-
Just wondering how those of you who are
here in CA, the (tarnished) Golden State,
are dealing with the stepdown in octane.
For those of you who aren't here: starting
around July, 92 octane premium disappeared
from our pumps. The highest you can find now
is 91. Dishwater 91. My GSR rattles like a
castanet with the stuff and it's not running
a turbo or S/C!
From the (patronizing, self-serving, dumb,
dishonest) Tosco press release, we have this:
"Is 91 octane adequate for high performance vehicles?
Tosco anticipates 91 octane gasoline should meet the needs of almost all premium 76 gasoline customers."
Yeah, right.
Guess they don't deal with many customers
on forced induction. The last blown car I
drove needed 93 -minimum- to keep from
melting its piston tops.
My experience has been that most octane
boosters sold OTC are pretty much expensive
junk. Plus they are usually MMT these days.
Nasty stuff.
Chris
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Yeah I totally agree 91 Octane just suck
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G? ?嚆 ֮ G?? ?嚆!!!
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For anybody who lives in the bay area, there's a 76 station on almaden that sells 100 octane at the pump. I believe it's about $4.00 or so for a gallon.
Directions:
Take 87s to Capitol expressway. Make a right on Capitol Expwy. Take Capitol to Almaden Expwy. Make right on Almaden Expwy. 76 will be on your right.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Corpse:
For anybody who lives in the bay area, there's a 76 station on almaden that sells 100 octane at the pump. I believe it's about $4.00 or so for a gallon.
Directions:
Take 87s to Capitol expressway. Make a right on Capitol Expwy. Take Capitol to Almaden Expwy. Make right on Almaden Expwy. 76 will be on your right.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Damn it's good to be in a non-nazi state where I can go to Sunoco and fill up on 94 octane at the pump for $2 a gallon or less.
Y'all need to move out of california! Then while they try to figure out why their tax revenues are dropping, you can be running with advanced timing on your blown 'teg, AND eat a burger in a restaurant cooked RARE, while SMOKING at the bar!
Cheers,
Ben
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99 Prelude SH
--------------------
The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by little ones and zeros, little bits of data---it's all just electrons.
-
I hear ya brotha!
With 91 octane my J&S lights up 2 once in a while. 104 and other cheaper boosters did nothing for the detonation. I used NOS racing formula and the J&S hasn't lit up. Highly recommended but at $10 a pop.
Just FYI there is a 76 in South Pasadena that also sells 100 octane. It's at the very end of the 110 north. Can't miss it.
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HAWAIIAN BUILT...BUT
...STUCK IN L.A.
-
I know what I would do if I lived in your land of earthquakes, fires, mud slides, riots and low octane. I would definately be running a good quality octane booster and be done with it. Nos is a good brand as well as many other. So relax and BOOST! Octane boost that is. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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"99" GSR Emerald green sedan/stock rear spoiler-6 psi /JRSC,Walbro 255 lph fuel pump,AEM CAI,Comptech stainless 4-2-1 header,Comptech stainless exhaust,MSD 8.8 ignition wires, power blaster coil and MSD 6AL multi-spark ingnition, Comptech upper strut brace, Comptech integrated 22mm rear sway bar with tie bar, Comptech sport springs,DC short throw shifter, JR btc and map controller, chrome KMC Tarantula wheels on Toyo 205/45ZR 16" Proxes T1S tires, Power Stop cross drilled rotors, metal master brake pads, stainless steel brake lines, KYB/AGX struts, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Piaa 1700 plantinum driving lights w/Pia Super whites replacement bulbs,walnut woodtrim interior
-
OK, this thread seems on topic to this so I'll finally ask. I haven't noticed any difference with the 91 octane and wouldn't think anyone would that could run at 92 without a problem, unless you're running right at the edge http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif.
That said, I tried some octane boost, including when I had my car dynoed, but noticed (what a surprise http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif ) that my car was running extremely rich (i.e. 11:1 even down to 10:1 at top end when I was running about 12.5 to 1 without octane boost). Now, I'm not the most technically inclined here, but usually overly rich=less power. The other thing I noticed is that even though it was rich, it did not allow me to run any less timing retard on my BTC or affect my part throttle detonation under load problem.
So, my question to the more technically inclined is if you run octane boost all the time, wouldn't you also have to modify the car's setup in terms of fuel pressure, timing, etc. for it to have a positive effect? Or do I have some other problem I haven't figured out?
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[This message has been edited by cpa (edited September 06, 2001).]
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With as much as these robs charge us for gas (have you noticed 91 is about as expensive as 92), $10 of NOS octane boost isn't bad. I was paying $2.00+ per gallon anyhow so it doesn't seem too bad.
Regardless I'd like to thank the jerkoffs who decided it would help the environment to have 91 octane.
It also pisses me off that they charge us more claiming it takes longer to get gas to us when in other parts of the country pay less yet they have gasoline shipped from much farther areas.
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Silvino
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From the info I've gathered and conversations I've had, 1 octane point is usually good for roughly 2 degrees of timing as a general rule.
On my car, retarding the timing by 2 degrees in the midrange resulted in a roughly 5whp loss in that region. In the dyno graph below, at 4000 rpm, the green line is retarded a max of 2 deg from 2500 to 5000. The blue and red lines have no retard in that region.
http://www.muller.net/sonny/dyno/scdyno2.jpg
Sonny
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Sonny Van Hook ([email protected])
2000 JRSC'd Civic Si @ 6psi (Powered by Hondata)
1999 Tonykart/Honda 80cc Shifter
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Yes, it definitely sucks ass.
I got my MAP and BTC installed just in time apparently (before the last of the 92 pumps disappeared). The MAP will definitely help those poor CA JRSC 'teg drivers. No pings here. My BTC is probably dialed in more than it used to be also . . . bastards!
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Santa Barbara, CA
2001 4-dr GSR, 6psi JRSC, AEM CAI, DC 4-2-1, Greddy exhaust, B&M FP Gague, JR BTC & MAP Controller
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 217gsr:
I'm also running 91 octane with stock timing (6psi JRSC GSR). I have a BTC, but it's set at 0 right now.
By the way, why is MMT bad? What is MMT??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl.
Basically a replacement for good old
tetraethyl lead. Has health effects similar
to what lead did to brains and bodies (ugly).
I wouldn't want to breathe it out of someone
else's exhaust.
Allegedly does not poison catalysts the way
that TEL did. Does reportedly cake up on
spark plugs and valves. I would avoid it.
There is a further real bummer in all this.
It's perfectly possible to formulate clean
green gasoline of high octane and sell it
for a reasonable price. Ask any chemical
engineer with the right background.
Unfortunately, our elected representatives
in the political system found it made their
campaign contributors very happy when they
insisted that gasoline have oxygenates in
it to, quote, "clean the air".
Never mind that they -don't- clean the air
and that the National Academy of Sciences
agrees that they don't.
No, oxygenates mandatory! That means MTBE
or ethanol. MTBE is a petrochemical product
(big profits for oil companies) and ethanol
mostly comes from refined corn (big profits
for agribusiness).
Eventually MTBE turns out to be a pretty
hideous poison and groundwater contaminant
(which was never considered when Congress
insisted it go in our gas). And sorta kinda
a monster carcinogen. Ooops. Bye-bye MTBE.
So now Californians get rogered on octane
because ethanol is required. It's not that
ethanol itself causes detonation. If you
use enough it'll boost octane. But it is
the COST of adding the eth that kills us.
The refiners end up using a cheaper process
for the gasoline itself, to offset the high
cost of the ethanol they have to purchase
to blend in.
Your government at work.
Chris
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-
I'm running stock timing with no problems.
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-
I'm also running 91 octane with stock timing (6psi JRSC GSR). I have a BTC, but it's set at 0 right now.
By the way, why is MMT bad? What is MMT??
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-
I blocked off the EGR and bypassed the coolant from the Tbody to help keep intake temps down to help reduce the chances of detonation.
------------------
Marc
Want to know why I got rid of the JRSC? http://crx.honda-perf.org/horror/jrsc.html
Coming soon: A new member to the 12 second club.
http://www.qualityinspection.com/Pat/burnout[1].gif http://www.qualityinspection.com/Pat/burnout[1].gif http://www.qualityinspection.com/Pat/burnout[1].gif http://www.qualityinspection.com/Pat/burnout[1].gif
AIM=spoolyn
[This message has been edited by Marc (edited September 07, 2001).]
-
Wow. . .that was a really good explanation Chris Thorne. Thanks!
Which leads me to another question. . . what percentage ethanol would one want to add to gasoline to make it a higher octane. I work at a lab and 200 proof ethanol comes a dime-a-dozen. I've also heard that toluene can be used.
Hey, if I could mix my own high octane gas, that would be great!!!! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Thorne:
Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl.
<snip>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow...that explanation rocked! You da man! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Sonny Van Hook ([email protected])
2000 JRSC'd Civic Si @ 6psi (Powered by Hondata)
1999 Tonykart/Honda 80cc Shifter
-
I find myself wondering what the massive attraction in California is...
lets see...earthquakes, riots, expensive low octane gas, floods, fires, mudslides...
I am happily staying right here in Florida where 93 octane is plentiful, hurricanes are rare, and it's always racing season http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
------------------
-JG-
-1994 Civic EX-
-Block in the shop, turbo in the closet!-
-vapor-trail.net-
-
Chris Thorne, do you play guitar by chance?
------------------
Fred G.
'97 Civic EX supercharged http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/track/4059
Beech 1900D driver...2,558 shp, 10,000+ ft./lbs. tq., top speed 331 mph :)
-
Marc,
EGR is not a bad thing. If you can believe it, recirculating the exhaust gas actually lowers the temperature of your intake charge and reduces detonation. It also reduces octane requirements. That's why all super high compression engines have it. It's also why a stock Camaro with 10.5:1 compression can run on 87 octane. It's not just there to reduce NOx. If you don't believe my expert engineer opinion, check this link on detonation.
http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm
BEEOTCH!
------------------
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VaporTrail:
I find myself wondering what the massive attraction in California is...
lets see...earthquakes, riots, expensive low octane gas, floods, fires, mudslides...
I am happily staying right here in Florida where 93 octane is plentiful, hurricanes are rare, and it's always racing season http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't you know that in California, it's always sunny, all of the women are beautiful, everyone surfs all day long, and there is no crime.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
Sonny
------------------
Sonny Van Hook ([email protected])
2000 JRSC'd Civic Si @ 6psi (Powered by Hondata)
1999 Tonykart/Honda 80cc Shifter
-
CALI IS THE BOMB!!!
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-
Nah, we lack women and those that exist are either ugly or are greedier than we are.
Crime? OMG, where do you live?
BUT we live withint 1-2 hours of any type of climate. Most of us live in a valley with killer year around weather, beach 30 mins away, forest 1 hour (redwood a fewhours), snow 1 hour away, mountains 15 mins away, and I could go on andon but yeah.
Cali sucks for gas, cost of living, and traffic. The rest of the stuff mentioned isn't so bad.
------------------
Silvino
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bobbrown:
Marc,
EGR is not a bad thing. If you can believe it, recirculating the exhaust gas actually lowers the temperature of your intake charge and reduces detonation. It also reduces octane requirements. That's why all super high compression engines have it. It's also why a stock Camaro with 10.5:1 compression can run on 87 octane. It's not just there to reduce NOx. If you don't believe my expert engineer opinion, check this link on detonation.
http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm
BEEOTCH!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
bobbrown,
I read that link that you provided but it doesn't make any sense. How would inducing hot gases into an intake manifold and thus increasing the temps inside the manifold lead to less detonation? We all know a cooler charge is more dense and will provide an environment for more horsepower. So how would adding hot gases to the mix create an increase in HP? I read the part about diluting the mixture but by adding more exhaust gas you would be adding hot air which would create a leaner charge. Which now that I'm thinking about it would increase NoX. Am I missing something here?
Besides, I can tell the difference. When the EGR was properly functioning on my car, you could get a 2nd degree burn by simply touching the intake manifold. With the EGR blocked the manifold is noticeably cooler. It is very warm but not burning hot as it was before. The intake manifold is definitely cooler after the EGR blockoff. Admittedly I also blocked off the coolant from the throttle body so this may have an effect as well.
Marc
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I thought the EGR was used to swirl a lean, non-WOT air/fuel mix so it burned better, allowing the engine to run leaner.
Never heard anything about reducing detonation. With SR20DET swaps in Nissan's, the EGR pipe is usually not reinstalled and people boost the crap out of that stock engine (15-17psi).
------------------
Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC @10psi, All the Goodies!
Best 1/4 ==> 13.556 @ 105.29mph
My JRSC Install Site
-
BTW: Just filled up with 94 octane. $1.61/gallon.
Everybody sing along with Frank... Duh, duh, duh-da-duh, duh, duh, duh-da-duh, duh, New York, New York!!!
------------------
Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC @10psi, All the Goodies!
Best 1/4 ==> 13.556 @ 105.29mph
My JRSC Install Site
-
Hell! Who wants to live in New York? Talk about crime and nasty people. Wasn't the mayor of New York City so concerned about people not being friendly that they started a media blitz to make people more friendly. Thank god I live in Mass. BTW we have all the Sunoco 94 octane gas you want, and we don't have to live in New York. LOL http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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"99" GSR Emerald green sedan/stock rear spoiler-6 psi /JRSC,Walbro 255 lph fuel pump,AEM CAI,Comptech stainless 4-2-1 header,Comptech stainless exhaust,MSD 8.8 ignition wires, power blaster coil and MSD 6AL multi-spark ingnition, Comptech upper strut brace, Comptech integrated 22mm rear sway bar with tie bar, Comptech sport springs,DC short throw shifter, JR btc and map controller, chrome KMC Tarantula wheels on Toyo 205/45ZR 16" Proxes T1S tires, Power Stop cross drilled rotors, metal master brake pads, stainless steel brake lines, KYB/AGX struts, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Piaa 1700 plantinum driving lights w/Pia Super whites replacement bulbs,walnut woodtrim interior
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by acuraboy:
I'm running stock timing with no problems.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Check your plugs. Not all detonation is audible.
Marc
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by registry:
Hell! Who wants to live in New York? Talk about crime and nasty people. Wasn't the mayor of New York City so concerned about people not being friendly that they started a media blitz to make people more friendly. Thank god I live in Mass. BTW we have all the Sunoco 94 octane gas you want, and we don't have to live in New York. LOL http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately it's not $1.67. That's the price of 93 around here. 94 seems to go for $1.80+. Of course, that's still a fire sale compared to CA.
------------------
99 Prelude SH
--------------------
The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by little ones and zeros, little bits of data---it's all just electrons.
-
Well the beauty of chicago is we get the shitty weather and high gas prices, premium 93 is 2.20 a gallon!!!!!!!!!!! this sucks, we get snow and high gas, there is really VERY little to like about this city now, bad mayor, high taxes, bad weather (i think i sadi that 3 times now). I was just in San Francicso and Carmel for a week, hell I decided I need to move out there. Was at Laguna Raceway, what a gorgeous track, and the weather was wonderful, we could get heat if we wanted it by driving east, but otherwise 75 was the hottest. The roads are great and twisty, had fun in my rental Buick Regal that was SC, and the scenary is absolutely awesome with whales and otters in the ocean and the bay. I really loved it there and I think once I am done with school and residency it will be time to move out to California. By then there should be good gas there http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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Steve
97 GSR SC
All go and little show
-
come join us! and bring lots of 94 octane with you!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteveW:
Well the beauty of chicago is we get the shitty weather and high gas prices, premium 93 is 2.20 a gallon!!!!!!!!!!! this sucks, we get snow and high gas, there is really VERY little to like about this city now, bad mayor, high taxes, bad weather (i think i sadi that 3 times now). I was just in San Francicso and Carmel for a week, hell I decided I need to move out there. Was at Laguna Raceway, what a gorgeous track, and the weather was wonderful, we could get heat if we wanted it by driving east, but otherwise 75 was the hottest. The roads are great and twisty, had fun in my rental Buick Regal that was SC, and the scenary is absolutely awesome with whales and otters in the ocean and the bay. I really loved it there and I think once I am done with school and residency it will be time to move out to California. By then there should be good gas there http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Just bought a pack of Outlaw Octane Booster by Pennzoil. Comes in a 4-pack for around $10.00. So far, no complaints. Well, my car was running pretty good with the 91 octane and stock timing, but I figure, even if I can raise my octane 1 point, that would help. Hell, at $2.50 per tank, I would think that this product is worth it.
Anyone else use this product?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteveW:
Well the beauty of chicago is we get the shitty ...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, I gotta go a training session in Chicago in January. I think I leave like January 7th, and the class is a week. Unfortunately, I'm going by myself... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif However, maybe we can meet up and hang or whatnot. Otherwise, i'll be strolling around in the big city totally lost. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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fuknboostn
-
You're all spoiled with that high octane http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
The Mile High city offers 91 octane for "premium". Your other choices are 87 and 85. Just like anywhere else, race gas is available here too for a price.
As justification for these local octane numbers, (maybe confirm the obviously educated Chris Thorne), I believe I read somewhere a couple years ago that octane requirement was related to altitude (air density, oxygen content?).
From that perspective (which may be totally wrong), it's hard to see the logic in the Californian decision to reduce octane since your 5000+ ft. below me right now.
-TJ
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The octane number is just the gasoline's measurable ability to survive compression. But I'm sure you already know that. So the higher the compression of the engine, the higher the minimum octane requirement. Every car is unique -- my JSRC'ed GS-R runs fine on 91 and 10BTC timing with no detonation. Other cars with the same setup may require more timing retard. I have friends at Chevron who are chemical engineers and their explanation for the reduction of octane in California was as follows: The state wanted to reduce the amount of toxic additives used in the production of gasoline. Many of these additives directly relate to the octane rating of gasoline. The reduction called for all "premium" gasolines to be reduced to 91 begining the first week of July.
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I poured some 94 octane gas onto a campfire that had no flames, but glowing red coals.
Instead of the flames I was hoping for, it just stopped the coals from glowing red!
I couldn't believe it. Talk about heat resistant gas!
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Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC @10psi, All the Goodies!
Best 1/4 ==> 13.556 @ 105.29mph
My JRSC Install Site
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I've heard that gasoline isn't really that flammable unless 1. it is surrounded by its own vapors and/or 2. it is under pressure.
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