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T-Bo, Derek and I watched a good bit of the Thomas Lang DVD last night. I had only seen the Sonor BD pedal video until now.
Lang is now the new king of "Extreme Chops Drumming" in my mind. He did things I don't think many others can do and with quite a bit of authority. Granted, not much is applicable to playing in a musical situation (debatable I realize but Lang himself says it in the DVD apparently) but I was impressed to say the least. He's the new Jackie Chan of drumming!
After furtner thought I think I prefer watching Virgil though, his phrasing I think is coooler, more unique to him. The licks Lang does seems a bit more generic. He appears to be able to do things WAY above and beyond Virg on a technical and endurance level, but watching someone fight to pull something off is a bit more exciting then watching someone do it effortlessly perhaps.
I don't know, Virgil's phrasing is a bit more "out" to me.
EXACTLY! it's all about the phrasing that pushes virgil WAY beyond lang. WAY!
I don't know, I'm totally expecting to get smacked with the handbags of a tonne of Virgil fans who post here but...
I really prefer Thomas Lang's playing. He is technically phenolminal and this is a total swing for me. My faves have always been Carlos Vega, Jeff Porcaro, Steve Gadd and other 'groovers', but there is some passion and honesty in Lang's playing I've never seen in Virgil's. Virg seems to me to be running through the motions when he plays and it's all about 200mph and a little boring after a while.
Thomas can really groove as well, something don't think (IMHO) Virgil can do as well. I've just seen clips of him playing with the latest Pop Idol on tour over here and he really smokes the band. He's the sort of player that would make me go to an Osmonds gig just so I could watch him play 2 & 4.
I detest the new league of "Super Drumming". It's turning drumming into an olympic sport and I hate it. It was all about to suck the life and passion out of the instrument for me, then I saw Thomas mix the two. WOW...
Youo have top realise that this is only my personal opinion and whilst I realsie I have set myself up for a lont of flack here, I think it was worth it...
MP
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 14, 2004 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Groovemeister ]</font>
I think they are about the same level in terms of facility and independence but, as far as musicality, improvisational ability, and just plain overall rhythmic interest, I prefer listening and watching Virgil more. As Steve Holmes pointed out the big thing is the phrasing. Also, you can hear Virgil develop his solos compositionally. He seems to never run out of ideas because he knows how to develop them. One thing that I think Lang does explore a little more than Virgil is orchestration. Lang seems to explore the sounds of his instruments with his use of a variety of cymbal, hi-hat sounds, and effects sounds.
Having said that, I was really inspired to get to work after watching the Lang dvd. It's got great exercises and ideas to work on. And it's great to see someone play at a high technical level like Lang.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is funny, "sir." ;o)Quote:
I don't know, I'm totally expecting to get smacked with the handbags of a tonne of Virgil fans who post here but...
I'm with Dij, Stv, shed, & bells on this one...altho BOTH are incredible players...I don't think one is necessarily better than the other AFA technically speaking...that, to me, is kind of like "splittin' hairs"...of course, this is potentially another "silly HB 'argument'" [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Having said that...Vinnie is better'n any of 'em...NYAAHH! *phhfffttt* [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] LOL
[Altho you have to admit that both VD & TL kill Vinnie & every1 else in the DB dept.; w Mangini a close 3rd & Marco a close 4th [img]eek.gif[/img] ;o) ]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 17, 2004 01:00 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
After going through the DVD, I must say that I was also in complete awe of Lang's playing...the stuff he does is pretty intense yet he makes it look so easy and he makes it seem effortless...I guess like steve said, a lot of it may not be applicable musically, but I think the exercises are more designed just to increase facility and control on the drums, which will make playing other things easier and you'll do them with more confidence (as Lang says in the DVD)...all in all, Lang is a freak!!!!
Can someone post Lang's philosophy of developing control?
Reading the liner notes of GLStone's Stick Control, it clearly and emphatically states to do each exercise 20 times slowly, speeding up gradually until you feel tension, then back down.
It is this discipline right here that, IMO, separates one musician from another. My awe of the great players is not what they can pull off, it is the process they went through to have their stuff.
This process of allowing your body to develop (law of the farmer) under its own time framework fascinates me personally. It is something we all have in common as drummers. What makes Vinnie so special is his advancement of both head (technical expertise) and heart (ability to feel the music inside). Whenever I see a drummer who has great chops, but first serves the music and plays with his heart?then I take real notice. Like it was said, you go to an Osmond concert to see someone like this play 2 & 4 all night.
**Note the Osmond concert was used only to communicate the idea of going to extremes to see a great drummer. I, in no way or deed, did in fact sneak in the back doors of either an Osmond, Bay City Rollers, or Bobby Sherman concert in recent or past years.
No passion or honesty in Virgil's playing?? Thomas is technically amazing but leaves somewhat empty creatively and musically compared to Virg, just goes to show we all have different taste. And I absolutely dig Virgil's phrasing compared to Thomas but Thomas is an amazing technical and fluid player no doubt about that and I dig that about him it is to be commended. I very much doubt Thomas is beyond Virg technically by what I have seen and heard from Virg as of very recent on his clinic tour's. I would say they are in very close proximity. Virg is doing thing's in the realm of superimposing rhythm's that I still think is on a level all it's own. They are 2 wonderfl player's and great guy's to boot.
Dig
virgil can go in and out of time a lot more naturally than lang which makes his phrasing more unique and creative. lang does really fast stuff but virgil can go way out of time and come back with ease. there's only one other drummer i've seen with this kind of ability... vinnie colaiuta.
Agree very much Shedder, concerning Virgil's ability to move in and WAY out of time with amazing ease, which makes his phrasing very COOL!
And as NoBells said Virgil's rhythmic innovations are much deeper and more creative, there is just flat out a deeper compositional depth there. Something about Virg that is not mentioned much is his amazing improvisational ability, some of the absolute best I have seen and heard, just listen to Just Add Water(whether you dig the musical style or not) all improvisation! and nothing else. I still dig both of them Virg and Lang in a technical sense though.
Dig
I saw 'Thomas' and 'Mike Mangini' play live at a Drumfest and walked out on both of them, other drummers were walking out as well, it was technique for the sake of technique....Vinnie,Virgil,Marco and Jojo are making a statement when they solo, and they all have their own 'thing' going too. They have the perfect combo of chops,musicality and originality.
hi,
I saw the DVD, i was very impress by the technic of Thomas. These generation of new drummers, Virgil, Marco, Thomas, have all the tricks... (Mega chops, inter dependance, coordination, sticks twirling...)This DVD contain a lot of work for anybody, at least to work on technic.
But i had a reflection. Virgil work with Planet X, and we know him via Planet X and his solo albums. Marco has a lot experience in his own solo albums. And i think Thomas is more young in term of experience, so his playing too, he plays with "Radio Artist", and 1 solo album.
Are you according with me when i think that Virgil, Marco, and Thomas are the new g?n?ration of drummer after Dave, Dennis and Vinnie?
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 19, 2004 05:54 AM: Message edited by: bouts ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don?t be decieved.Quote:
Originally posted by bouts:
And i think Thomas is more young in term of experience, so his playing too, he plays with "Radio Artist", and 1 solo album.
In his earlier days, Thomas played all the local major acts (Falco, etc.) During the past few years, he did lots of recordings and tours with well known European pop/rock artists (B. Tyler, G. Nanini, Robbie Williams, etc.) He also did 2 Albums with the Vienna Art Orchestra (quite demanding modern jazz/fusion stuff).
From this point of view, I would say that he has much more experience (in different styles) than Marco for instance.