FYI - JR has a new product available now that is supposed to fix tip in and other midrange problems, called an "Electronic MAP Converter". I ordered one, I'll post after I install it. $179.
Bill
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FYI - JR has a new product available now that is supposed to fix tip in and other midrange problems, called an "Electronic MAP Converter". I ordered one, I'll post after I install it. $179.
Bill
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2kbill:
FYI - JR has a new product available now that is supposed to fix tip in and other midrange problems, called an "Electronic MAP Converter". I ordered one, I'll post after I install it. $179.
Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This and their BTC unit combined hopefully will solve the most common problems for their long suffering customers. And the new customers wouldn't have to suffer at all if they'd package the items in the purchase of new chargers or at the very least as a recommended option. (because of course some people might want to hook up something like the Hondata, and not need to purchase this stuff at all)
This must be the "black box" MAP sensor trick that we (at least the ITR owners) all hoped would be made retroactive for current owners (free or nominal charge). Anything to make a buck...
Directly from JR. It's not on the website yet. If you're interested, call them.
Bill
are they going to retro it for us or what? anyone know, or send an email out?
May I ask where you purchased this?
Or even how you found out about it? I didn't manage to find it on JR's website.
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'98 White Prelude
JRSC
AEM Short Ram
GC's with 450/375 springs
Koni Adj Shocks
DC Sports Ceramic Headers
Rear ST Sway Bar
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batoutahell:
This must be the "black box" MAP sensor trick that we (at least the ITR owners) all hoped would be made retroactive for current owners (free or nominal charge). Anything to make a buck...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah...like they would ever be so concerned.
I have info, from jr.......
the converter is 179$,,
the ITR guys like myself get a pretty good discount, although i can't say how much..
This black box does the same thing as rjaffey TPS mod, just in different ways. i think the TPS mod is causing my car to act crazy at 0vac.. i just took the TPS mod off, but haven't been able to go for a test drive. i think the Tps mod has some ill effects with either my BTC or my Vafc... but who knows, i may drive and it will still do the surge thing that i posted earlier today.
I've had this on now for a month and it is amazing. In 110 degree weather, i have my timing on the ITR at 18 degrees, have the safeguard and BTC both connected at very low settings. Even with the AC on, i get no tip in detonation like i did before the MAP controller. Installation was very easy, only 6 wires and a spacer for the Map sensor connected to a vac line. If you any more questions, just ask.
So I just ordered the MAP converter. I got to thinking about the install and I'm wondering if I should zero out all my VAFC settings before I install it.
What do you guys think?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>the ITR guys like myself get a pretty good discount, although i can't say how much.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They didn't give me a discount. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
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[This message has been edited by newt2 (edited June 26, 2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by newt2:
They didn't give me a discount. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats cause Jackson And moss motors do not stand behind there products. If you bought the SC for your ITR you get screwed!!! Thanks Oscar http://www.newsgeek.net/images/forum/avatar/064.gif
This isn't the same thing as the boost dependent VTEC control unit that I read about months ago, is it? I remember something about how that unit should increase torque and HP a little bit.
Anyway, mine is on the way as well.
lets just say mine is 80$ of the real price of one..
Could someone please help me understand better what the MAP convertor does. Thanks.
What exactly causes the problem? And if taking off the TPS is one solution, why purchase the $179 unit?
Agreed, hopefully the stack of electronic toys doesnt get too high, or you may as well go with something like Hondata.
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1995 Milano Red GSR w/goodies
H/A & H/T Teg Forum Mod
Creeping to the darkside...
For those Type "R" owners here that do NOT know the deal on the MAP mod system from JR yet...
Here it is.
The bad news is that it is NOT free. Although you all were teased with the idea that there would be a "no-cost" upgrade to help produce the HP results that you expected, you have to get it with another product which DOES cost a small amount. The fact is that the MAP mod (simply allowing the MAP sensor to "see" boost creates a faster reacting ECU... thus almost eliminating part-throttle and tip-in detonation issues) is just what the doctor ordered so that "R" owners can reach the HP numbers that they deserve. However, it is packaged with another electronic device that forces the ECU into "Open loop" at ZERO boost so that the peak fuel pressures can be leaned out a bit without affecting the midrange... thus creating more HP for all JRSC equipped cars.
So, simply put: The JR MAP mod will cost $179.00 for most of us JRSC owners. Now, if you are a Type "R" owner and want one... I suggest you call Shawn at JR and cry and wimper alot... this might make your price cheaper.
heheh
Jim
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
[This message has been edited by JRCivic (edited June 28, 2001).]
The MAP mod makes changes to the fuel curve...well I have a VAFC and tuned my a/f mixture allready well for my setup. I don?t think I need this MAP mod shit, correct? The next electronics I buy is for sure a standalone like PMS EFI to get rid of all that piggiback thingies!
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Supercharged ITR?98 @ 5.5psi
BTC unit, Apexi VAFC, K&N short ram intake, skunk2 cam gears, Kamikaze 2.5", ceramic header, Thermal 3" exhaust, RC 310 injectors, Cartech FMU, AEM FPR
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...622&a=12515817
http://www.geocities.com/autitr/myin...l?991952862150
Do you still get any tip in detonation? That's the reason I'm getting it, I have never been able to completely get rid of it. On hot days it still does it unless I increase my fuel pressure and back off the timing even more. On a cold day at high altitude I can run stock timing, but on a hot day I've had to retard it as far as it can go and still raise fuel pressure to get rid of it. I dyno'd it in that condition and I made 161whp, less than stock. I've got it up to 200 once, but it starts getting tip in after about 20 minutes of running that way.
If the MAP controller gets rid of it, I'll be happy. We'll see early next week I guess.
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2000 ITR #219
JRSC, Thermal 3", Kamikazi header, Carsound cat, VAFC, JR intake
On order or awaiting installation: Toda Flywheel, Clutchmasters stage 3, JDM Final drive, JR MAP controller.
I don?t think I have tip-in detonation. BTW: How do you know you have? How feels the car with tip-in detonation?
I can WOT my car after 2 hours hard driving on hot or on cold days with a/c on or off. I did 250 kph on the German Autobahn for 1 hour, sometimes left of the throttle for dumbasses and then WOT again. We live here in 800 meters over the sea-level and sometimes I drive up in the mountains over 2500 meters over sea-level. My car does never stottering or other fu**ing things.
My timing is retard to 14 degrees and my BTC knob is all way left. I have dynoed at 192.5 whp. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
So do you think I have tip-in, I don?t want to damage my engine? I have checked my Spark plugs (NGK PFR7G-11) and they looks very fine and clean! OHHH YES LOOOK, I have Platinum. Everybody says Platinum are bad, but after 10000 kilomters, they look NIZZZZE!
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Supercharged ITR?98 @ 5.5psi
BTC unit, Apexi VAFC, K&N short ram intake, skunk2 cam gears, Kamikaze 2.5", ceramic header, Thermal 3" exhaust, RC 310 injectors, Cartech FMU, AEM FPR
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...622&a=12515817
http://www.geocities.com/autitr/myin...l?991952862150
Doesn't sound like it to me. You'd hear it between 4 and 5 grand under boost. It doesn't FEEL like anything, it's a sparodic ticking noise coming from under the hood.
I don't get it very often anymore but when I do I just cringe and stop using any kind of boost.
Christian,
Check those plugs in another 10000 Kilometers... Platinum plugs will typically only last around 10-12 thousand miles (which would be about 20000 Kilometers tops). The Platinum is soft, and the electrode gets worn down much faster than conventional metals.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
Jim,
So you think it?s better to go with NGK copper plugs, right? I?ve heard they must be changed every 20000 kilomter too. I guess they are a little cheaper. I?ve the PFR7G stock (you guys have the 6 for stock ITR?s) Should I go with an 8 heat range?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The Platinum is soft, and the electrode gets worn down much faster than conventional metals.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Huh????
It's just the opposite!!
The JR "MAP Controller Circuit" arrived today. I'm now mulling over the directions, which look straightforward, but perhaps a bit incomplete for the inexperienced & paranoid installer, like me. For example, there is no suggestion where to mount the box - or if it belongs under the hood or under the dash near the ECU, where all of its connections are to be made. Eight of the 10 pages of instructions are model-specific wiring diagrams.
FYI, here's the intro:
The MAP Controller circuit is a replacement for the original Boost pressure switch and Fuel Enrichment Relay. It will translate MAP pressure into a voltage signal that the factory ECU can understand and allow faster, smoother transition into boost fuel enrichment. It is fully self contained and "potted" for safety from moisture, heat or vibration.
I'll probably try to install it on Saturday.
Bill
So you take out the IAT relay and use that instead. Makes sense, now it'll give more fuel based on pressure instead of some static value that attenuates the air temprature reading. I've read somewhere that the IAT relay advances timing too, which is the main reason we have to retard it so much. May be able to run a little more timing too 9for those of us without BTCs).
I'm still curious how it's going to play with the VAFC, they both mess with the MAP signal.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is fully self contained and "potted" for safety from moisture, heat or vibration.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That means you can put it under the hood.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2kbill:
The JR "MAP Controller Circuit" arrived today. I'm now mulling over the directions, which look straightforward, but perhaps a bit incomplete for the inexperienced & paranoid installer, like me. For example, there is no suggestion where to mount the box - or if it belongs under the hood or under the dash near the ECU, where all of its connections are to be made. Eight of the 10 pages of instructions are model-specific wiring diagrams.
FYI, here's the intro:
The MAP Controller circuit is a replacement for the original Boost pressure switch and Fuel Enrichment Relay. It will translate MAP pressure into a voltage signal that the factory ECU can understand and allow faster, smoother transition into boost fuel enrichment. It is fully self contained and "potted" for safety from moisture, heat or vibration.
I'll probably try to install it on Saturday.
Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It sounds like something the J&S v2 can accomplish by plumbing the MAP sensor to the intake manifold, except that the J&S allows you to adjust the voltage for more fine tuning... However, please let us know the result of the unit.
JT
[This message has been edited by JT98CivicEX (edited June 28, 2001).]
I found a good place is in the dash next to the glove box near the stereo...there is empty space there. I have my timing at 18 degrees, in 110 degree weather with AC on there is no tip in at all even after sittin gin stand still traffic for 30 min in this heat. I reccommend this mod to anyone with a Supercharger (jesus christ i can't type tonight to save my life) to increase power and save the engine. Before i put it in, i hooked the safeguard back up and there was both audible and detected detonation, not there is none. This is far superior to the TPR relay....even the Zdyne guy that came up with the TPS mod said it was just a bandaid till something more permanent could be had. This also allows you to remove the JR pressure activated fuel enrichment relay, which if the resister/diode (can't remember which) goes bad, you can fry your ECU. Please excuse any typos, i'm about to cut off my hands and throw out the keyboard.
I'm also still haveing a damn hard time getting into hostboard since they transfered the thing....something about proxies and firewalls.
I just got finished installing the MAP Controller, and took it for a test drive. Before, particularly when it was hot out and the A/C was on, mid-throttle I got audible pinging under load. That appears to be completely gone now, and it also seems to have smoothed out the transition to higher rpms in the 4-5K range. It's probably a valid argument that this mod should have come with the kit, but in any case I'm glad to be rid of the pinging, which couldn't have been doing my engine any good. Thanks to everyone for their comments!
I installed my first JR MAP fuel modifier Friday evening in a '00 Civic Si. Early this morning, I traveled with the owner of the car to Atlanta to tune the car on the dyno. I must say that the results were staggering !!!
The car has a stock JRSC with the JR BTC and MAP modifier, a DC Header, Venom 270's, AEM CAI (cut down short) and a cat-back exhaust. A Cartech was originally set for the initial install, however, it had a leaking diaphragm and created all kinds of tip-in detonation... so for the time being, the stock JR FMU was utilized. Obviously, this created an extremely RICH condition and many drivability issues followed. Unhappy but undaunted, this customer returned to me for repairs.
Once strapped down to the DynoJet, the first pull was a sickening 146 HP and 118 TQ !!! The UPS man then showed up with the new Cartech 2025 (this is another LONG story as to why I got it on Saturday, but anyway) and I immediately slapped it on. Pull #2 was a big jump: 168 HP and 124 TQ. We were still way too rich. Each pull got better and better... finally netting 200 HP and 135 TQ on the 8th pull. Both the customer and I are very happy with the results.
Keep the good products coming JR... we LOVE them !!!
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
i told you that you wouldn't be disappointed.
I put mine on this weekend too. The first thing I noticed was the idle is much more stable, sitting solidly at 730rpm, before it was fluctuating between 800 and 1000.
I backed out the JR FMU two full turns, set my timing to 14BTC (with no electronic retard device) and ran it as hard as I could. It was 95 degrees out yesterday and try as I might I could not get one audible ping out the engine. Needless to say, I'm very happy. YMMV on the timing, I live at 5800 feet above sea level, and never got any more than tip in detonation on stock timing. Of course I'm only making 4.5psi at this altitude too.
The engine sunds better, and runs smoother. I think a little more tuning should net me some power, I'm going to try to get it back on the dyno this week before the IDRC event on Sunday. I had my VAFC aggresively tuned before I installed the MAP converter, but I zeroed it out before running the car. I also don't have a static FP gauge to set the FMU accurately yet, so I don't think it's any faster yet.
Before the install I had the FMU set all the way on to kill tip in detonation, with 15-20% corrections on the VAFC up top to get some power. Now I think I can dial in the FMU to what it's supposed to be, and just use minor VAFC correction.
Install it on the MAP sensor side of your VAFC, in case you haven't figured that our yet. I actually just spliced it into the white wire on the VAFC instead of hacking the factory harness again.
I received mine today, will install Saturday and report back to the RS/LS camp.
Chuck
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96 Integra B18B w JRSC@9psi, JR BTC, JR MAP Converter, Venom 270's, Walbro 342, DC 4-2-1, DC Catback, ST Rear Swaybar, etc.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRCivic:
Christian,
Check those plugs in another 10000 Kilometers... Platinum plugs will typically only last around 10-12 thousand miles (which would be about 20000 Kilometers tops). The Platinum is soft, and the electrode gets worn down much faster than conventional metals.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually Platinum is hard as hell...that's why it lasts a lot longer than regular coppers.
It appears I need to clarify my statement above about spark plugs... especially since I have been called out on it multiple times in two weeks.
I stated that the Platinum plugs were soft... this is incorrect. What I was trying to say is that FORCED INDUCTION powered vehicles typically erode spark plugs much faster than a N/A powered car... the larger the surface of the electrode, the faster this erosion occurs... the metal in which it is made from makes little difference. So, spending five times as much money on a plug that lasts approximately the same time/mileage as a conventional copper resistor plug seems a bit pointless to me.
My apologies if I left the wrong impression in my first post about this subject.
Jim
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph