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just dynoed my prelude with blower after having it on for about 2 months.did a few start and stop runs on the street and heard a groaning noise from the exhaust/feul pump area.After about 4 runs the noise stopped so I headed back home. On the highway, driving along and suddenly I lose ALL throttle response. The lights are on( no flickering),radio is playing,AC is on, and J&S monitor is reading in the yellow portion of the monitor.Barely made it off the highway.Now the ignition will not turn over.It will crank, but it refuses to turn over.Right before all this happened a had set the cruise control to see what the J&S monitor would read and it was in the green for the most part, sometimes yellow.I had just turned the cruise control off when all of this happened.
For 2 months I have had only 1 incident since the blower was installed. After a nice highway run about a month and a half ago, I shut the car off, go inside, come out about 10 minutes later and the ignition would not turn over.It cranked but would not turn over until the next morning. No check engine lights or anything and have not had another problem until this evening.
Pretty much the only thing adjusted on the dyno was the fuel pressure regulator and a few clicks on the BTC. The J&S setting is still the same.The FPR is adjusted all the way in and I am still at 13.5 air/fuel ratio on the dyno........which means i was running even leaner before the dyno session.
Could I possibly have a bad fuel pump?
It doesn't seem to be electrical so was the cruise control incident just coincidence?
Also I bypassed the J&S(by just connecting the green and white wires to see if that was the problem.......no effect!
GRRRRRRRR-what is it?
Someone please offer advice
98 Honda Prelude
AEM cold air intake,mugen header,mugen exhuast,AEM underdrive pulley(power steering only)Jackson supercharger, stock boost,Walbro fuel pump 255flow rate according to Jackson
[This message has been edited by jshroud (edited July 31, 2001).]
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Check your distributor, that's where most ignition problems seem to locate to, and if this has happened before, yours could be going bad, happened in my brothers accord a few times where the ignitor just dies and his car stops working. As for your a/f ratio, 13.5 is running pretty dangerously, how's the activity on your J&S? You should be running near 12.3-12.7 to be on the safe side as far as I know.
jon
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Sounds like the walbro pump may be dying. just my 2 cents.
Joe
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRSCGSR:
Check your distributor, that's where most ignition problems seem to locate to, and if this has happened before, yours could be going bad, happened in my brothers accord a few times where the ignitor just dies and his car stops working. As for your a/f ratio, 13.5 is running pretty dangerously, how's the activity on your J&S? You should be running near 12.3-12.7 to be on the safe side as far as I know.
jon<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
yea I know. The J&S seems fine-in the red during wide open throttle, yellow most of the time when I'm cruising and green most of the time when i use cruise control......in other words pretty normal.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by falconGSR:
Sounds like the walbro pump may be dying. just my 2 cents.
Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
that's what i thought and it might still be the case.....but i started pulling fuses and found the prelude has 2 fuel pump fuses--one was missing for some strange reason and the other was blown.replaced them both and the car started right up.
temporary fix until i can find out why it blew in the first place.
also my J&S is well into the red during WOT, yet the dyno shows I'm running about 13.5 a/f ratio. sounds weird to me.
also after dyno tune my BTC is set much higher to retard now aprox. 9-10 clicks as opposed to 4-5 clicks and I get lots of black smoke out the tailpipe. I'm able to induce detonation by jumping on the throttle hard in 3rd,4th,and 5th gear as opposed to before only in 5th gear. Also in 5th gear now it pulls so much timing out if i jump on it that the car just bogs down.
if i'm running lean on the dyno why does the J&S not show it?
would bigger injectors bring down my fuel pressure?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by falconGSR:
Sounds like the walbro pump may be dying. just my 2 cents.
Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
that's what i thought and it might still be the case.....but i started pulling fuses and found the prelude has 2 fuel pump fuses--one was missing for some strange reason and the other was blown.replaced them both and the car started right up.
temporary fix until i can find out why it blew in the first place.
also my J&S is well into the red during WOT, yet the dyno shows I'm running about 13.5 a/f ratio. sounds weird to me.
also after dyno tune my BTC is set much higher to retard now aprox. 9-10 clicks as opposed to 4-5 clicks and I get lots of black smoke out the tailpipe. I'm able to induce detonation by jumping on the throttle hard in 3rd,4th,and 5th gear as opposed to before only in 5th gear. Also in 5th gear now it pulls so much timing out if i jump on it that the car just bogs down.
if i'm running lean on the dyno why does the J&S not show it?
would bigger injectors bring down my fuel pressure?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshroud:
if i'm running lean on the dyno why does the J&S not show it?
would bigger injectors bring down my fuel pressure?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, the dyno uses a wideband which is far more accurate than the O2 sensor your car uses. The stock o2 reads either rich, lean, or stoich. The wideband reads exactly how rich or lean. That's why you can't rely on those...and why the dynojet wideband costs 2500! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif
Bigger injectors will allow you to bring down your fuel pressures substantially. I'd recommend some RC 310's or similar sized with an Apex unit to dial it in exactly. Then you will have almost spent as much as you would for a Hondata which would solve all your problems forever...trust me.
Jay, until you get a Hondata system, be prepared to get used to these bandaid headaches. I tried to tune your car conservatively since you are running so lean. This is why it doesn't run quite a strong as it did before - for safety. HTH
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-JG-
-1994 Civic EX-
-Block in the shop, turbo in the closet!-
-vapor-trail.net-
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If you popped a fuse, I would say you need to swap out the pump. Warranty?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VaporTrail:
I tried to tune your car conservatively since you are running so lean.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
John, you tuned it yourself? Does this mean there's another JRSC Lude in Tampa besides me?
Oh man...what IS the world coming to...
J/k. jshroud, if you need to compare setups or settings, don't hesitate to contact me: [email protected]
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'98 White Prelude
JRSC
AEM Short Ram
GC's with 450/375 springs
Koni Adj Shocks
DC Sports Ceramic Headers
Rear ST Sway Bar
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jshroud; if you want to change injectors, don't bother with anything less than 370cc.. stock is 270, and going to 310 will not help at all. if you want, 370 should still be within the ecu capabilities to idle it. of cse, you will still have to use the fpr, but at least you will run less fuel pressure and your fuel pump will prob. draw less current then.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VaporTrail:
Ok, the dyno uses a wideband which is far more accurate than the O2 sensor your car uses. The stock o2 reads either rich, lean, or stoich. The wideband reads exactly how rich or lean. That's why you can't rely on those...and why the dynojet wideband costs 2500! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif
Bigger injectors will allow you to bring down your fuel pressures substantially. I'd recommend some RC 310's or similar sized with an Apex unit to dial it in exactly. Then you will have almost spent as much as you would for a Hondata which would solve all your problems forever...trust me.
Jay, until you get a Hondata system, be prepared to get used to these bandaid headaches. I tried to tune your car conservatively since you are running so lean. This is why it doesn't run quite a strong as it did before - for safety. HTH
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
hey john,what's up. Yea i found the problem-1 missing fuse and 1 blown. took it down to john and he's going to put in a fuel guage for me. we back down the pressure on the FPR......something about NEVER to max it out because it screws with fuel pressure.john says i MUST have a guage because the change in fuel pressure is not linear to the adjustment of the FPR.
also i was told that the readings should not be taken from the tailpipe but rather before the cat....says there could be significant differences in readings?
I seemed to be running awfully rich john-LOTS of thick, black smoke from my tailpipe,and MAJOR bogging in 5th gear, so after backing of the FPR and turning down the BTC(adding timing)the ride runs much better and so far everythings fine on the J&S monitor.
think i may try bigger injector, colder thermostat and more tuning for power
john still researching the Hondata but until i find someone or "someones" with a prelude getting good or great results i'll probably sit on the fence. I would prefer a system that works with OBDII or at least does not include civic ECUs. Stills seems pretty patchwork to me....at least on Lude's!!
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iranman:
John, you tuned it yourself? Does this mean there's another JRSC Lude in Tampa besides me?
Oh man...what IS the world coming to...
J/k. jshroud, if you need to compare setups or settings, don't hesitate to contact me: [email protected]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
thanks iranman, yea dude john at LHT installed my blower about 3 days after he did yours..you already had an appointment by the time I set mine. I talked to you on the Honda-Acura site before.Thanx for telling everyone about the power system pump adapter issue that was a big help!i'll get in touch with you.How's the blower working out for you?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by falconGSR:
If you popped a fuse, I would say you need to swap out the pump. Warranty?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
pump seems to be fine now and after backing of the FPR pressure, it should be fine at least until I get a guage
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshroud:
How's the blower working out for you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
213WHP w/ intake & headers running slightly on the lean side. I love it. Only problems I have as of now are partial throttle leaning under heavy loads in 4th & 5th gears, torque steer, and traction.
I don't know if you tried this, but check out preludeonline.com. h-a.net split, and 80% of us migrated over to PO.com. You'll find me mostly in the forced induction section, where I made a mini-Jrsc-faq.
If I may ask, how did your dyno turn out?
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'98 White Prelude
JRSC
AEM Short Ram
GC's with 450/375 springs
Koni Adj Shocks
DC Sports Ceramic Headers
Rear ST Sway Bar
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98lude...
The stock injector size on the '97+ Prelude is 290cc @ 43psi.
The '92-96 car came with 330cc injectors...
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshroud:
also i was told that the readings should not be taken from the tailpipe but rather before the cat....says there could be significant differences in readings?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have tested this "theory" and found it to be highly untrue. Readings before and after the cat varied only very slightly.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I seemed to be running awfully rich john-LOTS of thick, black smoke from my tailpipe,and MAJOR bogging in 5th gear, so after backing of the FPR and turning down the BTC(adding timing)the ride runs much better and so far everythings fine on the J&S monitor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I guess if you're going to second guess my tuning, go right ahead. As I said, your car is running far too lean in this heat to be running the amount of timing it was. I tuned it so you would not blow your motor - if you wanna second guess my logic, experience, and tuning, go ahead - it's your car. Remember though, leaner is meaner, and a motor often feels it's strongest right before it grenades itself.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>think i may try bigger injector, colder thermostat and more tuning for power
john still researching the Hondata but until i find someone or "someones" with a prelude getting good or great results i'll probably sit on the fence. I would prefer a system that works with OBDII or at least does not include civic ECUs. Stills seems pretty patchwork to me....at least on Lude's!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
look in the forced induction forum at honda-tech.com there was a guy with a turbo prelude which had great gains from it. I can't understand why you're wanting to do the things you are, like why you'd want OBD2.
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-JG-
-1994 Civic EX-
-Block in the shop, turbo in the closet!-
-vapor-trail.net-
[This message has been edited by VaporTrail (edited August 02, 2001).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRCivic:
98lude...
The stock injector size on the '97+ Prelude is 290cc @ 43psi.
The '92-96 car came with 330cc injectors...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup...what Jim said http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
http://www.muller.net/sonny/injectors/ludespec.jpg
98 Prelude injectors tested at 43 psi and 100% duty cycle (injectors held wide open). This is the standard way to test injectors.
BTW, if anyone is interested, I also sent a long a B series injector from a 2000 Civic Si:
http://www.muller.net/sonny/injectors/sispec.jpg
Sonny
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Sonny Van Hook ([email protected])
2000 Supercharged Civic Si @ 6psi
1999 Tonykart/Honda 80cc Shifter
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First off, easy on the "doubting experience, logic stuff.........for real.I'm trying to learn by considering all sources, books, magazines,other experienced people, other preludes FI cars combined with my own mechanical background to make this kit work as well, practically, and cost-effective as
possible!(i don't doubt your skills so just chill)
As far as the cat-reading issue, I respect what you say also. I'ts conflicting info like that that spurs me to know for myself all the facets of both thoeries.
Like I said as I find more info on the Hondata and feel more confident in it, the more satisfied I will become.Until then no rush for me.
[This message has been edited by jshroud (edited August 02, 2001).]
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[B]
If I may ask, how did your dyno turn out?
214hp
186ft-lbs torque
not expecting Jackson numbers-most integra's on this board didn't make them at first, even with mods.
not too concerned about HP just looking for my other 14 or so pounds of torque
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Be patient and grow with the car... the HP will come.
Oscar didn't make it in just a few weeks... it took him nearly a year.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRCivic:
[B]Be patient and grow with the car... the HP will come.
Oscar didn't make it in just a few weeks... it took him nearly a year.
Actually he made those numbers relatively early on in the development cycle of the prelude. Just spoke to him a few days ago, and explained exactly the issues.
Oscar confirmed the rise in fuel pressure IS NOT linear to the adjustment of the FPR. He advised me to recheck fuel pressure and set it at 70PSI with the hose line off.Once my fuel press. guage is installed it's a done deal. Also said prelude injectors are 290CC.
As far as taking A/F readings from the exhaust or before the cat.convertor, he advised me the readings always be taken before the cat as the convertor leans out the mixture leading to slightly lean readings on the dyno.
On the question of the 238HP and 201ft-lbs of torque on the test-mule base prelude of a few years ago, he says those numbers were BEFORE the reinstallation of all of the emissions devices and once that was done, Jakson had to repost the lower numbers to reflect the change.
