changing the hi-hat

i was at a rehearsal the other day with my band mates playing all kinds of stuff incl. latin/jazz, straight ahead stuff, funk etc. on one of the tunes i was playing a soca groove which includes a lot of work on the hi-hat with just my right hand. when the tune ended it was more tiring than it should have been. my hi-hat is now slightly further away, but only a few inches and i have kinda gotten use to it, plus theres no alternative if i want me pedals set up correctly. it was just hard work.

then the keys player was fooling around on my kit during a break and he was talking about a drummer he recently played with who was rubbish, but played open handed. i then proceeded to say how much sense it makes beacuse the hi-hat can be level with the snare drum (ala simon phillips, cobham) and you dont have to cross your arms and it opens up a whole other way of playing, but is too late for me to change.

so then im thinking, why have the main hi-hat in the standard position with a great big stand that gets in the way, (even with a 2 legged stand)??? why not have an x-hat in the place of a normal hi-hat (no pedal for this one - therefore constantly closed) and then have a remote hi-hat on the right side of my kit (where my x-hat is now) with the pedal for that remote in the standard hi-hat position. you get me? so the opening hats are on the right now, so i can play open handed....the other way around. i do this anyway with my usual x-hats, but being able to open and close them too means i could constantly play in this much more natural and comfortable place.

because i have always thought, no matter how close one has their hi-hats its still a little unatural to cross arms and have the right hand in that position....reaching up all the time.

so im now trying to think of ways in which this wouldn't work in normal playing and recording situations. for patterns that are normally played with both hands on the hi-hat (often while opening and closing it) i can just spread between the two. and anytime the left hand would come up to fill in on the regular hats i would just play it on the closed hats on my left (the usual position.)

or at the very least, have a remote hi-hat in place of my hi-hat stand. so therefore i can get my hats exactly where i want them and tilt them too.

so....my questions are, wot du guys rekon of the original idea and can u think of any problems and also.....what are the remote hats like in terms of feel? is there much of a delay? and are they reliable and easy to set-up etc.

thanks.

hey randy,

the impression that i got was that louie was just trying to have us think outside the box rather than to shy away from working harder on technique. i understand both points of view yet i'm thinking apples and oranges at this point. cheers!

The remote hat, IMO, is a great idea. I think of it as an easy solution for open handed playing [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] - in the way that there is no extra training of the left hand to make the left hand lead (eg Simon, Cobham...). Since around 2-3 months ago, I've begun to play openhanded, because partly due to seeing a bootleg Cobham video clip (with George Duke) and seeing him play open-handed, it just looks so natural and great to watch. Of course then hearing Pete C's latin tunes on that massive 15-page thread convinced me further to give it a go. I actually almost cringe when I see people play cross handed now (well, cross handed matched grip that is - I'l admit, cross handed trad grip still does look pretty damn cool [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ) - it, to me, looks so uneasy, unbalanced and unatural. As I've said, its only just now after 2-3 months of pretty intensive practise that I'm just starting to feel happy with my left hand, and most of all, glad that I did it. I'm only 17, and I'm glad I spent that time (and will be spending more time) in completely changing my technique for the rest of my "playing life" as to say..

I also actually think that playing openhanded - either way, remote hat or not, is a way that the art of drumming can evolve (altho that sounds kinda corny!), I look at the kit from a whole new angle now and come up with completely different (not necessarily better of course) ideas than what I did playing cross handed.

The only problem I see with that idea is what do you do when you need both the ride cymbal and hi hat in more complex patterns; such as paradiddles and stuff like that. On top of that if you need your hi hat to open and close during such patterns you might be stuck.

I do understand where your coming from though and the above problem would probably be a minor one.

i think having the hihat on the left is the all around best place for it. crossing your right hand to play the hihat isn't as unnatural as it may seem because the palm gets to point downward more comfortably and the wrist can move more naturally than having the hihat on the right side. the remote hihat on the right side is a cool option though.

Well, this has got me to thinking.

Since I have a set of electronics (Yamahas) to practice on, there really isn't any reason to put the high-hat on the left (the pedal is connected by wire). It ends up there simply by tradition.

Anyway, I moved things around and played some with the high-hat just above the second tom.

It really works great I think. I did have some odd muscle memory moments (swinging once at air), but I think that will take care of itself with some time.

Now, of course, it would be more difficult with an accoustic set, but the idea is the same.

What I found is that there really didn't seem to be much difference with my right hand -- it was my left hand that moved more naturally and with more force and action since it wasn't coming up underneath my right hand.

Anyway, it is a fun experiment regardless. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Try it out and see how you like it, that's the only way to go. I have a DW remote hihiat stand. There's definetly some 'lag' when using it with your foot, but it's not nearly as bad as you might it is. It's definetly harder to do open splashes though. Remember that you'll still need to have the remote pedal on your left where your normal one is now, and you gotta find somewhere to put the long cable that comes with it (it kinda moves when playing too). I heard good things about the pearl ones also, and I think they're quite a bit cheaper. Cheers.

although I haven't read an actual review of the new Pearl remote hat, the ads with Dennis Chambers saying that its better than his normal hat and Mike Mangini saying that its the fastest would probably make me check out those first. (I guess I'm a sucker for advertising!) [img]graemlins/shhh.gif[/img]
Bryan

Have you seen Bruford's set-up?

http://www.billbruford.com/gallery/images/bill0032.jpg

Description at the bottom of the page here.

Here's another example of the same idea.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 03, 2004 12:08 PM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>

why not just work on your hand technique instead of trying to move things around? ALA Jeff Porcaro, his 16th note hand stuff was sick, so was Carlos Vega.
There was a guy Kenny Soule from the band DAG whom did a similar thing where he put his hat in like the middle of the kit so to concentrate more on the groove then on fills.
You certainly can set the kit up the way you are talking about or in any other way tht works best for you.

true randy, of course.

but i was just thinking. no matter what the rhythm, simple of hard, slow or fast, i always feel more comfortable playing my x-hats or playing regular hats with second snare drum....both positions open handed.

ive been looing on the net at yamaha, pearl and DW. i would prefer DW. has anyone ever used one?

well, it certainly makes sense playing hard patterns and not having to cross the arms would make things easier, but that's what inspires me to work harder so that i CAN play whatever groove is giving me troubles in the future with no hassle.
I have never messed with a cable type hat, sorry.

I have always thought about this type of thing, but never have acted on trying it out. If you have the $, why not try it out and see how it feels? You can always sell the cable hat if you decide that its not right for you...

I saw a Virgil clinic last month and he used the cable hat very effectively placed to the right of his bass drum. It gave him a new spectrum of sound possibilities... very cool.

Since we have the technology to experiment, and if you can afford the experiement, then go for it! [img]wink.gif[/img]

Bryan

I had quick go with the Pearl Eliminator remote had just to see what it felt like in a store ages ago - and it really is quite amazing, didn't feel any lag at all

For me, the only prob that i can see with having the XHH on L & remote HH on R is, when wanting to open the hats on a LH inflection...of course this can be learned or overcome, but why bother with all that time...

The ideal for me would be to have a standard HH [in the standard positon] on L, w a smaller XHH on R [a la 80's-early/mid 90's Weckl]...or, standard HH in the standard positon on L, w a smaller xhh just above & next to it, & also Rem-HH on R...but then you also may run into clutter/angle/distance & cash[!] problems, here again...but this too can be overcome! [img]wink.gif[/img]

I don't know if other instrumentalists realize the 'geometric plight' [physics] that drummers have to endure [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 06, 2004 05:44 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

Here's a wacky-looking device someone pointed out on another board.

Well, I think you try all your
options for set-up.

The idea of open-handed playing
is best, in my opinion, though.

It's not just the set-up that
benefits. It's your whole thought
and composition process.

It has helped me, no end.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 05, 2004 05:04 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

Quote:

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Originally posted by palmerlouie:
.....but is too late for me to change.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just wanted to point out that it's not too late for you to change. I mean you're only 18 or 19, right? Not many people start playing open handed when they are 5 years old, it's a decision that would come after years of playing.

I played matched grip for the first 6 years. When I changed to traditional grip it was like starting all over with my left hand. Now my traditonal grip is better than my matched grip ever was.

I know that isn't the same thing as switching from cross-hand to open-hand, but don't be afraid to try something you feel would work better for you.