SMOKING BAN
Could be happening very very soon.
[img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
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SMOKING BAN
Could be happening very very soon.
[img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
We have had such a ban in Florida for a year now, went into effect right after I moved here. It's state wide here. No smoking inside ANY public building, restaurant or bar. Loophole is, ofcourse, patio dining/drinking. No smoking within 25 feet of entrances of my building here at work.
You know, I don't smoke, and I really can't tolerate being around it too much (call me a wuss if you will, but my eyes water, I get a headache, etc.; that's the main reason I don't bowl much, which is a good thing for Boo Boo otherwise I'd be constantly beating the hell out of she and Alison at Colerain Bowl)
But that said...
It's getting to be ridiculous. Not to sound like Mr. Civil Libertarian here, but if a private business wants to allow smoking, that should be its business to do so. The market will determine whether that is a prudent choice.
No one ever accounts for the slippery slope argument. You think it will end with cigarettes? Think again.
Quite honestly, we live in a country where we have too many people with nothing to do. I say, bring back the draft, take those losers at thetruth.com and ship their sorry asses to Iraq. Maybe then they'll realize it wasn't so bad here after all.
I am SO for the smoking ban.
I'm allergic to smoke. If exposed to dense concentrations of it for say an hour or so, I end up with a nasty sinus infection that lasts for two weeks.
I'll bust someone's chops if I hear about "smokers' rights."
What is a smoker's right?
The right to pollute perfectly clean air in confined spaces?
The right to transfer the smell of their smoke to the point that clothes must be removed at the first possible moment and that coats remain in the car on cold winter evenings so they aren't exposed to smoke odors?
The right to make others' eyes watery?
The right to make others' throats sore?
I have a right to clean air. Smokers don't have a right to pollute it. They don't have a right to affect my health.
Here's to a smoking ban!
I have been smoking cigars since I was 11 yrs old. But I never smoke within the confines of my home or in a closed vehicle.
While I understand Lew's point of view, I gotta side with Reason on this one.
Farting may be offensive to others, but as a gassy person, I like to fart. All that pressure builds up, and it becomes quite painful. Ahh, release is quite pleasurable, if not necessary.
Personally, I find second hand smoke as offensive as most would find farting.
But since *I* like it and there's no law against it, I suppose smokers would have no problem with me passing a big fat one in their face.
I think I have a lot in common with smokers. Farting and smoking are quite similar, except I'm not sure the release of a fart is as unhealthy (feel free to discuss that point).
Farters and smokers UNITE!
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 10, 2004 10:47 AM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At least for you...Quote:
I think I have a lot in common with smokers. Farting and smoking are quite similar
Good analogy Reason. The next time I'm at a restaurant and have to inhale second hand smoke that wafts over me and my food, I'll get up and cut a fart near the smoker. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Tit for tat!!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly.Quote:
Originally posted by Jumper69:
Good analogy Reason. The next time I'm at a restaurant and have to inhale second hand smoke that wafts over me and my food, I'll get up and cut a fart near the smoker. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Tit for tat!!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At least for you...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well I did say that smoking and being exposed to second hand smoke is significantly more unhealthy than farting or being exposed to a fart...unless the fart is close enough that others are exposed to microbes.Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Gull:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I have a lot in common with smokers. Farting and smoking are quite similar
Well I'm thinking a cigarette holder like FDR used to use would look a lot less sophisticated sticking out of someone's ass in a classy nightclub for expelling gas than used as a cigarette or cigarrello holder. [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]
In a way I almost side with Lew, and I understand his point.
I, myself am a non smoker so it wont bother me a bit to have it banned.
I see the return of the private smokers clubs on the horizon, where they use a loophole by esablishing a "members only" identity for a place so that it becomes a haven for those who wish to smoke. I can also see someone perhaps fighting for a "smokers liscense" much like a alcohol liscnse. Where a business would have to apply for the right to allow smokers and pay for that right.
This country makes a ton of tax dollars off alcohol and tobacco sales, and that is always going to be true.
I wouldn't want anything to do with any club that would accept me as a member. [img]cool.gif[/img]
LOL!
Some area businesses that rely heavily on Cigar smokers are I'm sure watching this even closer.
But, it's gonna happen.
It should be up to the businesses. It's ludicrous for the gov't to threaten the livelihood of so many small business owners. Businesses are free to make themselves smokefree right now. The choice is theirs. No need to force them.
This should be great for Indiana and Kentucky. Hey! Another benefit ..... people that have been drinking can drive longer distances.
We all know that sunlight causes cancer so why don't we make it illegal to go outside during the day.
Running is bad for the knees so no more running.
Power lawnmowers cause air and noise pollution, from now on everyone will cut their grass by hand.
Sugar, carbs and meat make you fat so we might as well close all restaurants because all we can eat is raw oats.
Liquor is bad for you and when your drunk you could puke on someone, so let's not allow liqueur at Bars.
Reason I forgot just what a weird fucker you are.. http://www.hostboard.com/forums/ (Sorry Sluggo)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]Quote:
We all know that sunlight causes cancer so why don't we make it illegal to go outside during the day
All of those things you mentioned Trav affect INDIVIDUALS.
Second hand smoke affects multitudes of others. Big difference IMHO.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No one is an island. I think Trav's point is that the other things, while affecting individuals, also impact society as a whole.Quote:
Originally posted by Jumper69:
All of those things you mentioned Trav affect INDIVIDUALS.
Second hand smoke affects multitudes of others. Big difference IMHO.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry I don't see it. If you can explain to me how my running affects the health of another person, I'll buy it. Or drinking (other than the occasional puke on a shirt or something) for that matter.Quote:
No one is an island. I think Trav's point is that the other things, while affecting individuals, also impact society as a whole.
If my eating skyline 3 times a day for the rest of my life gives YOU cancer, I'll stop.
See my point?? I'll listen if you explain yours better. I'm kind of slow you know.. [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 10, 2004 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Jumper69 ]</font>
Any behaviors, be it sunbathing or over eating or drinking or smoking or exercising too much and having a heart attack or not exercising enough and having a heart attack put a strain on the health care system. Whether you are covered or not (that was another discussion) it puts a strain on the system as a whole. Then again being healthy and living to retirement age is going to bankrupt social security so maybe smokers should be given some kind of tax credit....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are so stretching it.Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Gull:
Any behaviors, be it sunbathing or over eating or drinking or smoking or exercising too much and having a heart attack or not exercising enough and having a heart attack put a strain on the health care system. Whether you are covered or not (that was another discussion) it puts a strain on the system as a whole. Then again being healthy and living to retirement age is going to bankrupt social security so maybe smokers should be given some kind of tax credit....
Actually, I think trav is right. I've changed my mind.
While we're at it, we should legalize public intoxication, and driving under the influence. Afterall, drinking while driving is a choice one makes, and that's no one else's business. And hey, if someone wants to puke up beer in the middle of a restaurant, I certainly think it's their right. If someone wants to puke on a stranger, that's perfectly ok, too. Why should anyone infringe on my right to get nasty drunk and feel good about myself?
That's what I like about trav...he really thinks things through. Trav is smart.
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 10, 2004 05:36 PM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>
Originally posted by reason:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Somebody has to, no one else will..Quote:
You are so stretching it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Somebody has to, no one else will..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe that's because you're too boring. I've heard you're so boring, your hand falls asleep.Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Gull:
Originally posted by reason:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are so stretching it.
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 10, 2004 04:30 PM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>
Correction: Hands. It's a 2 hand job.
I agree with Lew on this one. Let the business owners make their own decisions.
I'm a smoker, but I work in a non smoking office. I survive.
A number of the restaurants Trav and I like and frequent are totally non smoking. I survive.
Trav always has non-smoking rooms and cars, and when I used to accompany him on business trips, I survived.
I understand the points that have been raised in this thread, but if you are offended by an establishment allowing smoking, DON'T GO. And when you decide to take your dollars elsewhere, send a letter to the smoking-allowed place and let them know why you aren't there.
If enough people do that, the establishments will go smoke free without interference from the <s>morons downtown</s> City Council.
That being said, I really, really think Cincinnati has a few more pressing problems. How many murders already this year?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I avoid places I know are smokey. But I also go to these very same places when social functions are planned there. I don't see why I'm the one who should alter my behavior when it's the other person who is being rude and antisocial.Quote:
Originally posted by gae:
I agree with Lew on this one. Let the business owners make their own decisions.
I'm a smoker, but I work in a non smoking office. I survive.
A number of the restaurants Trav and I like and frequent are totally non smoking. I survive.
Trav always has non-smoking rooms and cars, and when I used to accompany him on business trips, I survived.
I understand the points that have been raised in this thread, but if you are offended by an establishment allowing smoking, DON'T GO. And when you decide to take your dollars elsewhere, send a letter to the smoking-allowed place and let them know why you aren't there.
If enough people do that, the establishments will go smoke free without interference from the <s>morons downtown</s> City Council.
That being said, I really, really think Cincinnati has a few more pressing problems. How many murders already this year?
The right to clean air trumps anyone's right to blow smoke in your face, pollute your lungs.
Using Gae's "logic," one should avoid just about any restaurant, almost all bars.
Case in point. For my dad's birthday, we made reservations at the Hofbrauhaus. Now my understanding is that at the real Hofbrauhaus they put cigarettes in jars on the tables.
In Newport's Hofbrau, there's a nonsmoking room, and a smoking room. The nonsmoking room was off to the side. The smoking room was in the main room with the band. Everyone, of course, came to see the band and sing along, so we moved to the main room. Afterall, that's why you go to the Hofbrauhaus - to see the entertainment (it certainly isn't for the food).
So we sat with some asshole (and I sincerely mean asshole) behind us chain smoking throughout the entire meal.
I don't care if it's commonplace. It's downright rude. It's antisocial. It's not right.
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 10, 2004 05:35 PM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sure we could come up with a sophisticated way to fart. I suppose I could put on an air of superiority, discuss the latest in art and politics...and delicately let one rip as I conduct and indepth discussion on whether Ronald Reagan was a rehashed Keynesian or really a supply sider...Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Gull:
Well I'm thinking a cigarette holder like FDR used to use would look a lot less sophisticated sticking out of someone's ass in a classy nightclub for expelling gas than used as a cigarette or cigarrello holder. [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's a slippery slope, reason. What else is going to be banned because it's rude and antisocial?Quote:
I don't care if it's commonplace. It's downright rude. It's antisocial. It's not right.
To me it's simple. This issue is not about smoking, it's about government control over capitalism. If someone is driving drunk they are an immediate danger to everyone on the road. You can't just pull your car over, get out and chose to take a bus. You can chose to go to a different restaurant or bar.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What Trav said.Quote:
Originally posted by travelinman:
To me it's simple. This issue is not about smoking, it's about government control over capitalism. If someone is driving drunk they are an immediate danger to everyone on the road. You can't just pull your car over, get out and chose to take a bus. You can chose to go to a different restaurant or bar.
It's like the anti-porn laws. After all porn is "harmful" to society, degrades women, causes moral disintegration, blah blah blah.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's a slippery slope, reason. What else is going to be banned because it's rude and antisocial?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok...let me put it this way. If an establishment is going to allow smoking and is open to the general public, it better provide an environment that is reasonably healthy. That would eliminate any number of bars and restaurants in this city.Quote:
Originally posted by gae:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't care if it's commonplace. It's downright rude. It's antisocial. It's not right.
The air in one's establishment should not make its clietele ill. Opening one's doors and saying "everyone's welcome" implies they aren't going to give you lung cancer along the way, just so they can appease someone else's filthy addiction.
I'd love for the Board of Health to start taking air samples in some of these places.
Your argument, "Just go someplace else" doesn't fly either. Especially in the case of bars, there isn't "someplace else."
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 11, 2004 10:15 AM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At least you inadvertantly admitted smoking is a danger to others by telling us to go elsewhere.Quote:
Originally posted by travelinman:
If someone is driving drunk they are an immediate danger to everyone on the road. You can't just pull your car over, get out and chose to take a bus. You can chose to go to a different restaurant or bar.
Fuck the smokers. They're the one's doing the polluting. Tell them to go elsewhere.
Smoking isn't a right.
I've spent years going "elsewhere," and I'll be damned if there's yet another smoker who plops himself down nearby in that next "elsewhere." Which is immediately followed by "You've been around smokers, haven't you?" by the next person I see.
And I think you've got a weird, warped view of capitalism. It's not supposed to kill you.
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 11, 2004 10:24 AM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's a slippery slope, reason. What else is going to be banned because it's rude and antisocial?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Public intoxicationQuote:
Originally posted by gae:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't care if it's commonplace. It's downright rude. It's antisocial. It's not right.
Disorderly conduct
Indecent exposure
Littering
Noise
Tresspassing
I suppose you are for these, huh gae? Must be why you pick Northside to live.
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ June 11, 2004 10:23 AM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What Trav said.Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Gull:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by travelinman:
To me it's simple. This issue is not about smoking, it's about government control over capitalism. If someone is driving drunk they are an immediate danger to everyone on the road. You can't just pull your car over, get out and chose to take a bus. You can chose to go to a different restaurant or bar.
It's like the anti-porn laws. After all porn is "harmful" to society, degrades women, causes moral disintegration, blah blah blah.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then why not put it on billboards, sell it on the magazine rack with Time at the UDF, put it on prime time television, distribute free samples at every McDonald's, Frisch's, and Chuck E, Cheese's in America?
Sounds reasonable to me.
There are no cigarettes in jars on the tables at the real hofbrauhaus.
I now return you to your debate....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you, I stand corrected. I think it was an all night wedding my brother went to in Germany.Quote:
Originally posted by Jumper69:
There are no cigarettes in jars on the tables at the real hofbrauhaus.
I now return you to your debate....