So the parents and I have been talking about something...

Regarding next Christmas...

More specifically, a Walther P99 in .40 S&W.

Some of you know that I've been wanting a firearm for some time. I got a semiautomatic .22 rifle last Christmas, and I love it, but it's not a good weapon for defense. It was designed more for plinking and small animal hunting.

I'm working now, and would be able to cover a part of the $665 price tag, although my Dad has said that he can find me one cheaper.

We were in mutual agreement that this would be the only gift I would receive (if in fact I do get it); it would be from everybody in the family. Personally, this couldn't make me happier, because I'd rather receive this one thing rather than a whole bunch of DVDs and stuff.

It was hinted at above, but my Dad is more for this than Mom; she's afraid of firearms because she knows hardly anything about them... she's never been around them, never shot one, and doesn't really know the facts and specifics about them. I think if my Dad or I actually gave her sort of a tutorial, she would be more comfortable.

I've been sort of calculating the costs for the gun, and the accessories that would be needed. I believe it comes with a lockable case, and one extra magazine. I would also need to purchase maybe a few more magazines, cleaning supplies, and a holster... preferably one of the nice Fobus ones Walther has listed on their online store. None of these things are cheap, and if I do get them, they would have to be spread out over periods of time.

I consider myself very good in firearms safety... I always take precautions; although I do keep rounds in the magazine of the rifle I have, there are none in the chamber and the weapon is on safety. I always keep my finger off the trigger right until I get ready to fire it. I always keep the rifle pointed down. And thankfully both parents are aware of all this.

Keeping rounds in a gun is incredibly stupid, and IMHO shows yo uare possibly not ready for a handgun.

Many people have been killed when they did not think a gun was loaded at all.

I have no issues at all with people owning guns, BTW.

IMHO, Christmas gifts are a way of showing you care about someone, and a handgun as a gift just does not fit into that spirit of the season.

My father wouldn't even keep rounds in the same room as the guns he owned, and in his shop downstairs, for added safety (where he cleaned them) he kept all the rounds and a few rare/expensive guns locked in a safe.

Just my .22... [img]wink.gif[/img]

The slide would have to pulled back, thus chambering the round, and then the safety taken off for the gun to pose a danger.

IMHO, it's ridiculous to keep the rounds and gun separated as said.

If a situation should arise when it's needed, you might be out of luck... and time. I'd hate to run to one room to get the weapon, then possibly another to search for its ammunition. Just as bad is to be standing there trying to load the weapon under stress of knowing that an intruder could be ready to enter the room you're in.

I keep my .22 rifle with ammunition in the magazine, and am confident and responsible enough to say there's almost the zero chance of me hurting myself or someone else (accidentally) with it.

It was last year during school when my eyes were opened after my crimimal justice teacher/gun afficionado said that having a loaded (technically not, however) weapon in a house poses no danger with responsible owners, and to say otherwise can be a broad generalization.

People that have been killed because they didn't think the gun was loaded probably did not check the weapon and were inexperienced with safe handling, and quite bluntly... were asking for it, perhaps. Excluding children of course, but that's not the case in this situation.

But you're right... very rare freak accidents do occur. But if you're doing what you're supposed to, even that chance drops dramatically.

You always treat each one you pick up as if it were loaded, and I'm willing to wager that's where the majority of accidental gun shot (both self-inflicted and by others) victims went wrong.

But of course, that's just my .22.

As for giving handguns for Christmas gifts not being the season spirit... this would not be the first time I've seen it happen within the family. Wow... I can't think of anybody around here that would raise an eyebrow over it. http://www.hostboard.com/forums/

And a gift is a gift, is you ask me.

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ August 03, 2006 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Dajistano ]</font>

So do you live in a war zone, or unbelievably high crime area, where you need this for defense? That's what you said you wanted this for.

It's one thing go get a gun for sport or recreation purposes, and another because you need it in order to survive.

Daj,
Congrats on your choice, that's a very nice piece.
...and Dad's right, it CAN be found cheaper.

I don't know if you've ever heard of the expression "Beware the man who owns one gun".
It means that he has become proficient with it because it's the ONLY one he has. I'm well past that point, but I still have my favorite!

As far as using this weapon for home defense....
My experience (as well as MANY others) shows that handguns, especially semi-autos, are not really the first best choice. One of the most difficult things to do in a high pressure situation it AIM and FIRE a handgun ACCURATELY. Trust me, I know.

The experts say that best choice of weapon for home defense is a PUMP SHOTGUN.
Here's why....
First, you dont AIM a shotgun, you just have to POINT it. It doesn't sound like much of a difference, but trust me, it is.
Second, firing a shotgun at an intruder inside a home is MUCH safer that firing a handgun. The buckshot (or birdshot) will not likley fully penetrate the wall behind him. A FMJ 9mm or .40cal will not only pass through the wall behind the intruder, it will very likey continue through 2 or 3 more.
Third, and this is the one that I like, the sound of a pump shotgun being racked in the middle of the night should send any half-human home invader running! ...and if it doesn't, you have some serious firepower in your hands to show him the error of his ways!

Gareee,
As the saying goes....It is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun AND NOT HAVE IT.

Wouldn't be my first choice Daj (I've handled a P99 - not my cup of tea) but to each his own. I'd probably go Sig or CZ or Springfield XD.

Nom is right - if you thinking home defense - 12g or 20g pump. Doesn't have to be anything fancy - just reliable. If the shit ever hit the fan, the first thing I'd grab is my old Ithaca 37 with the 20 in barrel and a box of #4 buck.

The storage laws here are quite a bit different than in the States, so the only comment I'll make on the storage issue is that I would keep the mag loaded, but not in the gun. Near the gun, but not in it.

Nom, I like the saying "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" better. [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ August 04, 2006 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Killer KHAAAAAN uck ]</font>

I'm gonna side with your Mom.

Guns are unnecessary. If you really need one for defense I would consider moving to a better part of the world instead. That price tag may get you a flight and immigration papers.

I LIKE this saying!
"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"

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Originally posted by Spore:
I'm gonna side with your Mom.

Guns are unnecessary. If you really need one for defense I would consider moving to a better part of the world instead. That price tag may get you a flight and immigration papers.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you really believe that? So you think that one should just keep retreating to a "better part of the world"? Could you tell me were that is...oh, yeah, I remember.....OZ....oh wait, even they had the Witch and her terrorist monkeys. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

KK,

If you liked that one, you'll love these! :

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

Colt: The original point and click interface.

Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

"Free" men do not ask permission to bear arms.

If you don't know your rights you don't have any.

Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.

What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

Assault is a behavior, not a device.

Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer.

Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

Gun pffff call spiderman he's gonna help you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I dropped three would be burglars last year by just pointing my finger at them and yelling "bang!". They pointed their fingers back at me but completely missed. You can't hit anything pointing your finger to the sky! Dumbasses!

I have to agree with Gareee with regards to one thing it would ultimately be safer for you to keep a loaded magazine out of the gun and right next to it. Honestly the amount of time it would take you to shove in the magazine and chamber a round relative to just chambering a round is negligible. Ultimately it doesn't really matter what we say here though.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Michael Crawford:
I'm with Nomalas on the need for guns. He's also right about a shotgun - it was the weapon for home defense that I had loaded and ready for years.

However, I have kids of a certain age now that makes the risk equation tip in the other direction. If you're in a house where there are only adults, the risk of them pilfering around in a location where you have a loaded gun, and shooting someone with it, should be fairly low (unless you live with morons). However, once you have kids, that risk really rises, and it outweights the risk of home invasion. The shotgun was replaced with a heavy bat and an alarm system.

Once my kids are old enough, the loaded gun will return though.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mike,
I agree with you about having to be more careful when both firearms and children are in the same household. They can, however, safely coexist.
Most parents treat firearms as something that should be hidden away from their children. Once that happens, the firearm becomes something mystical, and the child will seek it out. That's when accidents happen.

When one of my nephews was getting to the "curious" age, I spoke to my brother and sister-in-law about trying an experiment. First, I would show him the gun, in this case, a handgun. I would even let him hold it. While he was holding it, I would explain the rules of safe gun handling. How a gun is ALWAYS loaded, how he should NEVER put his finger on the trigger, etc. I also told him that if he ever found a gun anywhere, he should never touch it or pick it up and should go tell his parents or another adult.
After a few weeks, with my brother's permission, I purposely left an unloaded gun on my bed. It was positioned in a certain way, so I would know if it was moved. When they came over to visit, I wondered how long it would take for him to find it. It didn't take long. Within 5 minutes, he came running up to me to tell me what he found. He didn't touch it at all. I would do this every now and again just to see if the message sank in...and it did. The gun was no longer a mystery to him, so it wasn't something to seek out.

This obviously doesn't work for everyone's situation, but de-mystifying the firearm in the eyes of a child, is a good start to preventing accidents.

....sorry for the long read..... [img]redface.gif[/img]

I'm in your house right now................

You're absolutely right, Nomalas - kids do need to see and know about guns young. I owned my first at 8, and started hunting regularly with my dad at 9.

I have guns in the house, and I think my kids are pretty smart about said safety. But I still prefer to keep them unloaded, simply because the risk is too high for me.

I just dropped 2 rifles off at the local gun shop - trying to sell them on consignment.
If those 2 sell, I'll only be left with........ hmmm....... let me count now......... 21. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Nomalas:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Spore:
I'm gonna side with your Mom.

Guns are unnecessary. If you really need one for defense I would consider moving to a better part of the world instead. That price tag may get you a flight and immigration papers.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you really believe that? So you think that one should just keep retreating to a "better part of the world"? Could you tell me were that is...oh, yeah, I remember.....OZ....oh wait, even they had the Witch and her terrorist monkeys. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All I can say is I don't need one where I live. Must be the lions and tigers and bears... oh, my. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I'm with Nomalas on the need for guns. He's also right about a shotgun - it was the weapon for home defense that I had loaded and ready for years.

However, I have kids of a certain age now that makes the risk equation tip in the other direction. If you're in a house where there are only adults, the risk of them pilfering around in a location where you have a loaded gun, and shooting someone with it, should be fairly low (unless you live with morons). However, once you have kids, that risk really rises, and it outweights the risk of home invasion. The shotgun was replaced with a heavy bat and an alarm system.

Once my kids are old enough, the loaded gun will return though.

I had no idea so many people on here were armed. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I recently inherited an old Beretta (m1934) from my deceased grandfather. It's in great condition and I have cleaned it up but I have yet to fire it.

Sorry can't help you with that Daj....I am against the use of weapons....but that's your choice and I have to respect it....

I just shot them. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dajistano:
I just shot them. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">underwater ?

[img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

No.

As I was falling into the pit; it was quite dramatic.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dajistano:
No.

As I was falling into the pit; it was quite dramatic.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]eek.gif[/img]

NEXT !!!!

Quote:

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Originally posted by Chairman Kaga:
it would ultimately be safer for you to keep a loaded magazine out of the gun and right next to it. Honestly the amount of time it would take you to shove in the magazine and chamber a round relative to just chambering a round is negligible.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, you are right on that one.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Chairman Kaga:
Ultimately it doesn't really matter what we say here though.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why wouldn't it?

Quote:

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Originally posted by MM4:
but that's your choice and I have to respect it....

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, that's a first. [img]wink.gif[/img]

But that doesn't mean I can't push you to the pit...

* Pushes Daj

Oh, I forgot, I put some new sharks in there....