Oh yeah! Wasn't there someone on this board who was trying ideas on building a membrane intercooler? I'd like to see if he ever got it up and running! Dyno plots would be great also!
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Oh yeah! Wasn't there someone on this board who was trying ideas on building a membrane intercooler? I'd like to see if he ever got it up and running! Dyno plots would be great also!
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It appears that Jackson Racing's Intercooler plans may be on a temporary hold... however, some members of the dealer network (myself included) are looking at assisting with the development of this project... because we want to see it through.
I will keep you all posted as new information is available.
Jim
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRCivic:
It appears that Jackson Racing's Intercooler plans may be on a temporary hold... however, some members of the dealer network (myself included) are looking at assisting with the development of this project... because we want to see it through.
I will keep you all posted as new information is available.
Jim
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Any reasons given???
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...Steven
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1QuickSI:
Any reasons given???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps it is the cost of the unit?? If it is indeed the projected cost of $1500, I don't think too many people to buy it (myself included). In this regard, it's just not profitable to even make one. They, after all, are in the business to make money.
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It's powered by GASOLINE damnit!!!
[This message has been edited by randomwalk101 (edited September 16, 2001).]
Any updates??? Really looking forward to boosting 10-12psi with the help of the intercooler.
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'94 JRSC GSR: ENDYN STEPPER PULLEY(9psi), RC 310cc, Cartech FMU, MSD 6BTM, MSD 8.5mm Plug Wires, Greddy Evolution, DC Sports 4-2-1 SS
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRCivic:
There are reasons, however, I unfortunately cannot divulge them at this time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
C'mon, Jim...we're all friends here. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Sonny
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Sonny Van Hook ([email protected])
2000 JRSC'd Civic Si @ 6psi (Powered by Hondata)
1999 Tonykart/Honda 80cc Shifter
I am confident the issues are such that they are best for JR and its customers. Jim would probly have issues with it if they were deliberately not developing it.
Joe
[This message has been edited by falconGSR (edited September 16, 2001).]
Sorry I havent updated you guys in a while.
This is what i've been working on for the past week or so. I've moved away from the air/water setup and decided on using refridgerant. The thing stopping me before was the power consumption of teh compressor. I have found new info and that shouldn't be a problem. Hmmm imagine below ambient outlet temps More to come. Here is my latest post on the endy board if you can help me please do ...
have found a lot more info on the 12 volt compressors that I need for the refridgeration project to move forward. I've found a couple that only pull a couple amps of current and are very compact. They are used in portable freezers and refridgerators. Here is a link to a page with some more info. http://dongfar.com/manual_freezer.htm This has some very usefull info and makes me feel that this project is headed in the right direction. I've also considered propane (R-290) as a possible refridgerant, but i'm still researching that avenue. What I could use now is a couple people that have some sort of refridgeration background. I just need some assurance that i'm headed in the right direction with this
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Check out www.highaltitudeimports.com
First I'm not sure that a small refrigeration system could keep up with the high demand of cooling the intake charge. Water to air is a much more efficeint means of cooling the intake.
There is one interesting problem in using Refrigerant in cooling the intake charge. If you use "freeon" type refrigerants and the intercooler breaks you could burn the refrigerant which when burned releases an EXTREMELY toxic chemical. (halide something or other). This chemical IF inhaled will cause death or serious injury in large enough doses. Propane as you probably know does not release any seriously toxic gases when burned. BUT like I said the intercooler would have to have a leak or something for the refrigerant to go into the intake charge and thus burn...which is highly unlikely.
With propane you do not have to have any liscensing (sp) to work with it, but you do with normal refrigerants, which is a definite bonus, because unless you have some connections you cannot work with the stuff, much less BUY the freeon.
Hears an idea....What about propane misting of the intake charge??? This is the sexy thing to do in the diesel crowd right now.
Austin
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96gsr 4door w/jrsc at 8psi---crazy new mods in the works
Current daily driver = Ducati 916
Yeah I ran into the very unlikely, but possible scenario of the intercooler rupturing which is why I am wanting to know more about propane. I think the R-134a refridgerant gives of a form of chlorine gas possibly what you stated. The propane will simply make the car run richer than normal if anything were to happen.Propane misting is an option, but its just like water injection. I am wanting a closed system that you do not have to renew often. With the surface area restrictions we are working with here i'm just not convinced that water would be able to keep up.
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Check out www.highaltitudeimports.com
So propane would be the safest refrigerant to use...and just as effective.
But do you really think that a small refrigeration system could keep up with the demand of cooling the high intake temps of a SC application? For example, the fairly large belt drivin compressor that is in your A/C system sometimes has trouble keeping up on very hot days...and that is just cooling the air about 40 degrees. Think what kind of compressor and condensor you would need to cool say a 200 degree intake temp to an ambient air temp of 75 degrees, that is a deltaT of 125 degrees!! That would have to be some kind of A/C system!!
What do you think?
Austin
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96gsr 4door w/jrsc at 8psi---crazy new mods in the works
Current daily driver = Ducati 916
BTW I do have a "little" refrigeration experience. I did T&B (test and balance) work for a large company in NY, on refrigeration systems for large buildings. I'm not saying I am a pro by any strech of the imagination tho. I've just worked around the stuff.
Austin
I heard the reason why the intercooler project got put on hold is because the guy that Jackson Racing gave money to for R&D ran off with their money and is nowhere to be found.
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JRSC @ 6psi
Custom Cold Air Box
Field SFC-VTEC controller
Nuespeed shortshifter
Thermal R&D Stealth
Kamikaze headers
Skunk 2 Cam Gears
There are reasons, however, I unfortunately cannot divulge them at this time.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
Why are you so set on retaining the stock manifold? Its alot easier to fit an air/water core in a modified manifold (which WILL fit in a GSR. I measured, and spearco has a/w cores that will work) than it is to engineer a "sandwiche" style plate and a compressor system.
Honestly, I don't understand why you are going through all the trouble of using an air conditioning type core, with the stock manifold. Get yourself a little MIG welder and some aluminum sheet metal, and a router.
If you have the blower blowing straight into the cylinder head, there is room. Get a stock Si intake manifold. Hack off the runners right behind the injector holes. Weld on a "box" to hold the core. Drill some holes in either side of the "box" for the plumbing and weld it in. Theres even enough room for little mini "air horns" (although probably not enough for a full horn). Then weld a flange on the other side for the blower to bolt on. Tap and thread some holes, and then bolt that blower up with some gasket gook. Get a shorter pulley and cut it to fit. After that its just a matter of plumbing to the heat exchanger and reservoir/pump.
All that seems alot easier to me than what you are trying.
I know its a little more difficult than this in terms of making measurements so that you are still in a straight shot to the other pulley. But it just seems like what I have outlined is more likely to succeed. I've got a portfolio of research that you can have, if you want. I don't think I am gonna have time/money to tackle this project myself as I had originally planned. I'll drop you a line.
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Well, I cannot say much... but I will say this: The development of the intercooler system hinges on the completion of another project... and this creates the delay. So, in essence... the intercooler is not dead at JR... it is merely delayed.
The rumor that 2000GSR is spreading is TOTALLY false.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
"Completion of another project" - could this project be a blower for the RSX?
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'94 JRSC GSR: ENDYN STEPPER PULLEY(9psi), RC 310cc, Cartech FMU, MSD 6BTM, MSD 8.5mm Plug Wires, Greddy Evolution, DC Sports 4-2-1 SS
Just curious. . . how much would an intercooled JRSC GSR put on (estimated hp) for 6psi? I know that this intercoolor idea wouldn't be as efficient as a turbo intercooler, so we probably aren't looking at the 270 hp figures that the Drag III's have. . . but any increase would be nice. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 217gsr:
Just curious. . . how much would an intercooled JRSC GSR put on (estimated hp) for 6psi? I know that this intercoolor idea wouldn't be as efficient as a turbo intercooler, so we probably aren't looking at the 270 hp figures that the Drag III's have. . . but any increase would be nice. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought air/water intercoolers were actually more efficient than air/air intercoolers like the drag III's.
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JRSC @ 6psi
Custom Cold Air Box
Field SFC-VTEC controller
Nuespeed shortshifter
Thermal R&D Stealth
Kamikaze headers
Skunk 2 Cam Gears
I think so also, but the deal with the efficiency of a membrane intercooler on a JRSC is that the combination is less efficient than a turbo + IC. I could be COMPLETELY wrong though.
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Well a turbo puts out very high temps when not intercooled. I saw a guy that measured his temps. He averaged 361 degrees non intercooled and 160 with an air/water IC. Big drop in temps. The JRSC at 11 psi is somewhere around 190 degrees so its actually more efficient in that sense. I'm not sure what the HP increase would be at 6 psi, but probably not too much. Where this will really shine is above 10 psi. I'm talking with another board member here and it looks like he might have some good input. It might be possible to fit a spearco intercooler core inside of a special manifold. Keep your fingers crossed...
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Check out www.highaltitudeimports.com
Well a turbo puts out very high temps when not intercooled. I saw a guy that measured his temps. He averaged 361 degrees non intercooled and 160 with an air/water IC. Big drop in temps. The JRSC at 11 psi is somewhere around 190 degrees so its actually more efficient in that sense. I'm not sure what the HP increase would be at 6 psi, but probably not too much. Where this will really shine is above 10 psi. I'm talking with another board member here and it looks like he might have some good input. It might be possible to fit a spearco intercooler core inside of a special manifold. Keep your fingers crossed...
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Check out www.highaltitudeimports.com
Turbos aren't sapping power off the crank so they still should have more peak HP.
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Boost. Finally.
They will still ahve more peak, but the gap will be much closer than it is now. Besides that the supercharged car should be able to get so far ahead of the turbo car off the start that the small peak hp difference wont matter much. As for the performance gains well here are some rough numbers. Take these for what they are. At 10 psi it is typical for the blower outlet temp tp be around 190 degrees peak. Most intercoolers are around 60 to 80 percent efficient. Lets use 50 percent. That drops the outlet temp by nearly 100 degrees. now its a common guideline that you gain 3 percent in power for every 10 degree drop in temp. This equates to 30 percent more power. SO if your engine made 200 hp at the wheels it would now make closer to 260 hp. Nice gain. This doesn't take into account the pressure drop that occurs from the IC, so plan on a 30 to 40 hp increase. I'll work on some more solid numbers, but that gives you the basic idea. It should help peak HP numbers by quite a bit if I can get this core big enough to keep up with the blower.
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Check out www.highaltitudeimports.com
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 217gsr:
Just curious. . . how much would an intercooled JRSC GSR put on (estimated hp) for 6psi? I know that this intercoolor idea wouldn't be as efficient as a turbo intercooler, so we probably aren't looking at the 270 hp figures that the Drag III's have. . . but any increase would be nice. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You wouldn't really see big gains at 6psi. Big gains would come at 10psi, and more at 12 if you think the blower can handle it. I'm not sure exactly how big they'd be.
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http://www.magnusonproducts.com/imag...raph_trans.gif
This can give you some idea of the outlet temps for the M62. The scales on the Delta T, or change in themperature are (I think) 80, 130, 180, 230 and 280. As you can see, at high rpms and 10psi, with a 90 degree ambient temperature, outlet temps hit 270 degrees F. Cut that down and you've got some big gains.
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Its worth mentioning that for you drag racers, a properly set up air/water intercooler system can use an ice water reservoir, that can actually bring boosted air temps to below ambient. Its hard to get a large enough space for a reservoir in the Integra (the car I was looking at to do this in), but it can be done.
Imagine that: on a 90 F day, going from 270 degree intake temps at 8000 engine rpm and 10psi all the way down to <90 F. WOW.
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