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After doing some full-throttle dyno-tuning, my GSR doesn't run properly while commuting. A/F ratio is constantly bouncing between too rich and too lean conditions while I'm giving the car consistent throttle. Sadly, I'm still running on my stock ECU with the JR MAP Controller and a Field SFC-VTEC Controller. I need a new ECU badly, Hondata looks pretty good, but should I just wait for summer and save up for AEM EMS? Suggestions please...
Speaking from personal experience I would recommend going with Hondata. Why? Because there are TONS of user and tuner base maps to choose from to get you started.
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...U0MQ%3D%3D.jpg
bolt ons and hondata at 6psi [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 23, 2004 02:22 AM: Message edited by: cogswellguy ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 23, 2004 02:23 AM: Message edited by: cogswellguy ]</font>
98ZexGSR...Sounds like you need a little help! What does you setup consist of? If we knew your setup we could point you a little better. To me it sounds like you need some more tuning and or info on what is going on.
FYI...If you are running a Autometer or similar type A/F display it will NOT show the proper reading for the A/F ratio while at part throttle even if it is constant...it will bounce back and forth as you described....that is a normal funtion and is OK!
John
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 23, 2004 09:25 AM: Message edited by: CivicR ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 23, 2004 09:26 AM: Message edited by: CivicR ]</font>
I know that it does that normally, but when I give the car partial throttle like when I'm climbing up a hill, it will run really rich and I can feel throttle hesitation. Here's my setup:
I/H/E
AEM Pulleys
JRSC @ 9 psi
Walbro Pump
310cc injectors
Stock FPR
R1 A/F and Oil Pressure gauge
JR MAP Sensor
Field SFC-VTEC Controller
The A/F is absolutely fine under full throttle conditions, only it is a tad on the rich side. But daily driving is a pain in the ass.
^ I think that's what I'm going to do. So should I get the Hondata S200 ECU?
I would go with hondata because there is more research and development. We live right next to each other. There is a guy in mass. with a JRSC LHT GSr running 10lbs running hondata and he works at a tuning place. This is where im going to tune my car since he is familiar with our setups. His name is Jeremy Green and he is a really nice guy. I havnt installed my JRSC yet Im waiting for better weather but he is going to tune my car. He also tunes other cars and its his specialty at work. http://www.ktrperformance.com
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 23, 2004 03:44 PM: Message edited by: InfamousGSR ]</font>
wow, $150 an hour is a lot! But it sounds like its worth looking into. Thanks for the info. Anytime your in Newport, gimme a PM, if ur 21+ we could hit the bars.
98ZexGSR...They will ONLY show the A/F correctly when you are at full throttle...aka....pedal to the floor!
PS....when i say correctly I mean as best they can...those types of guages should really not be relied upon soley to monitor the exact/true A/F ratio since they are pretty inaccurate!
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 23, 2004 12:24 PM: Message edited by: CivicR ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 23, 2004 12:26 PM: Message edited by: CivicR ]</font>
With your setup you should be ok...sounds like you need some more tuning time! If your tuner cannot resolve those issues it might be time to move on and find another tuner...good luck
aem ems and hondata are really two different monsters. it all depends how much time you want to invest, and how much of that time is going to be your own, or with a tunder (or on a dyno).
as far as more R&D into hondata? eh, i'm not sure about that. aem did just recently design the ems from the ground up, based pretty much on what everybody wanted. they continue to add new features, free; and they're only a rom-update away.
hondata will get you from not-tuned to tuned much more quickly than aem ems. by this, i mean start to finish. this is because you're already starting from a stock honda map, and you're only modifying what you need to in order to make the car run. in the case of JRSC's, this means very little part-throttle tuning, as the car's essentially acting like stock until you cross over into positive manifold pressure.
now, on the flipside, aem ems will require you to massage the entire map. this is where the time comes into play. if you feel like learning to tune yourself, then this is the way to go. you can buy a cheap wideband setup, and have at it, and get pretty good results. you must, however, also deal with air-intake temp fueling compensation, cranking fuel, entire ign map massaging, etc etc. expect a lot of time. if you don't feel like doing all this yourself, then ems probably isn't the way to go, as you'll easily spend a tuner 20+ hours doing all this for you.
then there's always all the gee-whiz features the aem ems has to offer... but they take time to seup as well. these include traction control, water injection mapping, full nitrous control and tuning, boost control (not for JRSC's without additional hardware), and making coffee (not really, but who knows what to expect with next rom update).
the one thing i don't tend to list as differences is WOT dyno tuning. this is because, surprisingly, neither system takes much longer than the other, when in the hands of an experienced tuner.
I agree with everything that "Daboyinblu" just said with ONE exception:
The AEM, with all of its amazingly wonderful bells and whistles has one whale of an achillies heel when compared to the Hondata system: It only has ONE fuel table and ONE timing table !!! This is NOT the proper way to tune a VTEC Honda engine (especially not a DOHC one) !!! One must have the ability to tune both the fuel and timing curves for EITHER lobes seperately...
This relates to a question I was asked a few weeks ago by a heavily mis-informed customer...
"I just put a VTEC head on my D15B7 to make a MINI-ME... can't I just use my stock computer and run my VTEC with a push-button on the shifter ?!?"
I looked at him in total disbelief and said "NOOOOO, not if you want it to do anything more than make VTEC noise and run LEAN !!!"
[img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img]
I guess some people really just DON'T GET IT...
very true, forgot about that issue we had.
however, i did have a crazy idea on the drive home from dyno-day. if you ever tune another vtec aem ems car, it might be worth trying out.
you could change the nitrous output to control the vtec solenoid, and then use the 3-D nitrous fuel/ignition map to tune the high-cam, and use the "main" fuel/ign map for the low-cam. the result would be completely independent fuel/ign maps for the different cams.
if i get bored some day, i might try it. i'm 99% confident it's a viable option.
I suppose that is a possibility...
Hmmmmmm,
How would you actually ENGAGE VTEC ??? Doesn't the Nitrous control have to be "activated" by some external source ??? If so, you would have to hit a button or something to engage VTEC...
I know there is a provision for a TPS engagement point... however, it still has to be "Armed" to reach the possibility of engagement.
you can set the "activate nitrous" (or arming) switch to "always on"... then you can make rpm, TPS, MAP, vehicle speed, or any combination thereof be the trigger.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2004 02:10 AM: Message edited by: daboynblu ]</font>
OK then...
This would mean we would have to completely RETUNE the car with VTEC turned off first. Then, engage VTEC using the TPS above say 50% and 2000 rpm... and TUNE the Nitrous (VTEC) fuel and timing maps.
Do-able... but a whole lot more work than the Hondata system.
heheheheh
LOL... i just can't win with you [img]tongue.gif[/img]
i concede, hahaha.
probably best left to people that like to waste tons of time with this piece.
When I said more R&D I meant because of the base maps that hondata offers for JRSC's which are really good maps.
Ok, I'm sold for the Hondata system. I'm just sick of check engine lights and the car running too rich at part throttle like going up hills and stuff. Which options should I get? This is what I was thinking:
Base S200: $295
Boost Capability: $200
Do I have to get the OBDI converter since my car is a 98?
You can buy S200 with boost option for $425.
You need a OBDII to OBDI harness which is 75$ shipped and make sure you get one with lifetime warranty. Also you need a ecu since your ecu is a obdII ecu. Your choices are a a P72 which is off a older gsr, P30 which is off a del sol vtec 92-95 or a P28 which is most common and it comes from 92-95 civic ex/si's.
P72= knock sensor, IAB(intake butterflys), Vtec
P30= knock sensor, vtec
P28= vtec
The knock sensor isnt really needed because the sensor only works up to 5,000rpm. Also you can buy a P28 ecu from a junkyard and they go for $100 and then you need someone to socket the ecu. When you buy the S200 it comes with the stuff to socket up the ecu. Jeremy green can do it but not sure how much he charges.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2004 10:32 PM: Message edited by: InfamousGSR ]</font>
75 bucks for obd2->obd1 adapter nowadays? seesh... [img]confused.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 30, 2004 01:03 AM: Message edited by: daboynblu ]</font>
This is a little off topic, but I have a question about these systems. I don't know that much about the AEM EMS, but I know that hondata can easily be tuned for a nitrous set-up or for a supercharger. My question is what about the guys that are running BOTH the jrsc AND nitrous? The jrsc boost doesn't kick in unless the engine is under load, and the NO2 would only shoot at WOT. Can either of these systems be tuned to adjust the A/F and timing to compensate for both the blower and NO2 at the same time?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I also had a question about that a few weeks ago and Jim said that the Hondata was capable of controlling both at the same time. Hopefully he can chime in with a more technical responseQuote:
Originally posted by fredtoast:
This is a little off topic, but I have a question about these systems. I don't know that much about the AEM EMS, but I know that hondata can easily be tuned for a nitrous set-up or for a supercharger. My question is what about the guys that are running BOTH the jrsc AND nitrous? The jrsc boost doesn't kick in unless the engine is under load, and the NO2 would only shoot at WOT. Can either of these systems be tuned to adjust the A/F and timing to compensate for both the blower and NO2 at the same time?
[img]wink.gif[/img]
From what I have found out about hondata you would get a regular base map that compensates for the sc and another "overlay map" that adds fuel and pulls timing for the NO2. I think it will even control when the NO2 shoots based on speed, RPM, engine load, and other shit. This stuff is amazing to me.
Anyone know about AEM EMS?
aem ems has completely separate nitrous 3-D fuel map.
you tune for the boost in the regular main fuel map, or the boost compensation maps if you're turboed.
i thought hondata only had "blanket" tuning for nitrous?