Your hi-hat

I am using 14 inch Mastersound and I am thinking of getting 14 inch quick beat hats. What kind of hats do you use and would you recommend?

Hey DDSoc
Wondering if you caught my thread in another forum? I am dealing w/this very topic right now!!!

I have Sabian 14" med on top and Paiste Rude 1000 on bottom and am not happy right now. I am after a more Porcaro sound yet am baffled due to recording technology and what "really" the acoustic hats sound like. So, whenever I hear a live performer I like, I am at the drum kit after first set is over.

When I hear Virgil Live (the drummer I've heard the most over the past two years) he has a killer snare sound. I've got his head choices and and tried to obtain his tuning method. Virg plays a very open sounding kit, almost what you would see in your local drum shop. His hats don't cry out to me, so I've not pursued his choice.

Herman Matthews has a good sound, but his ride stood out to me seeing him Live.

On record, Jeff's hat sound is what I'm basically after. Rayford Griffin has a nice sound as well. I feel Jeff's hats are key, but how he plays them is the real story. After viewing some rather rare TOTO concerts from the Hydra tour, Turn Back tour, IV tour, and a late Kingdom of Desrie show, there is total consistency in how Jeff played his hats. As David Garfield said about Jeff, it's his total conviction and focus as he plays the notes which make him stand apart from the pack.

There are SO many great players and hats sounds out there. Maybe it's a paraylsis from choices today.

Still in search of hat love! [img]redface.gif[/img]

Why quick beats? I'm using a bottom New Beat from the 80's and a thinner top Zildjian from the 70's. I've been using these for the last 12 years and I haven't found anything that sounds or feels as good. I would suggest just experimenting and trying different combinations until you find something that works for you. Sometimes these thing just creep up on you. I camee across some new K's while on tour and I decided not to get them...bad mistake! You just never know. Ultimately,you want to find some thing that works well with your ride. It's hard because it's a very important and personal part of your sound and groove. Take your time....

When I had a few bucks to spend I decided to personalize my hats like the pros did, with different tops and bottoms, and found a nice combo in 13" Zildjians - Z on bottom, and Quick Beat on top.

But that's just me.

[img]wink.gif[/img]

Hey PocketPlayer, if you're having trouble finding the right cymbal, register on the Cymbalholic forums forums (You have to register for the cymbal disscussion forums to appear, otherwise guests can only few the Member cymbal picture gallerys I think). There's loads of cymbal experts to help out with cymbal advice and finding that perfect sound.

I have about 6 or so different pairs of hats.
Sabian 14' regular
Paiste 14" signature heavy (jeff and carlos used these)
Bosphorus 14" Gold (on the heavsy side)
Sabian 13" Garibaldi hats (tight sound)
These I use the most

Yes it's very possible to find a pair of hats for ALL situations.

Thanks for the cymbalholic site...mostly images and very little discussion going on (replies).

I've thought seriously about that Garibaldi set-up Randy. Funk drumming has become my love the past two years or so, yet, I mostly play cover band stuff which is pop rock.

Here's a dated example, but one that comes to mind. The into of The Babys tune, "Head First" starts with 4 hat beats B4 the band kicks in. Tony Brock plays a perfect tight hat sound during the verse and before the chorus, starts to loosen up as he builds to the chorus. This "swish" he gets is perfect IMO. The hats used (recorded) allow for a very crisp, full sound, and the swish still maintains. When I play the same way, my hats seem to fall out during the "swish"...they just don't have a full sound to me.

My top hat is probably too light, but I tend to be weary of heavy 14". It surprises me Jeff used 14" heavy hats with his more diminutive kit (14" floor tom) as seen in his video. I saw a Live TOTO show off the Hydra tour and he seemed to be playing Rude cymbals on the hats. I will have to stop the DVD for a closer look next time...I'm sure they were 14" and looked heavy. When I heard him play "Hold the Line" he got the same sound he had on the studio cut.

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Originally posted by PocketPlayer:
Thanks for the cymbalholic site...mostly images and very little discussion going on (replies).

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You need to register/sign-up to have access to the cymbal disscussion forums. You only get access to the image galleries as a visiting guest. Honestly, theres some great discussion going on in the main forums.

I use and love 14" Quick Beats, Brilliant finish. I also own 13 Ks, K/Zs and 13 K Custom Darks. All are great.

I think the Soul Cages video with Vinnie is a classic example of how 14" Quick Beats sound. Also, in my experience those particular hi-hats are VERY consistent pair to pair so you could mail order those without fear. K's are nowhere near as consistent; I would not buy those without hearing them in person.

I play 13" Quick Beats, A Custom, K/Z combo.
I used to play 14" but after playing 13" Hi Hats for so long, the 14" feels big, and ringy. I know that they aren't but they feel that way.

I also have a pair of 12" which are cool, but I only use them in the studio and for certain situations.

I got a pair of 13" K/Z hats in the late 80's that I've used ever since. I've gotten so used to their sound and feel that, nowadays, regular-weight hats sound and feel kind of wimpy.

Having said that, I've been thinking about going back to 14" hats with a more standard-weight bottom cymbal. I was thinking something along the lines of an A Custom Mastersound bottom with either an A Custom top, or a K or K Custom top.

I have also been considering getting one of the new Z Custom bottoms for mine, assuming its a thinner cymbal than the old Z Dyno Beat.

I've tried some new Sabian HHX hats in stores and they really sound great, too.

I want to get that "sloshing" foot technique that Tony Williams and Steve Smith use, but it doesn't work so well with such a heavy bottom cymbal.

I was thinking about getting the K Session hats and maybe using a mastersound bottom (since the bottom of the Session hats are lighter than the top) That way I get a tighter sound than the 14 Avedis Mastersounds I use now. I used to play 13 inch new beats but I sold those years ago.... Man I should hav3e held on to them...... Any using the Steve Gadd Session hats?

I play 14" Quick Beats from the late 70s and are really heavy and have that great tight/bright sound that cuts through anything. I also play 14" K Custom Darks that I REALLY love because they are SO expressive. Also 13" K's are nice and not too loud.

The one thing that I really look for is finding the right hihats to match the snare in both texture and color. This makes a HUGE difference to me, especially when playing Porcaro or Garibaldi type ghost notes. So depending on the snare, I select which hats work best.

But that's just me.

I think the only thing that can answer you is your ears. You can see that everyone uses different hats. If you want your own sound, then that depends on whatever you like the sound of, regardless of what anyone else recommends or uses. That's my 2 cents. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hear hear!! Well said Rudy... and it's two PENCE - you're English, remember?!?!?! [img]wink.gif[/img]

Is that what is happening to me? I see this forum as a pro-level forum and I have really benefited from all the advice. Has my playing gotten to a point where I need to find my own sound for hi-hats? I like the way my Mastersounds sound when "sopping" them or playing them open.
Do you think it's possible to find a pair of hats that fit every situation I play? I play gospel, rock, jazz, funk, R&B, top 40 and swing..... Oh yeah they have to sound great live and in the studio..........

My main hats are:
14" Paiste 602 Sound Edge-these have a bright and not very loud stepped sound. very bright attack when closed. sounds like Stewart Copeland's hats on Red Rain from Peter Gabriel's So.

12' Zildjian Special Recording-same sound as the Paiste but higher pitched and "tighter". I swap out the bottom cymbal for a 12" splash on acoustic jazz gigs for a low volume stepped sound.

14" K Istanbul top/ 14" Paiste Taditional thin crash bottom- typical bop sound, very dark and low pitched. warm and low volume stepped sound.

Interesting item...would you bid on them? Another drummer from another forum is putting them up

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3717538631

Pocket, to my knowledge Jeff never used RUDE cymbals. His earlier sessions including the first TOTO tours, he used old Zildjians.

Randy,

On the Hydra DVD, he's playing RUDES which you can easily identify with the white type and funky round finish effect. I was really surprised when I saw that too.

I thought Jeff played 602 hats and ride most of the time?

Yea,
Porcaro mixed his hats but he was so consistant on top it really didn't matter what he
used. He once said in MD that he liked 602's and sometimes an old A on top and an old
Tosco (with holes) on the bottom.

For me... It?s no big deal, I almost always use my standard 14" new beats but sometimes
for recordings maybe, I?ll mix em with a quick beat or my K or whatever is lying around.

Chick... chicky boom... chick... chicky boom.

Thanks Danny, i will look again. Jeff did mix cymbals,
In videos for the 7th One disc, he used ALL K Zildjians.

Yo Randy Man
I will take a very close look at that TOTO Hydra Tour gig I have on DVD. I swear he was using Rudes...even tho the Paiste site says they came out in the late 80's.

I'll get back here...