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Well, I can't say I can
remedy everything but I
have helped a lot of guys
work their pedals, make
adjustments etc. and im-
prove on the pedals that
they have, without hav-
ing to go out and buy
new ones.
I am pretty familiar with
most pedals. If you are
having problems, post and
I will try and help you
out the best that I can.
[img]smile.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 21, 2003 06:42 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
Peter,
Maybe you can help me with this one: I grew up playing on a Ludwig Ghost with great luck. The feel is just great. For fear of breaking it and not being able to find anything, I got a DW5000AH single with double chain, weights, accel, etc. Well, it feels SOOO heavy and slow compared to the Ghost.
Four main differences:
1. Ghost has a spring PULLING forward too.
2. Ghost is a solid foot board.
3. The beater weights are VERY different.
4. Ghost is direct link, not chain.
I use an old Danmar red wood beater on the Ghost.
Any suggestions on getting the DW to feel more like the Ghost?
I also have a new Yamaha Flying dragon direct drive, and it feels really good to me.
Danny
the weights and double chain are the problem straight off. That's why the direct drive Yamaha feels much better. You could try a nylon drive pedal and get close to the same feel too.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Ghost Pedal was a classic, longboard design. The problem and I think you touched on it is that it's a part of history and well... a ghost from the past. Realize that only a longboard, with direct-drive, can give you that same kind of response. It's subtle but what is helping your action on the Ghost is that your heel is helping to trigger the back-pedal, allowing the beater to come back faster. I have an Axis-A Longboard, which is heaven and this is why. You are not going to duplicate that unless you get an Axis-A Longboard. I suggest buying a used one on the market for parts but more so that you can open her up and understand her workings, without feeling like you are at risk. You want to know your pedal inside-out.Quote:
Maybe you can help me with this one: I grew up playing on a Ludwig Ghost with great luck. The feel is just great. For fear of breaking it and not being able to find anything, I got a DW5000AH single with double chain, weights, accel, etc. Well, it feels SOOO heavy and slow compared to the Ghost.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you, Randy! I think he is onto the solution, possibly. Try his suggestion and you should get, at least, a partial result but if not the total, loosen the spring tension all the way and try a different beater and we'll take it from there. The beater can make a big difference, along with the double-chain, which Randy hit on, right away. There's only so much we can due with that, though it is theoretically possible to remove the chain entirely, replacing it with a kevlar strap. Hmm... That might be an idea but let's start with the basics. Again, that's a fine pedal, with a special, classic, small cam-design, which allows for a good combination response and power. It is analagous to the Blue Cam in the Eliminator series from Pearl. We should be able to make that thing go, with some work.Quote:
Four main differences:
1. Ghost has a spring PULLING forward too.
2. Ghost is a solid foot board.
3. The beater weights are VERY different.
4. Ghost is direct link, not chain.
I use an old Danmar red wood beater on the Ghost.
Any suggestions on getting the DW to feel more like the Ghost?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, there, you have the state of the art. Direct-Drive is the wave of the future. I, myself, feel that these are the best designs in pedals today, Axis, DW9K and the Yamaha FD's. Remember that only Axis has the longboard design and from what you have said, this has become something of a factor for you - like me.Quote:
I also have a new Yamaha Flying dragon direct drive, and it feels really good to me.
[img]wink.gif[/img]
Keep us up on this. There's more that we can do if we don't score on these.
Before I forget, let me know if you play heel-up or heel down and if heel-up, tell me what the ball of your feet are on the footboard.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 22, 2003 12:26 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
Thank you Peter and Randy.
I tried the Axis longboard, but it didn't feel natural to me. When I got the Yamaha, I compared it with a DW 5000 strap turbo model. The Yamaha and DW both felt GREAT. The difference that I found is that withe the DW, I played better heal up. With the Yamaha, I played better heal down. I got the Yamaha because I tend to play heal down more often than not, including fast doubles. As you pointed out Peter, the long board of the Ghost helps with the return action from the heal, and that's the only thing missing with the Yamaha. However, I feel VERY comfortable with the Yamaha now. I was just trying to see if there was a way to "save" the DW that's sitting all alone. Maybe I'll pull out an extra kick drum and play around with double kick! [img]wink.gif[/img] That could be a hoot!
I did try switching the beater on the DW, but it just made the action feel strange. Can I really change the double chain to a strap? Never thought of asking DW. I live about 20 minutes away from them. Maybe they'll sell/give me the parts?
Suggestions?
Interesting that your Longboard experience was not favorable. Tell me, was it the Axis-A, with the VDL (Variable Drive Lever) that you tried? I'd be interested.
This is a key option on this pedal, allowing the angle of the drop to be change, which changes the action drastically, which Pearl circumvented (patent), using the cam idea.
I would contact DW about the pedal and the issues that you have brought up. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain in calling them.
I'm not surprised that you liked the DW5K, heel-up. Tell me, did you lower the ball of your foot
on the footboard, when you tried using it?
I am a heel-down player that is moving towards heel-up. I have found that there are basically
two issues that concern me. The first is angle at which the strap, lever or chain pulls the beater down and the footboard.
Being heel-down, I have developed a heel movement that helps push and pull the beater. This is best utilized with the Longboard.
The only other suggestion would be investigating the VRUK.
Let's take it all, step by step.
1. Remove the weights.
2. Try a lighter beater.
3. Loosen spring tension.
4. Adjust the distance of the
beater more towards the head.
5. Call DW.
6. Change spring.
Let's see what happens.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 22, 2003 02:59 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
To Iadanny the "Ghostman",
I'm going to suggest something very sophisticated (hahaha):
If you like so much the Ghost why don't you get another one?
I mean, probably if you sell DW you can even buy two!
This doesn't mean I might not agree with some of the good suggestions of the other guys but if I love Pepsi why try to buy a Coca-Cola and see what I can add to it to make the taste like Pepsi?
Just look in the internet for another one! USA must be full of Ghost looking for an owner. Best luck!
Warm regards,
Alex Sanguinetti
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 22, 2003 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Alex Sanguinetti ]</font>
Axis A Longboard. One of the greatest pedals ever made. And with the Ekit trigger system, it's unbeatable.
Hi Alex,
I thought of that very high tech solution too! hahaha
My fear is that some day, I WILL have a hard time finding a used Ghost, so I thought it would be better to put a proactive plan together and find something "modern"
Peter, unfortunately, I don't remember if the Axis had the option you are talking about.
I will contact DW to see if I can swap out the double chain and sprocket for a nylon strap version. When I tested the DW, I did try playing heal down as well. Basically, I could play heal down for "normal" beats, but if I wanted to do anything fast, I HAD TO play heal up. When I tried to play fast heal down, my foot could not keep up. With the Yamaha, I really HAVE TO play heal down. The design and action of the pedal does not work well for heal up at all. I think the sliding into the pedal might work, but I don't use that technique.
Again, I will keep you posted on what happens with DW.
Also, never tried the VRUK thing....
Danny
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 22, 2003 11:14 AM: Message edited by: ladanny ]</font>
You should be able to change the chain to a strap, you will have to change the cam also. At least I think the cam has to be changed, DW can tell you, but all of their pedals can be upgraded and or changed.
Randy,
Do you think I can go through DW cust. sup. or do I have to go to a dealer and pay?
Danny
Danny, you should be able to make a request thru customer service at DW, they might try and charge yopu for the parts........no biggie.
If you have problems let me know and I will make some calls to Chris L and a few others that are friends.
Iadanny,
I know what you mean, very often I ask myself how come Bill Gates can make any profit without our help, but the answer eludes me...
In any case, before it's too late, look here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=41452
You might even buy two Ghosts AND ON TOP some Vinnie CDs!
Good Luck,
Alex Sanguinetti
http://www.ionrecords.com/stuff/hard...ges/ghost5.jpg
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Follow up on Randy's good advice.Quote:
I will contact DW to see if I can swap out the double chain and sprocket for a nylon strap version. When I tested the DW, I did try playing heal down as well. Basically, I could play heal down for "normal" beats, but if I wanted to do anything fast, I HAD TO play heal up. When I tried to play fast heal down, my foot could not keep up. With the Yamaha, I really HAVE TO play heal down. The design and action of the pedal does not work well for heal up at all. I think the sliding into the pedal might work, but I don't use that technique.
Also, think about what Alex said.
If they are out there, get another,
especially if they're cheap.
On the DW5K, on the side of the
pedal, there is an adjustment that
can be made, along the beater to
be moved towards the head. Take
a drum-key, loosen it and move the
beater closer to head. Re-tighten
it and try the pedal, heel-down
again and tell me what you think.
Playing heel-down will always
give you better control. I am
heel-down most of the time. I
go heel-up for very fast doubles
only and always when doing the
double-stroke rolls on the kick.
If you want to play heel-up on
the Yamaha's and are having prob-
lems, explore all the adjustments
that can be made. Don't give up
on them. You have some good
hardware there.
I hope the best.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 22, 2003 02:47 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, the first thing I'd inquire about is what kind of say you have in the tuning process of the kicks. If you have none and they won't allow you to make any changes whatsoever, you may have to get your heel down on the pedal for better control.Quote:
Ok, this post is more about different pedals and bd's as opposed to my pedal. I used to play a fairly loose bd head with pillow damping and a hole in the resonant head. At school however, all of the bd heads are cranked high and don't have any damping or holes... I used to play heelup into the head but I'm finding that I don't have the control or sound that I had on my kit. What do I do to make everything ok??
As for the pedal, let me know if there any problems with it. I would loosen that spring as much possible. You need to control the strokes better. Good luck.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Ok, this post is more about different pedals and bd's as opposed to my pedal. I used to play a fairly loose bd head with pillow damping and a hole in the resonant head. At school however, all of the bd heads are cranked high and don't have any damping or holes... I used to play heelup into the head but I'm finding that I don't have the control or sound that I had on my kit. What do I do to make everything ok??
Thank you all for the great advice. Randy, I never thought about swapping out the cam and chain. I called DW today, got all the part numbers, and called my buddy down at West LA Music. I should have all my parts shortly, and ONLY $15 for everything, including extra strap!!!
Why didn't I think of this sooner?!?!?!
I'll keep you posted once I get the strap and cam setup. I'm so excited, and it's not even Christmas yet! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Danny
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 24, 2003 07:50 PM: Message edited by: ladanny ]</font>
Great going, Danny!
Hope it all turns out!
[img]cool.gif[/img]
I was on the phone with Darrell,
from Axis, yesterday and the word
is that there will be a new, extend-
ed longboard out sometime next year.
This is welcome news to the drummers
that have inquired about this, like me,
who've noted added action at the low-
er end of the footboard.
He's also sending me some more of the
heavy-duty springs that come standard
with the pedals. I am going to be re-
placing Tama IC springs, along with
trying them out on the Eliminators,
just to see what they feel like.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 04, 2003 10:16 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
peter....
please could u help with the clave question i posted a while ago?
how do they (antonio and el negro) make their pedals have NO swing so that transitions from hi hat to clave pedal is not hindered by the pedal swinging back and forth???
thanks.
Peter, how would a wood beater feel compared to a felt one. Thanks.
How would it feel? Felt has a little bit
of give, whereas wood directly translates
the impact of the stroke to the limb. I
prefer felt or the quad synthetics. Also,
the wood beaters are usually heavier.
This is an issue because you can always
add weights to lighter beaters but you
can't take it away.
You can approximate the wood with the
two synthetic alternatives on the quad.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Would you get a greater bounce off the bd head with wood?
Likely, yes. It depends on the
tension but remember that weight
factor. Every wooden beater I
have ever tried has been heavy.
Try it before you commit.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Palmerlouie,
Without actually seeing them, I can
only guess that they're steadying the
beater, after each of the strokes, with
their feet. I know Virgil does this.
They keep their feet on the pedal, the
heel-up technique actually altered, al-
lowing some contact with the heel or
rest of the foot.
Does that make sense?
These days, heel-up has moved back
down towards the pedal and even floor,
in some cases(!). Drummers are needing
to control their double-strokes and the
answer to this has been larger footboards
and more contact with the pedal.
In their case, they are, most likely,
leaving their heel on the clave, while
the ball of the other foot remains on
the HH. That's my take.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 04, 2003 12:11 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
thanks peter...
but they dont leave their foot on the pedal....sometimes u see them hit it hard, just once, and then move their foot goes back to the hats and carries on doing whatever.....u see the beater strike and then go immediately back to a stationary position....its as if they are doing something with the spring....but i have tried loosening and tightening......its nothing to do with technique.....
u can see antonio on mod drummer 03 and horacio on mod drummer 00......u can see their pedals then
Without seeing them, it's hard
to say but you may be onto some-
thing, when you mentioned spring.
You can buy all different kinds
of springs and the heavier ones
remove the play in a big way.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
I just wanted to share that I switched out my DW5000 double chain for the strap and it feels GREAT! Swapping out the cam was very simple.
I'm playing on Sunday so I'm going to give it a shot.
Thanks for the great advice!!!
Danny
I forgot to follow up on the results and using the strap version at the gig. Bottomline, the DW is back as my MAIN pedal! The strap is so smooth and natural feeling.
I am moving my Yamaha Direct Drive to the left foot for some fun clave and bell action. Just gotta pick up a bell mount, and then LOTS of practice, recording, and listening!
Thanks for all the great advice!
Danny
I'm definitely sold on straps. The feel IS really smooth. I wish I would have done it earlier.
Peter...
I have an Iron Cobra double pedal and am curious to the difference between that and the AXIS pedals you use... what effect does the longboard have on execution of doubles with the feet? Does your technique change for doubles if you use the Axis vs. the IC's??
Thanks
BV
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I actually am not using the Axis pedal, right now. I am using the Pearl Eliminators and that it because I have two of those and only one of the Axis Longboards.Quote:
I have an Iron Cobra double pedal and am curious to the difference between that and the AXIS pedals you use... what effect does the longboard have on execution of doubles with the feet? Does your technique change for doubles if you use the Axis vs. the IC's??
I have found that, when I use the Axis pedal, I am more relaxed and get more from less, if you get my meaning. The longboard gives us a bigger "sweet-spot" but only with the rest of the pedal's innovation, including the key VDL (Variable Drive Lever), along with the direct-drive mechanism, do you get the total effect. It's not a perfect pedal but it's close.
Now, when I play with the I/C's (once a week), I find that the pedal has less response, which I have to accustom myself to. It just takes a while. Of the three, the I/C is my least favorite, for certain.
The perfect design, I believe, would incorporate the longboard (actually longer, by my taste), VDL but with the uni-clamps, seen in the Pearl and Yamaha pedals, along with the more standard nuts and bolts.
Incidentally, the I/C I use is chain-driven. I prefer the steel cord belts.
As for the doubles, I execute them heel-down in almost every situation, EXCEPT when I use the double-stroke roll on the kicks (rare). When I am double-stroke rolling with I/C's, my foot goes heel-up, with the ball of my foot a little lower on the footboard of the I/C.
Remember that the I/C spring is not nearly as tight as the Axis pedals, now.
You have to try the Axis-A pedals to know what I am talking about, when it comes to control and the ease of depress. It's heaven for me.
I hope that answers your question and if not, please don't hold back and inquire further.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 06, 2004 11:38 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
This is a link to Virgil's message board, where I have exhaustively talked about the Axis-A and have included all types of info, including links to pictures, if you'd like to look more into it.
http://www.virgildonati.com/msgboard...=&threadid=100
I also talk about the VRUK attachments.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 06, 2004 11:42 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
thanks Peter!
Very helpful.........
BV
Two new cams for the Eliminator coming:
http://www.pearldrum.com/04snkpk_epap.asp
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Not to change the subj or anything, but...eh...well, i'm changin' da subj [img]wink.gif[/img]
Bryan - that is ONE ffrreeakaayy Photoshop/PictureIt-doctored avatar ya gots there! [img]confused.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
...& Peter...i likes yours, too...& i'm gonna havta jump on the ol bandwagon...shot of me & da Wreck-L-meister back a coupla yrs...& i have an even better pic, too, believe it or not...maybe later [i look like a deer in headlights/frog on the highway in it tho, so i'm hesitant ;=)...oh, the "vanity"...but the guys i'm standing in between r da MONSTA'S] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 26, 2004 02:58 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Fuse,
Try cropping in on the photo from
the horizontal plance. Try to match
them so that the photo isn't elong-
ated. Looks like a good one.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Peter - i tried that in software [also as a jpeg], but it comes out GIGANTIC, 4 some reason [img]confused.gif[/img]
Check your [HOD/HB-forum] Private Messages on here....
I checked and there were no messages, Fuse.
You need to convert to .gif. This will cut
it down considerably.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
OK, try your PMs again...
Let me know if u got it/if it works out....
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 26, 2004 03:48 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>