I read some of the messages on the Old One board and that the Endyn's blower gives up to 24 psi w/ approx 17 psi at 3000 rpm?
17 psi? Is this for real? How come we are dying at more than 9 psi here?
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I read some of the messages on the Old One board and that the Endyn's blower gives up to 24 psi w/ approx 17 psi at 3000 rpm?
17 psi? Is this for real? How come we are dying at more than 9 psi here?
Because we don't live in fantasy land.
Greg
If you keep reading the site you'll see why. For one, the guy has been building racing engines longer than most of us have been alive. He has basically got a custom version of just about everything under the hood. He can rebuild your blower to create less heat (some folks here have had this done). Another thing is that helps tremendously in FI is an intercooler...which he of course also has.
Electronics. There is enough to control fuel, timing, boost, traction as well as the J&S and nifty cylinder pressure sensors that regulate boost and/or timing when pressures are too high (detonation). Plus the intercooler, bigger injectors and fuel pump. Let's not even get into the blower and manifolding efficiency and materials (which, BTW, is not aluminum, or steel for that matter). My engine is leaving "fantasy land" today, back to me. I guess I'll have pretend it isn't for real.
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Phil
93 Civic D16, Endyn modded JRSC, and lots of other stuff.
Look forward to hear about how your car runs Hooper.
Hope the break-in period goes swiftly. (assuming you have one)
lol, IMO I think Endyn is for real. I find it unfourtunate that they can't ever sell thier kit cause of Jackson. See Jackson has exclusive rights to the Edson blower. This in turn wont allow Endyn to ever sell the kit. I think with in the next few months Endyn will sift to a modify only company that will work on people's chargers, and make kits for them. I'm sure if you bought the exact blower thats on the Endyn R, or the civic from JR, then send it to Endyn new, I bet they will modify it to their specs, with the kit. I have talked to Larry many times, and they are pritty nice about giving people rides in their Honda's to prove themselves! Do you see JR doing this? No. Why? They dont need to. JR already has a reputation. Larry is pritty serious about this stuff. The fact he is building such amazing stuff with a crew of a small few is amazing. IMO
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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
Yeah, I also think Endyn is for real. The auto shop Intercrew in Richardson TX sends projects over to Endyn as well. If I had more time and could leave my car for 2 weeks, I wouldve gone to a used JRSC and added the Endyn $1500 upgrade. I just didnt have the time during my trip to TX. So now I have a Turbo that I cant seem to get all the bugs out of just yet.
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Black 99 GSR
GReddy Turbo w/IC
Carbon Fiber Hood
Real HID conversion lights
side markers
Altezza Tails
Slotted Rotors
AXXIS pads
KYB AGX Adjustables
Tenzo R
(coming soon)
Bronze TE-37's
On the TOO board, Larry mentioned that the SC faq they have on the site is outdated. Someone asked a question about the blower in his kit and he said something to the effect of "it would cost way to much to buy and completely rebuild eaton blowers". That says to me that he isn't using those blowers anymore.
Is their any other blower like the Eaton one?
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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
I could be wrong, but I got the feeling that larry was talking about custom blowers that they have developed.
The reason the "Eaton" is so special with our applications is that it is completely rebiult backwards (motors turn the opposite way of all others) by JR or Moss Motor sports. I also think Endyn is for real but I would really like to see one of the cars in action, or at least talk to someone who has it done. Larry is super cool and personally, if I had the cash to spare I'd send my blower off to him. Hooper is the first person on the board to get the mods done to his blower so we shall see.
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, RC 310's, Cartech FMU, Vortech regulator, H&R sports and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet.
i sure hope you don't think the video i took was faked?? hehehe
it was real, and real FAST! i think people forget that the honda and consumer part of endyn is not their main line of business, and is something that larry has been taking on in his spare time and down time. all i can say is, even if the NEVER is a blower from them (but alas, i have faith), his knowledge is worth a LOT and he DOES have some AMAZING cars there. think what you want, but i am a firm beleiver in Larry as a person and as someone who has a LOT to offer anyone who is willing to listen, question, and learn.
Vactor
93 Civic EX
[This message has been edited by SteveW (edited August 30, 2000).]
I trust Larry 100% but that video meant nothing more than a cool video with larry whizzing around. You can't tell just how fast the car is. It's not like we're talking about making a Yugo look fast, we're talking about an already fast Blown GSR into an even faster one. Hard to tell from a fuzzy video. Hell, if that guy rode in my car his face wouldn't be able to move with ths NOS on. Only way to know something is fast is to ride in it myself. Shrug. Not dissing Endyn at all, hell, they'll be doing work on my engine in the future. I just don't think a silly video is proof enough.
Actually, if I understand it correctly, Jackson Racing does not have an exclusive on the Eaton blower... Just the design of the counter-clockwise head assembly. So, if Larry were to make his own head design, he should be OK.
Just a thought...
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
Jackson does hold the patent, Eaton builds the blower for Jackson the way he wants it. Maybe the first few were rebuilds that they did, but now as far as I know they are built by Eaton. I have a buddy, not close friend more an acquaintance, that works in a different division at Eaton, I should ask for a difinitive answer.
Steve
97 sc gsr
Someone make a believer out of me. Like Silvino, that video was not much proof for me. And that is the MOST concrete evidence I have seen of Larry's work.
I'd like to see scanned dyno sheets, not grids of hp numbers put together in NotePad.
I'd like to see time slips from members here.
I'd like to know how exactly he increases the output from the blower by almost 100% without spinning it faster.
I understand Honda is not his business, but there are too many people out there with gobs of cash and a Honda to soup up for his work to remain so "unseen".
Greg
Well, I know Victor (the passenger and cameraman) and I know he drives... well let's just say spiritedly. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif Anyhow, he called me after he took his ride and said "Holy SH*T is that car fast!". Knowing him, I'm certain he's not exaggerating. Plus, they did get up to 85 or 90 pretty damn fast. Did anyone bother to time how long it took on the video?
I originally spoke with Larry about 4 years ago. After installing my JRSC, I had questions that my contact at JR could not answer, and he recommended I call Larry. At that point I just assumed this was just some guy, like me, who had one of JRs blowers and had progressed further than I. When I talked to him, he mentioned ENDYN, having been in HotRod & Circle TRack magazines, and the "soft head" article. I remembered reading it years ago. So I knew he had been around. The controversy that surrounded that article solidified his position, to me anyway.
In the history of man, people have always criticized the person who thinks outside the box. Alot of times, the person ended up being right, and hard headed people just didn't want to accept it. Remember when the world was flat? Or the sound barrier couldn't be broken? I think the same applies here. This is a person with a knowledge, and technology, that surpasses alot of people.
Larry and I had a conversation not long ago about the "proof" that people need to believe in. The smile on my face when I drive my car is all that I need. I don't go to the track, and I don't care much about dyno #'s. He said something similar about himself. As I get older, and more selfish, I find that what makes me (and my wife) happy are all that really matter.
I did promise someone here that I would get some dyno charts. And I will try to, NA and blown, once the engine is broken-in.
Please understand, this is in no way intended to be hostile. Everyone proceded to give their opinions, and this is mine.
Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith. Amen, my brothers.
Phil
you could always call up larry and ask him if he has any suggestions on how to make you a convert? hehehehe
i hear you, it is a stretch to beleive things that may be too good to be true. however, given larry's track record, just on the things he does provide, should say something... ?
Well, someone can always ask Larry if he'll let them film his car on a dyno.
Of course, maybe that could be faked.
And I'm sure Sport Compact Car would do all the tests we'd love to see in a heartbeat -- but if there are still patent and/or theft of engineering designs -- and he's not ready to market it -- then of course other interested parties would have time to try to duplicate results.
so, I guess you can speculate on why why why endlessly.
You can try to figure out if his reasons are legitimate, or just a cover for something he hasn't really done.
I tend to think if his ego depended on people believing him, he could have easily conjured up dyno sheets, and qtr mile time slips. (or one of his cohorts)
Photoshop is wonderful thing you know.
I've talked to Larry on and off for some time now and I know why we don't see all this "proof". The reason is that he doens't need to prove anything to anyone. He's doing this as a hobbiest and nothing more. There is WAY more money in 'other' programs than Honda so whoever above mentioned that, has no idea how much money difference there is. I think what he has planned is great and I'd love to see the project completed someday and show just how closed minded people are but until then, I can't argue with the folks who don't think he's all that. I don't have crap to prove either but I think it would bring me a nice smile to show the hillbilly's on LS1.com that my LS1 is more powerful all motor (before my TT project) than any of their NOS or FI project cars. ALthough I gave up the techie 4 banger I had for my near 6 litre monster, I get to have that techie stuff back working with Larry as he brings the technology into my new motor. I'm almost out of debt so we should see my engine work in the next few months. I know it's not a ACura/Honda but it'll be cool to see that Endyn can produce some wonderful things and the proof coming from one of your own http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/redface.gif). I just don't want to race anyone on the road once that Blower setup comes out :P.
i'm a believer, too. i've ridden in hooper's car. actually, i've driven it.
and to be painfully honest, i nearly shat my pants. and that was when his block was bored too big for his pistons!! (another story altogether)
but it seems to me that larry would have too much to lose, to sell snakeoil. a full line of pistons, and soon-to-be-released (how soon is soon, who knows?) line of superchargers, and a whole motherbuttload of equipment to match.
and i'll be truthful; if hooper paid $1500 for snake oil, he'd be pissed. and he'd have no reason to recommend it to others. $1500 didn't buy him, "Oh, yeah, I think I feel something" kind of horsepower. but he's not claiming to dust LS-1's either.
but that's my perception...
i agree. one of the things that impressed me about larry when i met him was that he has that ability to try things for himself, but not limit himself to exclusively what others have done. his tech articles and things he posts in respnse to questions on theoldone.com bbs are such things. and if you think about it, it makes sense (at least to me). there are enough people that use his products, work-product, and knowledge to increase the performance of their cars, as well as to gain a better understanding of how the power systems in cars work. everything he has said on the boards and to me makes sense in a physics understanding as well as in a practical understanding. seeing his cars and all of the parts and things in his house, as well as riding in his car, showed me that he is someone i feel i should listen to and take advice from. additionally, he has an interest in having the people that talk to him not only understand what he says, but also to help us come to our own conclusions. that is very different from other companies and other people. larry has people who trust him because he earns that trust with good advice, and a constant admonishion to understand these things for ourselves, and not be limited to the 'accepted norm'. as far as larry's civic, it was fast enough to convince me he is doing something right. and that's good enough for me. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by vactor (edited August 30, 2000).]
I'm not trying to be hostile here either. Also, I believe that Larry's own personal car has all those goodies and is really fast.
However, making a one-off engine setup that would cost who knows what if you don't own your own machine shop is a very different matter than modifying engines/superchargers for reasonable amounts.
There's a saying among automotive engineers that it's easy to build a great car for $100,000. What's hard is building a nice one for $20,000.
Somebody please make a believer out of me. At this point I'm not one. (And I'm just talking about the supercharger related Endyne mods, not all the other, obviously legit work he does.)
Greg
I believe that only the early prototype blowers used a m62 eaton.
The "production" units are supposed to be a custom design.
Also if you read the faq, the SC has a thermoplastic/carbon rotor. Doesn't sound like a JRSC to me.
i just checked out Endyn....they said 17lbs or 20lbs with stock internals. i am not sure if u all know that Honda blocks are pretty weak under pressure......no matter how u retard timing, no matter how good ur fuel set up is......first u rods will not handle more then 14psi of boost, ur sleeve will not handle more the 17lbs of boost....lets not even say what ur piston and rings will handle....i mean sure u can run more than 14lbs of boost in stock trims, but then rods will bent very very soon. then the sleeve cracking, warping, even melting. and about that 17lbs at 2000rpm. i hope u got race slicks even for street driving, the car would be un drivable with 17lbs of boost at 2000rpm. maybe i dont know really well, but judging from his FAQ, its pretty unbelievable. i am talking about core mechanics here, stock block will not hold under boost PERIOD. so if anyone is running 17lbs on stock block.......u should be back to ur local machine shop in a jiffy. i have seen a stock internal run 16lbs of boost (turbo), he made 350WHP, but he went back to machine shop in TWO weeks. what happened? needless to say, stock block will not hold that much boost.
HORSEPOWER comes with a price, $3500 for 400HP SC honda? i think not.
When all-out performance is necessary, cast pistons can often pose problems. While castings are an economic way of making OE style pistons, meeting the rigors of continuous high performance was never a design requirement for these stock components.
this is what Endyn said about pistons. pls dont tell me that 17lbs or 24lbs boost is not all out preformance.
then he talks about stock rods not being good enough for high preformance.
AGAIN, with 17lbs to 24lbs of boost would be high performance. how bout to u guys?
in end, judging from the words that he used to describe Stock piston/rods. they are pretty much like shiet when it comes to high preformance.
this guys is simply a joke..... he basically slapped himself when he tries to sell piston and rods. on one hand "yeah sure 24lbs of boost no problem" then on other hand "piston and rods from OE is not meant for high preformance"
HE IS A JOKE
Yeah, sure 17lbs or 24lbs sounds like "high performance" but it's all in the driving. You have to regulate your right foot more with the stock internals...i.e. no long sustained high load runs. In the SC faq he says that high speed or constant high load is not recommended....heat kills stock internals not boost.
Phil - Let me know when I can swing by over there and Check out your ride! I wouldn't mind making the trip over there to see it! Let me know after you break it in to check it out!
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It take a Nation of Millions to hold Us Back!!!
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escudoanim2.gif
[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited September 08, 2000).]
The ENDYN engine is in and running. However, I've only tallied up about 90 miles since it's installation on Wed night. So, it may be a little while before it's ready. Also, I plan on doing some dyno runs with the engine in NA form before re-installing the blower. After the huffer is back on, it's back to the dyno (for #'s, not tuning). Then, anybody is free to come by for a ride...
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Phil
93 Civic D16, Endyn modded JRSC, and lots of other stuff.
How about for a race!!!
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It take a Nation of Millions to hold Us Back!!!
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escudoanim2.gif
[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited September 08, 2000).]
We'll just have to see, won't we?
Yeah we will! I am installing that BTM today thanks to Jim. Hope fully I can get it done byt tomorrow since this rain is REALLY messing with the install! Let me know when you broken your car in and i'll be HAPPY to see how that engine works out in battle!
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It take a Nation of Millions to hold Us Back!!!
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escuani.gif
[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited September 09, 2000).]
Amen to the smaller GIF in your sig!
Thanks
Greg
Hahahaha! Well Talking to Jim he requested one thing from me and it was this! I didn't want to upset one of the older forum members! Thanks again Jim! I am going to probably finish the install tomorrow since there is less chance for rain!
You're welcome too Greg!
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It take a Nation of Millions to hold Us Back!!!
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escuani.gif
[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited September 09, 2000).]
Inside joke... I complained to Jay about the SIZE of his little graphic in his signature... and how much bandwidth it takes up.
He said that he would make it smaller... and he did.
Thanks Jay... from all of us here on FI.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
MouhadIb, Jim said your name is Jay. Jay from NO? If so, I had no idea it was you. How's your car running? Did you find that damn CE error code?
Phil - Yeah that is ME! The guy that you installed that SC on the 98 GSR from the Big Easy. That is why I was asking you if you wanted to race when your car was broken in!?!
Yeah I tool the car to the dealership and the IAC valve is bad! It gave them the same code that it gave me (14). I am getting one from this guy in FL that is practically brand new. I got it for $35 since the dealership wanted $155 for it! Shaw right! Hey did you get a chance to read my post about the MSD? Take a look @ it and give me some feedback.
TTYL and keep me informed when you wanna test your car?!!
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It take a Nation of Millions to hold Us Back!!!
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escuani.gif
[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited September 11, 2000).]
I'm not going to waste a lot of time trying to convince you of anything. Go over to his site and actually read it...don't just glance at some numbers.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ringer:
Yeah, sure 17lbs or 24lbs sounds like "high performance" but it's all in the driving. You have to regulate your right foot more with the stock internals...i.e. no long sustained high load runs. In the SC faq he says that high speed or constant high load is not recommended....heat kills stock internals not boost.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
17 - 24lbs is high preformance no matter how u put it. and if u say that if u dont step on it, then its a different story. hmm, ok, get a ferrari and never get past 4000rmp and now its no long high preformance car? btw i am not flaming u in any way. but do u really think anyone can make a stock honda with 24lbs of boost? in reality, we do live in a reality world. sure u can bend the rules a little, but 24lbs?? and if u cant sustain 24lbs of boost or even 17lbs of boost. then why make a car with that much boost if it can not sustain boost?
btw boost = heat anyways. so when u say heat kills engine, its th same is boost kills engine. without boost, u will not have that kind of heat. anyhow, he did say 310 injectors right? with 310cc injectors, during his dyno run, he would have leaned out like all hell broke lose. 310cc is only rated at about 280hp? give or take a little. and lets talk about boost alone. 310 injector will just not be enough fuel to get upto 400hp. no way in hell. stock is 240cc. from 240cc to 310cc, is about a 30% jump in fuel.....but can handle a 300% horse power increase?? enough said, if anyone have been playing around with boost should know how full of it his crab about 24lbs of boost is.
i have no doubt that maybe he can tweak the SC a little, thats doable, but 24lbs of boost with stock internals just wont cut it