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I frequent a few other drum forums now and then and I've notice one drummer being discussed or favored over & over--Danny Carey from Tool.
Can anyone else share some thoughts on him? I think it's good to keep up with the current scene...even though I almost never listen to commercial clear channel radio.
He seems to be highly respected froma wide range of drummers.
IMO, Danny Carey reputation kind of suffers from what I would like to call "the Mike Portnoy syndrome", being a state which a drummer of some talent reaches the public eye via their popular respective band, and thusly gets cast into some weird drum god status...which is fine by me, but what I don't get is when people rave about MP all the time... he's a decent player, but I just find his drumming to be very predictable, dull and filled with rock cliches...
Danny, on the other hand is a more accomplished player... not one of my favourites by far, but still has some cool stuff going for him (like playing with the snares of most of the time, TB ripoff but what the hey... nice singles around the kit and some intresting beats, good odd time phrasing...)
all in all, your aspiring teenage rock drummer could do a whole lot worse than to pick Carey as a role model for their drumming endeavors...
I remember once on the toolsite Blair(webmaster) said something about how Danny paid for dinner once with an all black custom credit card and the waitress looked at him and asked "Why is it all black? "to which Danny replied, "Because I'm Satan." I always thought that was really funny. [img]cool.gif[/img]
Anyways IMO Tool is pretty much the most "entertaining" band in the mainstream, they pretty much "melt" all their influences(from Crimson to Metallica)and somehow still retain a part of themselves......Carey's drumming is pretty elastic too(listen to "Ticks and Leeches")and the guy definately has sum independence chops and the ability to puncuate different accents with his body(in an odd time manner)and his fills are pretty much standards for rock/metal, decent double bass chops(but contrary to others, has the ability to go from breaking speed and slow the tempo down which IMO is incredible)listen to the song "Anima"..
ohh he's taking tabla classes with Bozzio's teacher(I forgot his name)and has him sampled on his electronic pads.....that alone goes to show that the guy is definately INTO drums and not just another n00b playing pop punk on eMpTyV [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]
And u gotta remember to take things in context most of the people who frequent those boards havent played drums for more than 10 years and the language of say Weckl or Colaiuta(and the music itself)isn't gonna appeal as much as say Tool or Blink 182, so they look into those drummes for an influence(and break down all their beats/patterns, somehow one would hope they would get bored and move on heheh!). With drummers like Carey one would hope those people would look back at his influences and also study them(and listen to them)
that's how I see it [img]smile.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2003 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2003 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>
Danny Carey is earning the reputation among young drummers that Neil Peart enjoyed in the 80s. I have all of Tool's CDs; one reason is because Danny Carey kicks butt. But he's a very oddball cat into the occult and has pentangles painted on his drumheads and other kidstuff.
Pocket, I'll get you a copy of Lateralus, Tool's latest, gimme a week or so. Otey?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But he's a very oddball cat into the occult and has pentangles painted on his drumheads and other kidstuff.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kids Stuff? Come on Man!
I know a good deal about it for insterests sake. And it's not an evil thing, just a lot of metaphysic stuff, yoga teachings and mantras and magical ritual for the sake of helping to visualize your intended goals in life. Much like someone might meditate on a picture or something in hopes of clearing their mind or finding the one thing in their mind they want to focus on. As far as it being real and believing in it. I think the only way to really say it is that it's like anything in religions or unexplained things. There are thought to be certain geometric shapes that are in line so perfectly with mathmatics (what many consider to be the voice of the universe) and those shapes and are so perfectly alligned that one can harness certain energies in the universe itself. Danny has experimented with this for years. It's very much the same thing as how the Bible discusses the dimensions of Soloman's Temple being so perfect that God could reside there. Such shapes and dimensions are deemed "Holy" or Sacred and thus, Sacred Geometry. That is just the really super dumbed down version so that people can understand it easily.
I think those are going to believe in something like that are going to and they will see/hear/feel and deal with things that others might not believe in at all. Someone might feel Jesus in them when they pray, others might think the person is nuts. Danny might hear voices from somewhere in space and time and the universe and those who will believe will and those who won't won't. But it's not evil, not Satanic, and in the end, to each their own, I guess. [img]cool.gif[/img]
Pentangles painted on your drumheads is kidstuff to a man my age. Black credit cards and "I am Satan" is kidstuff, for Goth's sake. [img]smile.gif[/img] I didn't slag off Carey, he's pretty damned good IMO, plus I paid for Tool's CDs and didn't get 'em off the net for free so I feel entitled to my (not uninformed) opinion.
Danny's a fantastic player IMO. I've got all their stuff and a good friend of mine is one of the top boot collectors on the net so I've seen and heard a ton of live material as well.
Certainly one of the more interesting bands in the popular scene. It'd be great to see more bands gaining success by trying to be good players and write interesting music.
heh I didn't mean to insult you(u know i love you so heheh)but what I meant was that you shouldn't comment on something like THAT unless you're informed about it(the pentagrams), im not talking about Carey's drumming perse...
Tool's approach to controversial subjects and their lyrics are witty(ok maybe not to someone your age. When the band started to become sucessful and gain sum recognition after "Undertow" the media started questioning their motifs and neatpicking on everything they did(much like they did with Floyd-to whom their stage persona seems to be modeled after).....so Maynard adopted the sarcastic approach with songs like "Die Eier Von Satan"(the lyrics are a cookie recipe....doesn't have ANYTHING to do with Satan)and pretended they followed an ocult religion called Lacrimology(or something like that)-it's the study of "crying" but it was a hoax.....(tho their fans actually did sum research and try to get "into it")
"There are thought to be certain geometric shapes that are in line so perfectly with mathmatics (what many consider to be the voice of the universe) and those shapes and are so perfectly alligned that one can harness certain energies in the universe itself."
WTF?!
I meant pentagrams not pentangles (whatever, it's kidstuff) but I'm an old fart (same age as that Colaiuta character) and haven't had my Geritol. I did crowd surf at Boxcar Racer, I think Travis is the shit too.
Now you must excuse me, Noel, I gotta use my walker to get over to my drums so I can practice my 324 BPM double bass shuffle, I can only do it for a half hour now instead of an hour, like I used to. [img]cool.gif[/img]
This is not the purpose of my thread...but all that "dark stuff" is much more than "kids stuff"--dangling with the occult ain't nonsense. I know, Neil P had the same type of symbols painted on his BD's on Moving Pictures...rock n' roll has been through this over and agian. Yet, rock aside, the occult and it's paraphernalia is, and can be dangerous stuff. You reap what you sow...but when you're in a position of deep influence as a successful band is, you are then in a position of influence.
But then, most of these guys, as developed and mature as they are on the instrument, can be just the opposite in "real life"--dismissing their influence, their power, their position.
As Sir Charles said, "Let parents be role models, not athletes." I agree with this.
Yet, there are a lot of households w/little parental supervision and influence. These kids are most influenced by images and the power of music. Just talk to a skin head recruiter--Who do they target? White males ages 16-24 from broken homes. How do they do it? Lots of beer, hard booze, and rock music. Their goal is to seduce and build a brotherhood--in short, to fill in the gaps and needs a family should meet. If you live in LA, go to the Museum of Tolerance and sign up for the lecture on skin heads. The guy that spoke when I was there was the model behind the movie, American History X. Talk about a highly intense individual. His candid discussion of how they would use music to seduce young guys into their care was alarming.
they improvise...
if u have any file sharing programm try to get a hold on sum boots from the last tour, Bozzio came out with sum roto's and played "Triad", and the drummer from The Melvins and Messugah(sp) did sum "drum solo duets" with Danny [img]cool.gif[/img]
Hey Flam Triplet
I've listened to several of Portney's stuff, especially Liquid Tension Experiemnet and am interested in what you get from Marco outside of drumming gymnastics. His video bored me to death outside of the stuff on finger control .He seems like a nice fellow, but that's not the first reason I listen to someone. So, we're back to drumming...what or why does Marco "do it" for anyone? Is this a new thread?
And thanks to all for the Carey report. I might not dig his philosophical vibe, but am interested in why so many enjoy his drumming.
Carey is a decent drummer. Most of his riffs seem to come from the music, which is a good thing. It's nice to have a pop band blowing odd meter. It's good for the kids. He's definately no Marco Minnemann, but I do prefer him than "Port". [img]graemlins/cry_smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]
Derek, I never heard any live Tool, are they as faithful as Rush is to their music or do 'improvise?'
why not just check the guy out and come up with your own opinions and conclusions? seems like the logical thing!)
To me Marco's playing resembles those pool players that only practice playing "tricks" and bouncing the ball off the rail and all that crap, that's the only thing he's been taught(or that he choose to pursue-like Donati mentioned on MD recently, as a drummer or player u chooose two paths, achieving technical greatness or just playing for the song and grooving away)
His playing on Paul Gilbert's "Burning Organ" bores me to tears if u want me to be honest..and I remember reading somewhere(probably here), that he covered "Mercy Mercy Mercy" at a clinic and couldn't swing nor blow through the changes/transitions to save his life, that alone speaks for itself, then again Weckl's performance of that tune isn't to convincing OOPS!)
and while Carey's independence isn't as "advanced"(and who's actually counting once you reach THAT level)his playing appeals more to me from a musical perspective than Marco's Chop's Fest...listen to "Anima" and "Lateralus"(those are the last 2 Tool records, but if you want to sample or download the songs before buying the records heck out "46 and 2", "Eulogy", "Ticks and Leeches" ."The Grudge", "Parabola", "Reflections" and "Triad" ). For sum "extra info" Carey formed a "super group" with Claypool(ex Primus)and Belew(King Crimson), that's the last ive heard from him(and he's also recording a DVD, btw Carey isn't as young as u would expect, he's in his 30's!), there are sum nice pics and info at DrummerWorld.com.=
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Danny_Carey.html
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 31, 2003 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 31, 2003 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>
a little bump here(sorry guys)....
I just went over to Carey's Site(dannycarey.org)
there are sum nice answers on the FAQ, u maybe surprise by his influences and books he's studied from
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Q - Who are your influences?
A - In the drumming world I would count Ringo Starr, John Bonham, Bill Bruford, Carl Palmer, Billy Cobham, Tony Williams, Alan White, Barrymore Barlow, Clive Bunker, Lenny White, Terry Bozzio, Vinnie Coliauta, Steve Jansen, Pat Mastalotto, Louis Bellson, Buddy Rich, Omar Hakim, Alex Acuna, Zakir Hussain, Aloke Dutta, Paco Sery, Elvin Jones, Peter Erskin, Steve Gadd, FM Einheit, Chad Wackerman, Martin Atkins, cEvin Cey, Yukihiro Takahashi, Stewart Copeland, Tommy Aldridge, and Dennis Chambers as my major influences.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Q - What drumming material would you recommend studying?
A - I can only say what worked for me. This is very subjective and a good instructor is very important in finding your weaknesses and applying the right curriculum. I benefited greatly from doing various rudimental exercises and studies for my hands along with working out of these books with my teachers:
"Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer" by Jim Chapin
"Four Way Coordination" by Elliot Fine and Marvin Dahlgren
"New Breed" by Gary Chester</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Q: When I asked my teacher if he had heard your playing he said that he doesn't condone your negative message. I responded that in my ten years of listening to your music I have yet to find anything negative and asked him if it was because of your occult fascination. He said it was and that alloccult is evil/"satanic". This bothers me because this is a man who has been studying rhythm his whole life and cant come to appreciate what you play because of some conviction. What would you say?
A: Unfortunately, I have found that there is not much you can say to people like your teacher. For some, knowledge is a scary thing that could tear down the walls of their little fortress they have spent many years building and reinforcing around themselves, so its much easier to label something as "evil" rather than have their security jeopardized, and leave themselves vulnerable to infinite chaos. I have found that courage is always rewarded when trying to find truth and beauty for what it is, rather than what someone has told you it is. I say always trust in your own divinity and your explorations will not go unfulfilled, and by the way, the word occult simply means hidden.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Q - How did your lessons with Aloke Dutta benefit you in your development as a drummer?
A - The benefits that first come to mind were an increased comfort with poly-rhythms and hemiolas, an improved inner clock development, increased finger dexterity, and a vastly extended drumming vocabulary. The benefits of learning a whole other drumming language are too numerous to mention here, but could be likened to a history or literature scholar learning another language. Suddenly you have another whole world opened up before you and the hard part is not getting completely lost in it. If you have the time there's nothing wrong with that, but finding connections that were applicable to my goals made more sense to me. The challenge now is to keep from spreading myself too thin. An entire lifetime could easily be spent on studying Tabla and east Indian music, and Aloke is an extremely well versed teacher that makes this very obvious.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 31, 2003 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>
Although not a Danny Carey post, a quick post for those interested in Aloke Dutta. I saw him in Nashville a few years ago at the Nashville Percussion Institute. He was playing with Roy 'Futureman' Wooten.(Futureman was playing assorted percussion and even drumset for a bit, no electronic stuff) Aloke was on fire!!! First tabla player I'd seen in person. He played his version of Max Roach's 'For Big Sid' and the needle was in the red!!!! The variety of sounds coming from those two small drums was staggering and after a brief moment of contemplating putting my DWs on Ebay I was inspired to try to coax more sounds from my kit.
If I'm not mistaken Gregg Bissonette has studied with Aloke.
"For sum "extra info" Carey formed a "super group" with Claypool(ex Primus)and Belew(King Crimson)" Bozzio, did they make a recording?
Clint
im not sure man....it hasn't been released to my knowledge [img]frown.gif[/img]
Five Eight: Danny Carey is Forty Two years old.
Danny's drumming caught my attention on the track Eulogy, Some very nice playing on there. He opens and closes his hat on the dotted eighth throughout this one groove in four (hat resolves every 3 beats though.) Its prety hard and sounds very cool.
I borrowed that CD and that was the only tune that really stuck with me. I think bands can get it right on some tunes, where all their forte's come together and create a large powerful sum. Eulogy is such a tune. The other tunes didnt grab me as much. I guess that's the nature of a "hit" though. That was a sort of breakthrough tune for them.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 01, 2003 03:50 AM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font>
There's some serious riffin' going on on Undertow. That album is probably the least impressive from a drum standpoint, but the riffs and general grooves are killer. I also dig the first track off of Lateralus. Nice blowing section at the end. High intensity.
...Carey... GOOD player in that style [even tho i used to get into this sort of vibe, it's a little too dark overall 4 my tastes these daze]... NO comparison to Peart or Portnoy, other than to say he sounds as ole Neil wouldve if he studied jazz [& moreso fusion] quite a bit more... DC has more chops aw... but certain of his approaches to certain of his beats DO seem to evoke fond memories of what i like to call the "Neilness" ["glimpses"/similarities of Glories Past ;=) ]... [& even tho i did likeded Neil's energy & ballsiness - at that time, i DID INDEEDY likeded thaaaat]... & WAY more interesting & uniquely individul [AND less cliche] than Portly [ [img]wink.gif[/img] ]... Sherinian went from Portannoy to Do-Naughty... that's like going from a disco drum machine loop to - well, say - finding the Ark of the Covenant, or somethin'!! [ooooo... i know THAT'S gonna pee some peeps off... Sowwy...] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[Awww... just have a [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img] & a slice a' [img]graemlins/pizza.gif[/img] & fa-GIT abowdit awreddy! ;=) ]...
As 4 d occult sh**; i could shiv a git... this is a forum about drumming & music, not the "metaphysical dispensations of spacial frequencies, oblisks, & astal planes, as it relates to the space-time continuum, as told by Squirrely McLaine, Dionne Warwick, Willy Wonka, Madame Cleo, the Kookie Monsta, & Big Boid [all currently residing at 1313 Mockingbird Ln, off of Yellow Brick Road, Land of Oz, 66666"]... [Bert n Ernie are still holdin' fast...]
...hey - I'VE got something "hidden" in my DRAWERS [aka "britches"]... maybe it's a meta-asstral-physical potato... a cosmic "Mista Potato Head," of sorts...or maybe just a "Tater Tot," er... Trouser Trout...er... [looks like there's somethings resembling pentagrams on it [shudder] - OOOooooooWEEEeeeeooooo]... HEY... it's doin' inverse flamadiddles at 360 bpms! [shocker!]... maybe it's just a "Party in Fusey's Pants"...
...[just addin' a lil spice to the ole forums... "just a' makin' freeyends & inFLOOencin' peoples" :=) :=p ]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 04, 2003 02:28 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>