 & 4 on the snare. then play a measure with the feet in 16ths, RRLL, next measure, RLLR, then LLRR, and LRRL. Then apply fill ins on the R doubles, then fill ins on the L doubles, then fill in all doubles.
This is helping me execute foot patterns more evenly. And I practice it heel up and heel down.

My 11 Riff is a 16th note phrase in 11, played on the feet as RLL RLL RLL RL. I play a ride pattern of 8th notes, then quarter notes, and 1e&'s with the main snare backbeat on beat 4 of the 11 phrase.
I also created a variation as RLLRRL RLL and rlrl 32nds, then I fill in the RLLRRL like R LrL RlR L play RLL and rlrl on the end. It's a fun intricate pattern, but I can play it better with a Right Foot lead, so go figure.


I'm all about creating beats for my band and soloing, as I'm a more is more type of guy!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FlamTriplet:
Currently working on various odd meter stickings on my feet, while playing backbeats in four or within the odd phrasing. Also playing fill ins for the doubles on my feet.
Working on various clave rhythms on my left foot and practicing three way independance against it, RLfoot etc... And playing triplet rates against them as well.
As far as books go, Marco's book is the best book out there for getting the independance thing.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Akira's "Interdependence" Video isnt to shabby either [img]wink.gif[/img]

I am with you Flam on the trying to get more comfortable with the interdependence grooves, as in setting up a pattern with the feet, yet being able to vary the pattern but having the dexterity to fill in(with the hands) while keeping the varied groove(very difficult) going. That is where I see the greatness in Virg and Minneman they being able to freely fill in while keeping the groove going. And being able to lead with either hand when filling in which is so darn difficult especially when you are trying to keep those feet right. Man it is frustrating just talking about it "oh well" that is partly what makes it enjoyable, pushing yourself till you start getting the hang of it(mastering it will take alot longer). By the way I know Virg is working on putting out a couple of instructional books in the very near future, should be some challenging material to say the least.

Best regards Digital

Yeah Bozz,

I have to say that video is one of my favorites. every ten seconds is a new idea to schredd on. [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img]

You guys all sound like you're still young. I'm 49 and have been at this since the age of four. My best advice no matter what kind of practice regimen, routine, whatever...RELAX! Any time you begin to force what you're doing you become counter-productive and it won't matter how much time you practice, it'll suck and you will get into a negative mind-set. Check out all those extremely accomplished players who have gone to study with Freddy Gruber. They were all physical players; Neil Pert, Weckl, Steve Smith, Adam Nussbaum and the list goes on. What they wanted to learn was how to "play" the drums, not work them. Let gravity and physics do the work. Don't "grip" the stcks, guide them. Don't forget, musical expression is the goal no matter what you're playing, Be Bop, Fusion, Country, Hungarian Torture Music, whatever. Whenever you sit down to play at the kit, on a pad, pillow the floor, your thighs; make it a joyful and pleasurable experience. HAVE FUN with it. If you're practicing some dry exercises, mess with it. Play it backwards, upside-down, inside out etc. And RELAX. Reverse the stickings, add accents in unexpected places, play the hand parts in the feet, rest the notes and play the rests. And RELAX some more. The more creative you become in your practice the more creative your musical expression will become.

Here's something; you'll all think I'm a certifiable head case but hear me out. If you ever get a chance to see the Harlem Globetrotters play live in person GO! "But what's this have to do with drums?" you ask. Nothing and everything. Just watching them dribble a basketball one inch off the ground tells a lot about how to play fast finger control singles. It's not the hand, it's in the ball itself with the help of gravity. These guys do a lot of serious 'shedding to do what they do but at the same time it's a labor of love and funny as hell as well.

As to what I work on. Recently, I've been playing all the old hand-foot exercises on a practice pad kit to various sequences. I use a Yamaha DTX and play random songs with and without the rhythm parts, with and without a click. I'll play grooves and solos. Triplets against eighth note time. Duples over 6/8 time. Displaced accents over long musical passages. all sorts of unusual things. Whatever I can come up with. Yes, I do indulge mself with an occasional forray into chopsville, working out things I can't do, slowly and relaxed building speed to where I can play them fast and relaxed.

Happy Drumming.

Hey G I am not 49 but I am 35 not quite a kid and have been playing for about 22 years. I do not think what we were talking about had anything to do with whether we play relaxed or tight or a specific playing style, honestly do not understand where you were deriving your point from. But your points were good and I believe most would agree with you and yes our purpose in practicing is to create music with or without others and even if our tastes differ. I think I am creating music when I play on my own, do not know what you would call it but it sounds fairly good to me.

Beyond HOW we play some of us are inspired by those who are expanding the ability of how we can play and use the drums to make music. I use to find a few ways to play REALLY relaxed years ago but I do not go that route anymore, you know what I mean.

Best regards Digital [img]wink.gif[/img]

That's great G. Don,

But when I play a hip hop beat, i like to phrase in 32nd notes, as well as Nine-tuplets, doing all those fun hand foot patterns that you mention.

I also like to play in 7/8, doing fills playing 5 notes per bar, and subdividing those into triplets(15) or 16ths(20) etc... and playing those fun old hand foot patterns.

This is stuff that i play without forcing myself.

You would think that kids would mention playing fast, but none of here have done that. Although you mentioned it.

I am, however the official fastest all around drummer from the last Warped Tour WFD competition---add the hands and feet and I beat everyone----and I'm the second all around(hands+feet) fastest drummer in the world--recognized by the WFD----of course there are probably many faster than me, but I did go under the clock at official WFD contests.

Anyway, when you practice an exercise, there are SO many ways to enhance it, or permutate it, etc...You know this. But I practice my own things that I (create) or change other's ideas. And things I hear and think of that would enhance my band or my soloing. That's about it, I do what I do, because that's what I want to do. And if what I do sounds like crap, I move on.
To bad Neal Peart studied with Gruber, because I think he fucked up his whole style. And that's what I thought after seeing his DVD. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

Oh yeah, I'm 36, and have been playing for 23. [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/music.gif[/img]

That's great about the WFD but i have a question. Where do you place as far as the WGD... worlds' groovinest drummer. Hmmm, just a thought.....

How's he supposed to respond to that? I'm sure he can groove just fine.

chops doesn't equal bad feel, never has, never will. (shit, does that rhyme?) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Hey,

Sorry about that post, it was kinda lame. It was under the influence of alchohol. I just don't like assumptions.
Anyway,I probably don't place in the WGD. And I don't play with any famous musicians, but I love to play.
Of course being technical is a drummer thing, and in the real world, it doesn't mean much. That's why I have my own band, so I can play a whole bunch of crap that I like that works for our music.

All i was saying was that making the music feel good is important too. I am impressed with techniqiue just as much as the next guy, i love working on it. I wasn't being a jerk or anything, in fact Flam's next post was really cool, props to him for that one, made me wanna eat my words. Technique is great, so is feel and groove, so is musicality. I guess playing over the bar groupings of 17's in 11/16 is just as valid as grooving your ass off, it just depends on how you look at it i guess. I am currently on a groove tangent right now and am a technique basher, but next month i am sure will be back doing the technique thang and dissin' the groove as being too simple, then back to the groove... you get the picture. Props on the post Flam, sorry for sounding like a d*ck!

No man,

You weren't being a $%^&. It was funny.
Grooving is an art, keeping correct tempo, especially when the band leader counts off a wrong one is a challenge.

I just thought my post was a very diarrea of mouth kinda thing.
[img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Right on bro... hey, goes to show drummers do get along better than other musicians. Imagine if this was a guitarists forum... this would've never gotten settled!

Trying to work on something really practical which for me, i am finding, is chart reading. Going though some chart reading work books and some stuff from the "real book" that has some standards in it. Setting up some figures or just playing the melody of the tune on the drums, trying to make it sound like the actual song (to the best of my ability). Then on the technical fun side (not so practical side) i am working on, for example, the Marco Minnemann "Extreme Interdependence" book. I will, for example, not play what is written for the right hand and instead SING the part while playing what is written for all the other limbs. Then i will do the same with the left hand, then right foot, and then left foot. If there are any linear parts i will sing them also while not actually playing it physically but playing the other remaining non-linear parts as written. This really helps me get the parts down because when you vocalize something, well, it is more precise than when you play it. It really helps me to nail the parts because when i add the limb i am singing it totally is tight and in the pocket, my brain knows where to put the notes because i have sung them accurately already. Once i get the pattern down and have sang every part and the pattern sounds right on and grooves then i will play it as written but sing a repeating odd pattern. Example being: singing every 5th sixteenth note or singing every 7th sixteenth note. Like singing the "1" and then the next note would be the "e" of "2" and then the "&" of "3", the "ah" of 4, then "2" and so on (that is if singing every 5th sixteenth note). A kick ass brain-frying thing to do is to sing let's say dotted eighths and at the same time sing every 5th sixteenth note and also sing every 7 sixteenth note. Each of the three patterns will have assigned to it a different sound that i sing to represent it. When the dotted eighth pattern falls in unison with the 5th sixteenth note pattern, it has one specific sound that i sing to represent those falling in unison, when the 5th sixteenth pattern falls in unison with the 7th sixteenth note pattern i have a different sound i sing to represent that one. It goes on from there. It sounds like a total mess, me making all these sounds while playing but it REALLY does a number on the brain. I am really into trying to train my brain to be able to be twisted into knots while i am playing and still not loose the groove, and still hopefully know what is going on. Also i will take the "New Breed" melodies and sing them over complicated patterns. Train the "5th limb"... not THAT ONE, the voice i am talking about!!! Making the brain work overtime is a good thing too.

OK, back to the original topic... I'm working on playing 1&3 on the kick, 2&4 on the snare, 8th notes on the hihats, and making it feel REALLY good. :-)

But just for fun, my friend and I wrote out 5s on left hand, 7s on right hand in two measure groupings, just to see if we could play it. Sounds kind of marchy, but it's kind of fun to count the 5s then the 7s...

Danny

I;m currently working with:

Stick Control By George Stone

New Breed By Gary Chester..

And having a blast!

dw