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Hello All-
I was just wondering about the fact that it seems that nobody ever talks about Buddy Rich. At least in the time that I have been here, I have seen no threads devoted to him. Not that I have any desire to start some, but I wondered if people had the same opinion of him that I have always heard or has he been supplanted by the new guys? Or? is it that fewer people are exposed to him? What do you think?
Take Care All. F.S.
i dig Buddy, just got the latest dvd from hudson called Live at the Montreal jazz festival. killer
His abilities were truly amazing, even by today's standards.
But, as far as his taste and style, I never liked it. Some of that is my general distaste for Big Band music, some is he just played too much for my liking I guess.
Still, I don't deny his greatness. Hudson has released some footage that has Buddy playing "Tony" licks well before Tony was on the scene. No player has been as balanced ability wise between the hands and feet. (except Virgil)
agreed, I have noticed that too about Buddy using the Tony stuff way before it was Tony making it hip. Buddys hand between the foot stuff was so kewl too.
I do not dig much of the music that Buddy was involved with BUT! the Man's abilities were Amazing for sure, a GroundBreaker absolutely. And I concur with Derek's last comment NO DOUBT! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
Dig
We all know that he made/had one of the most tremendous contributions/impacts on the drumming community & the music scene in general.
We talked him up quite a bit on several occasions here a good ways back, perhaps closer to when I first signed on... [img]cool.gif[/img]
On the 'other side,' someone even posted a link to a site that had some of his tirades & outbursts sampled as short mp3s...even a comical song incorporating his rants...[didn't mean to take away from his contrib's by that]...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 30, 2004 09:07 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Buddy was one of a kind. A child prodigy, performing from age 3 until his death. He was untouchable as a technician, was creative and very innovative, a showman and even a comic. He was also an incredible brush player in small groups. Forget the tapes and comic strip. Yes, it's amusing but I wouldn't be surprised if there were tapes of Vinnie (insert your favorite drummer's name here) doing some of the stuff I've heard stories about, etc. Lots of the guys we love as players, occasionally have clay feet as people.
Brad
Before I forget, for those of us who consume all to do with drumming (most on HOD I suspect) you've GOT to read the Mel Torme book on Buddy. Some CLASSIC stories in there.
Great, great, great drummer!
The book by Torme is a must read, yes!
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did hear that vinnie apparently got sacked by sting( if that's in itself is true, I don't know? ), and I'm not about to disclose the reason just yet. If anyone has heard anything, maybe they could say to see if it's the same reason, otherwise, I don't want to spread what may just be rumours. But the reason is funny.Quote:
Originally posted by Vdrummer:
Yes, it's amusing but I wouldn't be surprised if there were tapes of Vinnie (insert your favorite drummer's name here) doing some of the stuff I've heard stories about, etc. Lots of the guys we love as players, occasionally have clay feet as people.
Brad
my father is and was a huge buddy fan and ive always had videos and dvds around the house and heard stories etc and always recognised his greatness but was never really "into" it.
I was too immersed in todays guys and didnt like looking back and hearing the shit sounding drums etc, which is of course very ignorant.
BUT....about 3 months ago, something urged me to dig out a dvd and i watched it and suddenly all this stuff just hit me right between the eyes. having not watched him for a few yrs, i now fully understood what he was doing and all the things that i had missed came flooding back. it was amazing......i too begun to notice the hand and foot things and the musicality, power and speed.
but the one thing that gets me (as it does with weckl) is the way buddy accents with the band! it is seamless. amazing to watch. its never "heres the time, heres the fill, and heres the accent".....its all one lovely flowing motion. weckl obviously picked all this up from buddy cause i see those similarities. ive been studying buddy's playing for the last few months and im loving it. the cd's etc are just so unpredictable.
i bought the mel torme biog yesterday and have started it and its great so far....
he truly was a genius....and such a celebrity too. it was so different in those days. can u imagine vinnie or weckl being a guest on "saturday night live"?!
my father is and was a huge buddy fan and ive always had videos and dvds around the house and heard stories etc and always recognised his greatness but was never really "into" it.
I was too immersed in todays guys and didnt like looking back and hearing the shit sounding drums etc, which is of course very ignorant.
BUT....about 3 months ago, something urged me to dig out a dvd and i watched it and suddenly all this stuff just hit me right between the eyes. having not watched him for a few yrs, i now fully understood what he was doing and all the things that i had missed came flooding back. it was amazing......i too begun to notice the hand and foot things and the musicality, power and speed.
but the one thing that gets me (as it does with weckl) is the way buddy accents with the band! it is seamless. amazing to watch. its never "heres the time, heres the fill, and heres the accent".....its all one lovely flowing motion. weckl obviously picked all this up from buddy cause i see those similarities. ive been studying buddy's playing for the last few months and im loving it. the cd's etc are just so unpredictable.
i bought the mel torme biog yesterday and have started it and its great so far....
he truly was a genius....and such a celebrity too. it was so different in those days. can u imagine vinnie or weckl being a guest on "saturday night live"?!
This looks pretty cool:
http://www.lightyear.com/images/1101...ch-DVD_2-D.gif
Check out the previews right here!
I like the Johnny Carson clip, but what is he looking for, in the 'POCKET'? [img]graemlins/smarty.gif[/img]
I have the 'Lost West Side Story Tapes' which is great. It's either buying this or the Montreal Jazz Fest.............. Or BD at the top? [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 01, 2004 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Eaglebeat ]</font>
Good posts, Brad & Louie...
I think Buddy is still unsurpassed in terms of sheer natural facility on the set in a musical setting. He's been THE major influence on many that were major inflences on many that were...
Talking about the two drummers featured on HOD; like Louie, I feel Buddy in Weckl's approach to setting up figures and filling in between kicks, and I feel Buddy in Vinnie's sheer "go for it" attitude.
I still don?t see anybody whose hands could compare to Buddy?s...well judging by what I saw at his clinic last week, maybe Steve Smith?s amazing left hand is getting close to <s>a 3-year-old</s> Buddy?s hand. [img]wink.gif[/img]
There?s another GREAT book I recommend on not only Buddy but all the big names of this era (Webb, Krupa, Papa Jo, Sid Catlett, Dave Tough, Cozy Cole?), it?s Burt Korall?s Drummin? men. A masterpiece from the inside where you get to know how all of these guys influenced one another in the swing years. LOTS of inside stories?
Like near the end of Buddy?s chapter where Freddie Gruber relates Buddy?s last days:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote:
?Just before the operation ?we were going down in the elevator-the doctors asked him if he was allergic to anything. Buddy said, country and western music.? He kept going, he fought and screamed bloody murder."
?The last day he was thinking of the young people and what he could leave behind. We had talked about doing an educational video together on the history of the trap set. He brought it up, and insisted I go ahead with it. ?Never tell them what to play,? he said, ?only how to approach the instrument!? I asured him it would be done. He kept on, ?Make sure you?ve heard what I said! Leave something for the young people!? That was his bottom line. The tape would be a part of his legacy.?
My dad took me to a Buddy Rich concert when I was 14. I asked my dad if I could meet Buddy later and he said "we'll catch him outside". We found his bus and I was scared to meet him and my dad said," just go ask that guy right over there if you can get on the bus". I did and I ended up getting a picture on the bus with Buddy. I had him sign the record with his dual with Max Roach. I was ecstatic that after only really playing for a year, I met Buddy Rich! I really thought I was special. hehe
Later on, when I went to the Berklee College of Music, I played in the Buddy Rich ensemble for 3 yrs. It was my dream to play that music when I arrived there but after a year or two I actually tried to quit . I was getting into different approaches to playing music (and didn't want to be too influenced or typecast as a Buddy drummer) but the teacher( Wayne Naus) lectured me and ended up giving me a bunch of gigs outside of school. He was very kind to me and really taught me a lot about life and playing.
Half way through one year -1 week before a major concert I left my music in a drum practice room. We never did find the music (I think the music was turned in but they didn't tell me) and I had to play by memorizing the arrangements. That was a revelation because after forcing myself to use my ear more I could really play the music.
A great lesson learned from a boneheaded mistake. (Isn't that a lot of what life is about anyways?)
I realized what a force Buddy was and was so humble to be able to play some of the same arrangements he played. I just bowed down to his achievements on the instrument.
He was a genius on the drums and had an incredible ear.
Drummer/Teacher- Joe Hunt (Stan Getz / Bill Evans) played me a bunch of small group recordings of Buddy and by those I heard another side of Buddy (the incredible time keeper and brush player). He had so many fresh ideas as far as fills were concerned.
Also, i heard a record of him playing on a dry studio kit ( 70's) and I could have sworn it was early Gadd. Buddy was an amazing funk drummer and his hi-hat work was awe inspiring.
Sorry I can't link to the picture directly but if you want to see it you can go to my site.
www.blakelindberg.com
and see it on the pictures page.
I grew up watching Buddy play out here at Disneyland almost every year. He'd usually be booked for a week. I'd see as many shows as I could - damn the rides! I just turned 51 and will probably always feel he was the greatest. One day, back in '87, I was at the UCLA Medical Center to see a doctor about what I thought might be a carpal tunnel thing. Buddy was in the hospital and I asked a nurse to deliver a card from me. I sent him a get well card and thanked him for all the music and inspiration. Years after that I was with Freddie Gruber and he said he remembered Buddy getting the card.
One of a Kind...
possibly the greatest (so far)
I've got a video of him with Tony Bennett that he did for the BBC in 1982 and his playing is unbelievable. I grew up watching this video.
He plays ballads with brushes to full big band stuff and even fusion type stuff and it's all spot on.
I also love the album 'A Different Drummer'
How funky is that
The greatest...
In terms of sheer technique, there will NEVER be another Buddy Rich. I saw him numerous times and I heard sounds coming from his set that were "unexplainable" (I heard that nice splash or subtle touch of the cymbal or snare ghost note, but never "saw" it take place). He always left me shaking my head in sheer astonishment.
And probably the highlight of my musical career was the opportunity I had to meet Buddy and even play for him on his drums. I was 21 years old and on the road with Johnny Ray (a 50's pop star). After our performance, Johnny asked me if I wanted to go hear Buddy at the La Bastille (in Houston). I said, "sure" and off we went. We caught Buddy's last set. After the set was over, Johnny says. "By the way, did I tell you Buddy is a good friend of mine?" And then he said--"Wanna meet him?" My jaw hit the floor! So we go to Buddy's dressing room and Johnny introduces this 21 year old punk as "my drummer." Buddy gave me a very penetrating gaze. I fumbled around trying to find what words I would say to my drumming "idol." I can't remember what came out of my mouth, all I remember is Buddy coming back saying to me--"Let's see what you can do!" So I sat down behind his white-pearl Slingerland's and played a drum solo with Buddy looking over my shoulder. He knew that I had spent many an hour listening to him (because I vainly tried to cop some of his classic solo licks). After I played, he ordered a drink for the two of us and sat down with me and gave me a good hour and a half drum lesson. [He also gave me a pair of his drum sticks that I have mounted and framed to this day].
You will read or hear of many "horror stories" about Buddy and his infamous temper. Many are probably true. All I know is that he showed me astonishing kindness, and gave me some wonderful encouragement. There are soooo many truly great drummers out there today. But to this day, I have NEVER heard or seen ANYONE that can play the drums the way BUDDY played the drums. I came to not only love his drumming, but to also love the man.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 26, 2005 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Steve Spencer ]</font>
I saw him twice and was not smart enough to walk up and get his autograph. His right on the money "hits" always get me along w/ his ability to swing like no other
Yeha, Buddy as funk drummer...def. under-rated. I was listening to a track called "Space Shuttle" and it was a groove that was more like a loosey hip/hop/second line thing and he kept it pretty tight. when it came time for him to break it down a little bit, he did so in interesting ways rather than blazing chops.
First time I ever saw him was on Carson.
Blake,
Great playing on your website. You have the perfect ride cymbal on "inbe". What is that? Any way, very impressed.
As for Buddy, well to me he was my main influence early on. I played the "Rich in London" album until I wore it out. I was happy when I got to play some of those tunes in college. The day he died I was playing a college big band gig at a local high school. The band instructor asked me to play a solo in tribute to him and I felt like that was my way of paying my respects that night as well as being in the perfect situation to do so. Somehow I felt like that was more than luck for me to be in that situation at that time and I guess the solo affected other students in a good way as far as I was told.
Buddy was known simply as "The greatest drummer in the world" period.... while he was alive. No one may ever hold that kind of unified title in drums again. Of course don't get me wrong, Vinnie is the man these days and has been since the Zappa days but Buddy had a gift beyond belief and the world just accepted that he was un-matched in that gift. He could also be an ass from what I've heard but so can everybody at some point.
I was also fortunate enough to see Buddy play when I was a kid. What an inspiration! What a sound! I still have his autograph and great memories of those gigs. I remember being quite surprised to see what light sticks he was using. And always amazed at the seemingly endless flow of musical energy from that kit!
He evidently ran a tight ship, because it was his name on the marquee.
Buddy was a real bad-arse, no doubt.
Case closed. ;=)
Just glad I wasn't a "late/lazy" horn player... ;=)
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 27, 2005 12:49 AM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
For those who haven't tried it; watch a tape of Buddy on slow speed (for that matter try any great player). It will give you a lot of insight into breaking down his phenomenal technique. It's like watching slo-mo clips of a great athlete.
I heard the infamous tirade in the bus tape. The guys in the band probably deserved it. Yes, it was HIS name on the line and like any job it's the task of the underling to make the boss look (sound) good, so if they screw up they get their asses chewed. It does get a bit extreme to the point of being humorous though. I had an old friend that played bass for him for a short time who said Buddy could be very hard on players. He separated the boys from the men in that respect. If they couldn't handle it and take it in stride then they would find the door. "If you can't stand the heat..."
If Buddy demanded something from you, you best better deliver it.
When I work for someone like that, I love it. It is a CHALLENGE.
Bring on the challengers!
Look, there would be no Buddy and countless other drummers/bands if someone didn't challenge someone.
It's AMERICAN...well, also BRITISH too.
I'm sure if you made Robert Fripp look stupid there was hell to pay. Seriously.
That's what is missing from the Rolling Stone-endorsed music. No CHALLENGE...no toughness.
Anyone can play this crap that's on the radio.
Velvet Revolver with Matt SOrum has some intersting drum shit going on, but that's IT>
Where the hell is the next MITCH MITCHELL?
Anyway...I'm having a few brewskis after work...I'm venting.
Can you imagine a new Roli Garcia Jr. getting a chance on Leno???
Give the drummer some...SHEEEIT!!!
LOL
Ditto all.
Yeah, howzabout Jay [or Dave L] bringing Smitty [or Anton, or heck, Kevin FTM] over to the "passengers seat"...& give theim some 10-15 minute luv...yeah, right. How about SSmith...heck, he was in Journey FCOL; Vital [how about intro'g it as "his jazz side project" [img]wink.gif[/img] ], BUDDY's Buddies [that should get him a little mileage, right?!] [img]tongue.gif[/img] ...nah, he's too "musically-nerdy"...besides, then you'd have to interview all kinds of musicians, & we wouldnt want that...playactors only, please...[well, I guess a lot of musicians are too]... [img]wink.gif[/img] Oh wait, then there's Tommy Lee...
I think Weckl or SSmith [regardless of whether or not you like their playg style], would be heir apparent to Buddy's throne [fame-stature] as bandleader, perhaps [but neither have his personality for TV [img]wink.gif[/img] ]...my how times [& attitudes] have changed...
No, peeps wouild rather see Michael Moore, Angelina Jolie, Scott Peterson's or OJ's attorney, Madonna, Britney, Ashlee, some gangsta-thug rapper, or the Flave of da Weak. Oh, ShutTHU widdit, already.
Sheesh. [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] ;c)
Buddy would line 'em all up & drill sargeant their arses 1 by 1. A little of his jiu-jitsu wouldn't hurt either. ;c)
Gotta love that allergy quote from Buddy [excluding contempo bluegrass, & a handful of great ballads, perhaps ;c) ]...that quote was the shizznit. &cD ;cP
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2005 03:03 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>