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Hi all. I'm working out of the Chapin book and I'm having trouble grasping how to play straight 8th's under the basic jazz ride cymbal pattern. The main problem being how to keep the swing pulse strong and not reverting to a mechanical 1 1&2 1&2 etc. Any suggestions on how to tackle this? Thanks in advance
I've always swung the 8ths in the Chapin book. The same way that you'd interpret 8th note figures in a swing chart.
Best,
Andy
same here with Chapin's book, all swung. especially true when you do the short / long note thing with snare & kick.
GBG
If you were to look at a bar of eight 8th notes and were to play them all it would sound like your standard shuffle. In other words the 8ths would be played as the first and last notes of the triplet. That's how to swing them.
The 8ths in this section are meant to be played STRAIGHT against the swung cymbal rythm. Swinging them would make these exercises quite senseless.
My suggestion:
Incorporate the cymbal swing pattern so that you are able to keep it going fluently without even thinking about it (watch TV or even try to read a newspaper or a book while swinging to a click ...).
Start this section with playing the patterns as written in the key (right column). Playing them this way doesn?t really swing but it helps understanding where the strokes fall together etc. After having mastered this, work on the swing feel.
hth
If you are a starter at jazz independence and you don?t have a teacher, I would suggest to use another book.
I know Chapin?s text is a classic but it?s not that clear if you work alone out of it.
I?d recommend John Riley?s book ?The art of bop drumming?. Clearly explained and all the exercices are played on a CD so you get to hear the phrasing.
Russ millers transitions book with cd too. or the Great Mr erskines videos/books.
You play/learn them both ways, that way you have your arse covered.
It aint hard is it. This is hardly horatio sh*t playing them at a really slow tempo.
To be honest, i like the sound of straight eighths against the swung feel, it adds interest and sounds 'against' the feel when really, its just a perseption.
Learn it/them both ways then switch hands.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 11, 2003 03:01 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]</font>
No, they are meant to be played with a swing feel. You aren't going to encounter many gigs were you are playing straight eighths under a swinging ride cymbal pattern. They are to be swung, not played straight.
My teacher made me do it both ways because when I played the straight 8ths, it made me phrase my ride pattern in a dotted 8th-16th way as opposed to the triplety sound. Some tunes sound good w/ the dotted 8th-16th sound. Also, if you are playing a ballad and the soloist starts phrasing in straight 8ths double time, the dotted 8th/16th ride compliments what the soloist is doing especially if the bassist starts playing in "2"(more half note oriented as opposed to a walking line which would be quarter note oriented)
The exercise he's referring to is meant to be played straight under the swing pattern (look it up). It's a hard feel (Lord knows I'm no expert). I think it's really impossible to explain it; you have to hear it.
Well, you CAN play them both ways, and it is good to have your ass covered but the way to play it practically is to swing them. When i took lessons from Jim (Chapin) he did some stuff from the book and he swung them. You can do it how ever you want i guess but i find more use swinging them... makes more sense realistically.
Matricks no disrespect. I dont know what section his questions actually referring too as, he hasn't said what part of the book he is working from. I didnt go and look when i replied, but im looking at it now.
It clearly stated in chapins book (Im looking at the original double vinyl album he put out yrs ago)....Sections 1A and IV A and all the excercises therin SHOULD be practiced two ways. Chapins words not mine.
@ jonthibault: Thx, that?s what i meant [img]smile.gif[/img]
I think that most of us know, how 8ths should be interpreted in jazz, but these patterns are exercises that should help developing left hand independence.
BTW: Check out the newest printing of the book with the 2 CDs, on which Jim plays all the exercises.
Despite of that, i enjoy driving my bass-player crazy by playing some straight 8ths under the common swing ride pattern [img]biggrin.gif[/img]