Thomas Lang DVD review

I got the DVD 2 days ago and I've pretty much watched the whole thing. I must say I believe that 5 plus hrs of content is a good deal for 50 bucks. Thomas Lang obviously has fantastic technique. His foot techniques and control he demonstrates is astounding to me. Anyone looking for Gadd or Vinnie like performances should look elsewhere.
I don't buy into the arguement of feel vs technique because each drummer is playing what the music asks for. Lang is trying trying to be Vinnie or Gadd or vice-versa. That being said, anyone looking for a brilliant display of technique will love this DVD. My only complaint is that he shows you what patterns he does with his technique and practice methods, he doesn't explain or show how to get the technique. An example of this would be foot technique. He doesn't really break down the mechanics of his foot stroke in detail. Or doesn't talk about finger control and so on. Maybe I believed the DVD would have this stuff based on the ads for the DVD. I could have false expectations. On a scale from 1 to 10, I give the DVD a 9.

I meant to say Lang is NOT trying to be Vinnie and so on

I should be getting mine soon. I think your assumption was fair; that he would break down how to get the technique. This is the most important thing, no?

I'll post my review after I've set aside a good half day to watch the beast.

they are in german tho??!! maybe hudson will release them with subtitles or something.....would be pretty pointless if they didnt.

These videos can be tough that
way - almost meant to make an
impression rather than to sat-
isfy all the needs of the view-
er. He's a great player and it's
clear that people want to know
more about him and how he got
to where he is.

How are the camera angles?

[img]cool.gif[/img]

if you are searching some technical explenations of thomas lang you should look for his first two videos. i think they will be rereleased by hudson music!

ATB

Lang dvd arrived today....

i have watched some of it and its wonderful!! beautifully presented (what else would you expect from hudson) and is JAM packed with all sorts of stuff!!!

Someone else commented that he doesnt talk about technique....this is true and a bit dissapointing. but maybe they didnt have room or time....cause the disc is BURSTING with stuff to learn, excersises to practice, showmanship stuff.....patterns, orchestrations.....its FULL of very useful stuff!!!

This could be the best and mos informative dvd release to date!

Alright, I got through the first hour of this last night.

Positives:

Sound is the best I've heard on an instructional discs from a drums standpoint. Toms and kick in particular are absolutely perfect. Sound quality itself is a new standard for these releases.

Video is equally excellent if a bit dark at points.

Camera angles are very good; they cut to his feet when anything is going on there. Also, the pratice pad sections are surprisingly enjoyable, perhaps because you can see all limbs easily without the obstruction of the kit. I also really like how they seamlessly go from exercise on pads to kit.

Exercises so far seem to be really sound. They're (so far) nothing completely new, but they're a logical combination of basic concepts. (which is very different than saying they're easy)

His foot control is pretty freakin amazing I've gotta say. I have never seen anyone play with as little effort as him yet get such a huge and powerful sound. So far he's played heel up, heel down, and heel up using only the ankle. (NO upper leg movement whatsoever)

Negatives: As others have said, no breakdown or explanation of technique. If this really is not contained elsewhere on the DVD, I think Hudson made a huge mistake. Thomas is a really good speaker and is obviously an unusually intelligent guy. Given that, it seems a complete waste to not find some time in 5 hours of material to have him discuss specific technique.

Also, like other super technique guys, I get numbed to the effects after awhile. I found at the end of the hour it pretty much turned into, "here's the next insane combination, this time standing on my head while juggling sticks with one foot and turning a lightswitch on and off with the other." I know from having heard him that he's a super creative player with a GREAT groove... maybe the later tunes will showcase this side more.

Lastly, the dreaded music. Lang is such a talented guy, he has GOT to find better music to put on these things. I'd rather hear him play against a cool bass line than a lot of the stuff here.

I still say it's a must have, but to be taken in small doses per your taste for drum porn.

Maybe when I watch the other 4 (!) hours I'll have a different opinion. (if so, I'll post accordingly)

Hudson is certainly to be commended for really owning this market and putting out some great products with in demand players. I think most of my criticisms of this DVD set are based on my own personal tastes.

Great comments, Derek. I think it's good to get this kind of feedback when there are so many DVD's to choose from.

Quote:

---

I found at the end of the hour it pretty much turned into, "here's the next insane combination, this time standing on my head while juggling sticks with one foot and turning a lightswitch on and off with the other."

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL at this one....it's really becoming par for the course with guys like Minnemann, Virgil, etc.

Thanks, Derek. I'm not surprised.

I think it's a shame that, with a
person as articulate as Lang is,
so little is conveyed, in terms
of actual technique. I think many
are watching just for that reason.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

I have seen some of Marco's video
and while he's a great player, his
articulation and speech pattern is
just... well... Let me put it this
way - He's not a good talker.

I like when a drummer can put into
words what they do and think.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 02, 2004 03:06 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

"I have seen some of Marco's video
and while he's a great player, his
articulation and speech pattern is
just... well... Let me put it this
way - He's not a good talker."

VOT deet joo zay habowdt me?!!!
Nien - zeez eez hhnot trrue...
Now hyoo jez do yourr trreeple flumadeetlez wif hyour L hahnd vile playeenk sveez trreepleetz vis hyour odder, & playeenk dobble flomadeetlez wiz hyour feetz een 7, den nine, doo hyoo hearr me - orr iyee veel haf to poot joo een dee closet forr shorr?!!! [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 02, 2004 03:27 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

C?mon guys. Thomas is Austrian and Marco is German. I would like to hear you talking German [img]wink.gif[/img]

BTW: I can?t wait watching this 5 hour -marathon. My copy hasn?t arrived yet [img]frown.gif[/img]

drumhead, I (nor anyone else) ever said Thomas' English was in question. His communication skills are GREAT and he's very intelligent. (my guess is his IQ is pretty freakin high)

The fact that he IS so articulate is why I'm being critical. They did not make sufficient use of that skill in this product IMO.

DrumHead,

You know that I am very forgiving.

Like I said, Marco is a great player. At the same time, these are pre-recorded video. There is lots of time to prepare. From what Derek says about Lang, it sounds like they took the time in his marathon. He just wish they capitalized more on that. Good instructors are better instructors, when they are articulate. However, in the Marco that I saw and heard, it sounded as though Marco was unprepared.

That's all I'm saying. It's not about the foreign language. It's about preparation and clarity.

No dis-respect to the players.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 02, 2004 04:51 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

It?s ok, you needn't justify yourselves. I haven?t seen Marco?s DVD yet, but I think I know what you mean.

I agree and thought that so many people will be buying this dvd to learn about everything, ESPecially technique......

however, the dvd is entitled "creative control" while steve smith's is called "drumset technique"......i think they went in with a seperate idea. thomas talks about control and all these excersises at his clinics and at my lesson....this is just his thing....his original system....and i think he wanted to get that accross. its about concepts and ideas.

the only thing is, its literally 4 hrs of him going thru these excersises....and they are very difficult. most people will not be able to pull a great deal from it.

however....we mustnt critisise too much.....thomas is a PHENOMIMNAL player and hudson do a FANTASTIC job of producing these dvds for us drum heads......its still a great package!!!!

I feel the same way about Steve's
first video too. He was obviously
too tired (among other things) and
you can tell that by just how long
it took for him to answer the quest-
ions asked of him. It's a present-
ation thing.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive...it's a shame that he doesn't go into that much detail with regards to technique, but as long as he mentions it even briefly, I'll be satisfied....I'm still really looking forward to the DVD...probably jam packed with good information

I am also anxiously awaiting this DVD.
I have the first of his two German videos, and he goes into technique very briefly. He basically show you what stroke he uses for loud hits and softer hits, and then he shows the traditional grip. The rest is all exercises as well. Very nice videos, I hope they will release them on Dvd but maybe most of the stuff on them is covered on this new dvd.
I was wondering, does technique come into play in the chapter called "Ergonomic mechanics on the drumkit"?
I think they really made a mistake by not having him at least share some thought on stick grip and control etc.. it doesn't have to be in depth but just a minute on how he approaches grip etc.. would have been very interesting.

With regeards to Lang being very articulate, some people just have that skill....they know how to communicate and how to explain things clearly....Mike Mangini is the same way...his clinics are a blast and he's a natural in front of a crowd...

Couple of Points:

-Without any form of hesitation from my part I would make the claim that Hudson makes the BEST products bar none. The quality in audiovisuals, sound, graphics, lighting and the way they organize everything is just superior to everything I've seen in the market. The format is very structured and thank god there are scene selections cause I couldn't bear the thought of going through 5 hours on a vhs, LOL!. My attention span is just to low for that. heh.

-I don't have any problem with Thomas' "accent". I mean has anybody heard Virgil talk?. Even if you think he sounds *funny*(no offense towards the aussies) the ideas still get "through" IMO. As for the whole technique thing, yes I would agree that sum may be dissapointed in realizing he doesn't take 15 minutes to explain his "doubles" and that many people were looking for precisely that[and up to this point Thomas has being marketed as a technique freak, so that's what we've come to expect right?].

-In my pursuit of political correctness I must point something for Derek, without trying to hijack the thread itself. IQ Tests don't mean ANYTHING. IQ is a single one-dimensional measurement taken by imperfect tests. There are many ways for someone to be a *bright* person, and not all of them are associated with high test scores. An "IQ" score, per se, is bogus. I think the only thing you can safely say these tests measure, is your ability to take the test. If you are better at intuiting what the questions is really getting at, if you have prior experience with the types of questions/scenarios on the tests, or if you have similar education/experience/background/mindset as those who originally designed the test then you will be likely to score higher. IQ does not really correlate to learning ability either. Raw intelligence is much less significant than dedication and wiullingness to learn. Determination, hard work, confidence, leadership, and social skills are all critical determinants of success that are not reflected by intelligence, and there are many subcategories of intelligence, not all of them easily tested for. [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 03, 2004 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>

Sorry Bozzio, let me put it another way.

I think Thomas Lang is fucking smart.


Better? [img]wink.gif[/img]

I've never put much stock in these things. It always saddened me in school when I received more attention and resources because I was "gifted" or "above level" or "advanced," while others whom I thought equally intelligent did not. Whopp-di-doo!!! *sighs*

Anyways moving on, just out of curiosity, is Lang's Practice Kit from Remo out yet?

Check Here

After this much coverage of the Lang DVD, I finally ran out and picked up a copy tonight. I only made it through about the first 40 minutes. Regardless of whether Thomas discusses technique or not, the video and audio speak volumes about his technique.

From what little I've seen so far, it appears that he's using at least three types of strokes on the kicks, heel down, toe down with some form of burying the beaters into the head at moderate tempos and for fast tempos he appears to just just dangle his feet and pump the pedals on the sweet spot while passing through a position where the foot is parallel to the ground.

At NAMM, I stood right in front of him while he was demoing that practice kit. Those real quick kick singles are done very controlled but in a very relax fashion. After he left, I jumped on the practice kit and was supprised to find how loose and "squishy" for a lack of a better word, those pedals were.

This is a great DVD! Nice job Thomas!!

In addition to Lang [from what I've seen on video] & Mangini, G Biss is another riot of a clinician...& Zoro throws a good clinic AW [at least the one I saw].

I was just joking around with the "Marco Germ-lish" thing...The last time he was here, Weckl talked about the DVD he did with Marco & the "running gag" about him; how he [Marco] went on about how he can't believe that a particular guy who had come to him for lessons can't play 16th note triplet groupings with the LH, double-flamadiddles alternating between two pedals on both sides, & playing groups of 5, 7, 9, 11 with the RH yet - eh, you get the drift...& Weckl responds, "Take it easy Marco, the kid was only 13 yrs old!" [laughter]...or something like that [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 03, 2004 12:45 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

Andy,

I think you have an eye for it, as I believe I do.

Some people like a lot of explaining about what's being done.

I get more out of watching someone play than actually listening to them talk about it but not everyone is like us.

I know that no one was dissing the two players in question. Derek was actually validating Lang, as was I. I think it was my fault for half-steering the exchange, when I mentioned Marco's communication lag in his video. Listen, I only saw a part of the video and I expressed how I felt about it.

Nobody is saying these guys can't play and that Hudson hasn't done a fine job. People are inquiring about the dvd set in earnest, it costing a few bucks and they don't want to be disapointed. That's all.

People look for different things in a video. For what it's worth, it's opinions like Derek's and Andy's that really shed light on a product like this.

Thanks to Derek and Andy.

No disrespect intended in what I said about Marco's verbage. It has nothing to do with accent or anything like that.

If you got that, forgive me for not being clearer. My apologies.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ March 03, 2004 03:04 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 03, 2004 07:06 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

Got to watch some of this DVD and my take is his drums sound great, he's got some great hand technique but as to his foot work he has nothing on Virgil. At times it seems as if he starts to flam himself while getting either faster on the feet or slower, he says to practice both heel up and down.
His cymbals sound like ass, sound like Camber. oh wait, they are Meinl.........no wonder. Actually SOME Meinl sound good, but his sound uck to me.
Derek is correct in that the music Lang plays to is a bad choice.

Thomas says it's out, but Remo says no and that it won't be for at least 2 months. (even that date seemed uncertain)

what du mean by his footwork is nothing on virgil??? i've never seen virgil play all rudiments with his feet heel up and down!?

Lang may have the rudiment and differnt ways of playing th feet but his control is just a bit off, to me that is IMO.
I watched the DVD and it just looks like at times he is about to lose control.

Hello!

I've something to say about what some had called as a negative of the DVD: it was not the concept to bring out another educational video, because he has already done the videos "Ultimatives Schlagzeug". The DVD shows Thomas' style of playing, what he plays and how he practise, like the Minnemann DVD (but you can learn much more from Lang than from Minnemann in this case).
I mean, you can see it as a negative, but, however, that was not the concept for this DVD.

I find Thomas is one of the most precise players i know.
Perhaps Virgil Donati can play one bpm faster with his feet, but i think Thomas is still one step more precise in general (means also with his hands).

But he is like Virgil, i think they also talk to each other much, one learns from each other (anyone noticed in the credits?). The practise-routine is almost the same (the orchestration and stuff like that), but Virgil does more progressive rock and Thomas likes also the electronic section (see his new project called Dynamo). And Thomas has much studio jobs.
There you get also an different image.


Well, the music is just typical for such guys I would say. In the first video from Ultimatives Schlagzeug the best part is when he plays a few "simple" grooves with the bassplayer (Werner Feldgrill, funny name in German). But it's also a Show-DVD, so he has to demonstrate his abilites, and that works good in such songs he plays there. I also would like it him to play more musically, especially in solo parts he could stay more in the grooves.


All in all i'm fascinated not only about his technique, but the precision of his playing.
And i would have admired some more behind the scenes stuff, and some out-takes. But, probably there aren't much. I've seen Thomas a few times live, but he never played any big nor little "mistakes". Mostly the first take is so good you needn't do another. You can get very scared of that...

So far from me.

Greetings, 00Schneider


P.S. Sorry about any language mistakes, in fact unlike Thomas my German is without accent, but his English is much more better... ;-)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 08, 2004 05:27 PM: Message edited by: 00Schneider ]</font>

Feet up or down or to the side while eating ice cream who cares as long as you can pull off what you want with control. Whatever works. And Lang more precise than Virg not IMO, they are so close in that department it is not even funny, but that is just my opinion. Virgil's control displayed on his site lessons is outrageous! Virg carries way more projection and endurance with his feet along with the amazing precision compared to anyone I have seen or heard. This is not a DIS towards Thomas at all since I said nothing negative about him at all(just a preface so I do not get something slung at me), Thomas is a Wonderful drummer for sure just my opinion concerning the precision department.

Dig

Just got my copy over the weekend and I gotta say that it is very well thought out and definitely worth getting. As everyone pointed out, it is loaded with useful and efficient exercises and for some strange reason pretty entertaining. I agree with everyone about the dvd not covering his hand technique. From what Palmerlouie said and the little he talked about regarding his hands in M.D. he definitely has a lot of great ideas and opinions and would not be out of the scope of this dvd. Other that that, it's a great piece of work that is inspiring. I almost lost it in the beginning when he said that he prefers to practice on pads or e-kit and cannot fully concentrate when he practices on a real kit because he thinks he might be disturbing someone. I thought I was the only one who had this disease! The only time I can fully concentrate when practicing on a real kit is when it's in a Wenger with about 20 other guys doing the same, other than that it's practice pads 4-life!

I have to admit that I am not a big fan of Lang's playing though he is obviously an amazing musician and educator. One thing you can say is he has ideas/concepts of his own that no one can take away from him.

I agree with you fully Digital.