Need help with JRSC'ed B18C1 boosting 6 psi in a crx.

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November 14th, 2003, 08:21 PM
Hites

what im mainly concerned about is fuel management; im tackling the fitment issues elsewhere. i dont have the budget to use hondata, or the talent to use uberdata; so my best bet is either larger injectors or a larger fuel pump. jr says that you dont need anything at all to run it smoothly, but id rather be safe than sorry. i have a jr btc, jr fmu, boost gauge, and af gauge; im planning on getting a jr map controller and an electric fuel pressure gauge. what ive listed above should be sufficient to keep my engine safe enough and in my tight budget. what i want to know is what fuel pump or injectors i should get. im not planning on boosting above 6 psi, just for the sake of sanity and reliability. would i get a walbro in tank fuel pump for a crx or an integra? which pump? or would i just get larger injectors? if so, what size?
November 14th, 2003, 10:16 PM
gsrteggie

You can get a Walbro fuel pump if you want to be safe. Most guys here use the high output 342 model (Including myself). Some may say the 342 is a overkill for 6psi, or they dont like the noise or the pickup, but I have no problems, and I run 6psi, and have plenty of fuel. I do recommend the map mod. I am also putting on a BTC so i can run stock/increased timing.

As for larger injectors, you dont need them. Only when you start going to 8 psi+ do you need larger injectors. Most guys back in the day did larger injectors in order to run stock/lower fuel pressures when they did larger pullies
November 14th, 2003, 11:09 PM
Hites

yeah, ive heard the 342 is an overkill, but will it make me run rich?
November 14th, 2003, 11:19 PM
Hites

parts list:

crx
b18c long block
hasport engine mounts
integra ls auto tranny
auto p72 ecu
automatic interior pieces
level 10 torque convertor
level 10 stp kit
jr map controller
walbro 342 fuel pump
electronic fuel pressure gauge
taller hood
axles?

well, what did i forget or get wrong? [img]confused.gif[/img]
its going to be harder than hell to do this with $6-7k. can get a crx for $1500 and ive found a b18c long block for $1k; there goes the high dollar items [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ November 14, 2003 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Hites ]
November 15th, 2003, 07:20 AM
JRCivic

Why AUTOMATIC ???
Also, do you have any idea how much WIRING must be done to accomplish what you intend to do ???

Lastly, the Walbro GSS-342 does NOT fit directly into the tank of a 4G ('88-91) Civic or CRX... in fact, the tank must be REMOVED to swap out the fuel pump... and modifications WILL be necessary to make an aftermarket fuel pump work... including any in the Walbro family.

Good luck.
November 15th, 2003, 01:19 PM
CROM

Hites you just took about 20 steps forward on your project as far as difficulty goes.

Like Jim said, you went from a feasible project idea to practically impossible. And why for the love of Altezza Tail Lights and Type R stickers would you even consider going Automatic?

Plus, an Auto tranny for a B-Series is gonna run you atleast 1200-1500 bucks. They are hard as balls to find, and most out there are already gonna be broken. And speaking from experience, the Acura auto tranny is garbage!!! They aren't made for racing or driving even close to hard for that matter.
November 16th, 2003, 12:42 AM
gsrteggie

forgot this was a crx... hehehe

Anyways....

My buddy did a b16 tarnny swap for his GSR. It is the same tranny as the type R (minus LSD) from what I'm told. What I would recommend, if you go b16 tranny, is to get a GSR 5th gear, so you are not crusing at 5K at 80mph. And speaking of LSD, while it's out, get a type-r LSD (or any LSD). You will beed a ring gear prolly if you go type-r. AT a minimum, go Phantom Grip. 20k+ on my PG, no problems.

On the other hand, having the gears so close together is mostly beneficial for NA applications. If you are boosting, you want a GSR tranny (or if you have alot of HP, an LS tranny). Alot of guys with b16's go the GSR route. GSR tranny's go at a premium in some parts of the country.

However, if you are a baller on a budget, the b16 can be used. It just is not ideal IMO.

[ November 15, 2003 08:45 PM: Message edited by: gsrteggie ]
November 16th, 2003, 12:53 AM
Hites

b18c tranny it is. with the budget i planned out when i was going the auto way, i had about $1500 planned for the auto tranny. now that im going the manual way, im planning on spending about $650 on a 7.5 lb flywheel and a centerforce clutch kit; so that frees up $850 for a gsr tranny on my same budget.

now back to my fuel management: what should i get? remember: ive got a jr fmu, jr btc, boost gauge, af gauge; and im planning on getting a jr map controller and an electric fuel pressure gauge.
November 16th, 2003, 04:25 AM
Hites

all your advise is to be followed. in other words: auto out, manual in. i guess trying to be unique and putting in an auto tranny is just way too much trouble for what its worth. was trying to make an "auto-sleeper". honestly, this is going to help my project greatly; gonna ditch the $800 worth of level 10 auto tranny accessories, $300 ecu, $100 worth of interior pieces, and ill have the fitment issues cleared up. now... why didnt i do this in the first place [img]confused.gif[/img] ? dont know, dont care. so, should i get a b16 tranny (shorter gears)? or is it not strong enough to handle my application? is the b18c tranny beefier and better for my application? depending on what tranny i should get, what should i get with it to get the most out of it? im looking for something smooth and affordable. if youve ever driven an svt focus, you know how smooth i want it to be.

[ November 15, 2003 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Hites ]
November 16th, 2003, 10:35 PM
Hites

Quote:

Originally posted by Hites:
b18c tranny it is. with the budget i planned out when i was going the auto way, i had about $1500 planned for the auto tranny.

now back to my fuel management: what should i get? remember: ive got a jr fmu, jr btc, boost gauge, af gauge; and im planning on getting a jr map controller and an electric fuel pressure gauge.
November 16th, 2003, 11:25 PM
CROM

Hites,

For a B18C1 with the 6psi kit, you only need to have the Map Mod, JR FMU, BTC, and NGK BKR7E-11 spark plugs gapped at .38-.42. You don't even need the BTC, but I enjoy having it so that during stop and go traffic my timing isnt severely retarded and my car bogs constantly.

If you plan on just staying with 6psi, you dont even need a fuel pressure gauge (inside the car). You can get a 30 dollar B&M gauge for under the hood.

I had that setup for a long time and my car ran consistent mid 13's.

As for the fitment, I really am not sure if the blower will fit inside the engine bay of a CRX with the B18C1 stuffed in there.
November 17th, 2003, 01:13 AM
keebler65

CROM-

i was just wondering about your suggestion of .38-.42 plug gap. i was running .35 but then i switched it to .33. can i gain more power with a larger gap, assuming the spark doesnt blow out? (i'm at 6psi as well). is the gain significant?

thanks
November 17th, 2003, 02:08 AM
Hites

Quote:

Originally posted by CROM:
Hites,

For a B18C1 with the 6psi kit, you only need to have the Map Mod, JR FMU, BTC, and NGK BKR7E-11 spark plugs gapped at .38-.42. You don't even need the BTC, but I enjoy having it so that during stop and go traffic my timing isnt severely retarded and my car bogs constantly.

If you plan on just staying with 6psi, you dont even need a fuel pressure gauge (inside the car). You can get a 30 dollar B&M gauge for under the hood.

I had that setup for a long time and my car ran consistent mid 13's.

As for the fitment, I really am not sure if the blower will fit inside the engine bay of a CRX with the B18C1 stuffed in there.

what about fuel pump? i hardly believe that the crx fuel pump can supply enough fuel for a jrsc'ed b18c. would the mechanical fuel pressure gauge only be observed on the dyno or out of gear, just for like a once in awile check if everything is where it should be? ill make it fit somehow; heck, to just put a b18c in a crx, you have to bang up the sub-frame so itll fit. guess ill have to whack on the firewall too if it doesnt want to cooperate [img]smile.gif[/img] .

btw, will the jr btc and map controller work properly if i get a modified p28 ecu from here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2442901775
November 17th, 2003, 11:23 AM
CROM

My bad,

YES, you also need a high pressure/high flow pump. But as Jim stated, its gonna be a good 2-4 hour job.

You CANNOT use one of those "Modified" ECU's. Those ECU's have much different fuel and timing curves (highly advanced timing)...they are for ALL MOTOR applications ONLY!!!

Keebler: That is the gap I have used for a long long time. Im not sure of the gains, but it seems to work just fine for me, and actually should help a little bit.

[ November 17, 2003 07:28 AM: Message edited by: CROM ]
November 17th, 2003, 11:53 AM
Hites

so i should just keep the p72 that comes with the swap, correct? is the fuel pump i should be getting the walbro gss 342-965? am i going to need an obd0 -> obd1 conversion harness for the ecu?
November 18th, 2003, 10:58 PM
Hites

Quote:

Originally posted by Hites:
so i should just keep the p72 that comes with the swap, correct? is the fuel pump i should be getting the walbro gss 342-965? am i going to need an obd0 -> obd1 conversion harness for the ecu?
November 19th, 2003, 12:24 AM
CROM

The P72 is an OBD-I GSR ECU. So yes, keep that ECU.

Im not sure on the whole compatibility issue involved with swapping in this motor to your CRX. I am sure Jim knows the answer and probably lots of guys out there on Honda-Tech know the answer to this as well.
November 19th, 2003, 12:37 AM
Hites

ive got 3 posts going on ht (crx, integra, hybrid) asking every question i have on project. ive been told i need the harness because the 88-91 crx is obd0, but the p72 is obd1. now what about that fuel pump?
November 19th, 2003, 01:18 AM
CROM

Well, according to Jim, the process of installing a fuel pump into a CRX isnt as easy as the integra's and newer civics.

You are going to have to do a search on that one and ask guys who have CRX's, nobody here has a CRX and I myself havent worked on one before.
November 19th, 2003, 09:23 PM
Hites

anything else i should be concerned about when i swap in the jrsc b18c? any suggestions?
November 20th, 2003, 08:31 PM
Hites

never got this question answered:
is the walbro gss 342-965 the appropriate pump?
November 21st, 2003, 04:05 PM
JRCivic

Walbro DOES NOT make a replacement pump for the '88-91 Civic/CRX. This means that the GSS-342 pump, (and any 190 lph or 255 lph pump within the same chassis family), WILL require modifications to the fuel tank pump bracket and the wiring within the tank.

Jackson Racing used to sell a fuel pump conversion kit for the 4G cars... you might contact them to see if it is still available.
November 22nd, 2003, 05:57 PM
Hites

guess ill just get a walbro and do some work with it. im thinking about getting an apexi vafc; is this a wise decision? found a stock of them that are going for $260 shipped, which sounds like a decent price to me. if i had the apexi vafc, would i need the jr map controller? does anyone else have the apexi vafc? how easy is it to use? with an af gauge, could i just tune it with it out of gear in my driveway by reving to 500 rpm increments and adjusting the fuel accordingly?
November 22nd, 2003, 09:38 PM
217gsr

Even with the VAFC, you will still need a MAP controller. I think the VAFC is a great tool to use if you decide not to go standalone. It's easy to use and easy to install. But you cannot just tune it by revving in 500 rpm increments because your A/F will change when your car is under load (ie. moving). If you're spending a whole lot of money to buy parts, why not just have it dyno tuned?
November 22nd, 2003, 09:54 PM
Hites

Quote:

Originally posted by 217gsr:
Even with the VAFC, you will still need a MAP controller. I think the VAFC is a great tool to use if you decide not to go standalone. It's easy to use and easy to install. But you cannot just tune it by revving in 500 rpm increments because your A/F will change when your car is under load (ie. moving). If you're spending a whole lot of money to buy parts, why not just have it dyno tuned?

im not even sure if my budget will allow a vafc or a map controller. on 6 psi, dyno tuning is not a must. now if i were boosting like 12 psi, i would dyno tune without a doubt. so i can basically go up and down the road and make mental notes of how my af ratio is, right? the nearest dyno is over 2 hrs away also.