any ideas how much money Vinnie would make when he played with Sting ?
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any ideas how much money Vinnie would make when he played with Sting ?
I heard ten grand a night at one point. Keep in mind, however, that that bit of info could very well be silly conjecture passed on from person to person.
Don't believe it.
hmmm.. These numbers sound huge.
Here are the only ones I know for a fact.
Backstreet Boys offered one of the biggest names in percussion 6000 a week to tour about 18 months ago. He turned it down as it was, "too little."
Novak said (I think in MD) that the largest number he'd heard of anyone getting with Chick was 5000 per week. (figuring Chick is no Janet AFA money goes.)
$50,000 a night; I'd say no way to that number. I've never even heard rumours of any sideman getting in excess of 20k per week. (and I heard that once) I'd bet most pop acts pay sub 10k per week at most with very very few exceptions. MD's might break that number.
I bet Randy knows the answer.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 25, 2004 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Derek DeFields ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The range Derek posted is right on target. No sideman makes 50K a show. Most pop acts pay WAY less, unless the sideman's name adds to the marquee value of the act.Quote:
Originally posted by Derek DeFields:
hmmm.. These numbers sound huge.
I'd bet most pop acts pay sub 10k per week at most with very very few exceptions. MD's might break that number.
Mr. A.
Back when I worked for Yamaha... (mid 90s) the number that was usually used as a good "ball park" for salary at that time for a top pop gig (Madonna, Janet Jackson, etc.) was $10,000 a week.
In my opinion, the earlier post stating this salary range for the Sting gig is probably accurate.
Concerning Vinnie specifically, you have to keep in mind that someone would have to offer him enough money to leave behind the lucrative studio situation he has going for whatever time frame you are talking about...
V, Ed, DDF, A, & yam are the more correct ballpark.
Sometmes it is even less.
IMO, that needs to change, as all great frontmen/women are supported & helped to be great by often even greater supporting players.
Frontpeeps often receive millions, while the supportist's pales in comparison. I've seen plenty of frontpeeps with their own expensive tour buses, while the 7 pc band PLUS road crew are "crammed" onto only 1 other bus of their own...trying to squeeze the $ somewhere...& w gas prices the way they are, & sometimes flights, these things unfortunately have to be considered... [img]eek.gif[/img]
Now, I DO realize it's their "show" & there are lofty overheads, & many folks to pay in their "camps" AW...attorneys, agents, managers, bandleaders, road/tour managers, roadies, techs, etc etc...
A sum upwards of $10,000 is often for the more "famous" or really well known & trusted sidemen/women in the industry...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 25, 2004 03:32 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
The Sting documentary Bring on the Night has a great line by Miles Copeland.
Referring to negotiations with the sidemen in the band states, "who's going to cancel their ticket if Sting doesn't show up...? everyone! how many cancellations are you going to get if someone else doesn't make it. NOT ONE!"
Whether you agree or not, that's the reality.
I'll find out for sure tonight. I may be a litte off.
I remember that line, D.
Very True, that.
But those exorbitant figures for sidemen are highly exaggerated...that's just not the real world...unless it's a sit like, say for instance, a Garth Brooks scenario, who word has it was very good to his sidepeople...this depends on the individual & the level of financial & success-freedom-headway power that they have...reportedly Brooks set each sideman up with about a mil each when he retired...reportedly. But also rem, he was a "bigger than sliced bread" country artist for a good while...
50,000 a night for a sideman? NO way. Never. The frontperson, on a road date, definitely, depending upon the charts & level & recent time-frame of success.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 25, 2004 03:41 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Yes, 10 grand a week is what I heard as well regarding the Sting gig. I even heard it paid that much when Omar was playing.
Cheers
I heard Gadd was getting 50 k a show with Clapton on his latest tour... I wouldn't doubt it either considering Clapton's and Gadd's fame...
oh wow, I've never seen so many misinformed drummers before! HAHA!
The moderater is on the mark. And in my case not only do I know the drummers personally, I myself was in that scene several years ago.
Here are some facts that come from the mouths of tour managers and musicians on today's biggest gigs.
No drummer makes 50g's a night. The artists themselves don't even make that.
The very large pop acts like Britney and Janet play less than 5g's a week. Those type of pop acts have a tremendous overhead. My friend Lill John was making btw 2 and 3g's per week playing drums with Janet.
Kieth and Vinnie both on Sting's gig make and have made between 5-7g's a week. Artists are not in the drum scene and don't rate players like drummers do. As much as we all love Vinnie, Sting has been quoted as saying the Keith is the best drummer that's ever held the chair. Vinnie would not be earning more on Stings gig than Manu, Omar or Keith. Sting is playing 1500-2000 seaters theaters in the USA. There's no way he can pay musicians that much unless he's dipping into his fortune. And he's not.
Gadd was making 10g's with Clapton and Jim Keltner had been known to charge that much and even more.
Reality check: If you think that these names players are doing sessions like crazy and don't consider being on the road for less than a certain amount; think again. This is the 21st century, and the age of the drum loop and amazing feeling programmed tracks. Believe me, they jump at touring gigs. Gigs that pay a lot less than you think. Faith Hill for example has an all star band. She's not doing as well as she did in the 90s, there's no way those guys are earning high figures. I'd say 5g's top. 8 for Dan Huff the M.D.
Michael Baker with Whitney Houston was pulling in 3g's a week.
Thems the facts folks. :-)
I wouldn't complain about 3-7g a week.
SDK-
Sting is playing 1500-2000 seaters theaters in the USA. There's no way he can pay musicians that much unless he's dipping into his fortune. And he's not.
Gadd was making 10g's with Clapton and Jim Keltner had been known to charge that much and even more.
Reality check: If you think that these names players are doing sessions like crazy and don't consider being on the road for less than a certain amount; think again. This is the 21st century, and the age of the drum loop and amazing feeling programmed tracks. Believe me, they jump at touring gigs
QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
I am not sure if this was a typo but Sting is not playing 1500-2000 seat venues. I am going to see him in Atlanta at the Phillips Arena which holds almost 20,000 people. Again I don't know if it was a typo with one less zero there. Also, from what I understand, Vinnie only did the first few promo slots for sting's Sacred Love because he did not want to go on another extensive 1 1/2-2year run away from home.[
I thought I heard from a reliable source that Vinnie was making about 20K a week(as did Dominic Miller and David Sancious.....even Branford) with Sting. I had heard that Gadd was making the same money with Paul Simon. I read that Vinnie was the first guy that Sting wanted for this current tour but he turned it down because he didn't want to be gone for 18 months again, which Vinnie had said that he had some serious mental adjustments to make when he came home from the last tour he did(which was 18 months long) with Sting.
I can't imagine that Manu could demand any where the amount Vinnie can. Manu isn't as in-demand as someone like Vinnie. I'm not saying this because I think he's better or not.......people want Vinnie more!!
The real fact is......we are ALL speculating on what these guys are making!!!!
I even heard that Vinnie and Sting had a incident where Vinnie had punched Sting in the face. Is this true?? Who knows for sure??
Yes, the Stinger plays both the huge arenas AND a few occasional smaller venues...but you're still gonna pay some $ for the tix either way...maybe even especially in the smaller, intimate, & more ritzy ones... [img]wink.gif[/img]
Thanks, SDK, for the "closest" head's up. [img]wink.gif[/img]
If you're a drummer & making huge bucks a night...your name might be something like "Tommy Lee"...back in the 80's. You DEF have to be a bonafide band member & not a sideman. Maybe with writing credits, & other business agreements relating to the band & its songs, too. Like Neil...he has to be one of the most successful drummers alive, financially, lucratively, & successfully speaking...WAY more than VC, VD, or DW. [img]eek.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 26, 2004 12:28 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
I heard that Keith Carlock, the drummer for sting presently, makes 10 grand a week. So you can imagine what Vinnie made back then.
-Ed
I know a person that was drumming for Janet Jackson and he was getting $50,000 a show I think. He was also band leader.
Hi, no that wasn't a typo, when Sting first began the tour support for hi last album with Carlock they were playing venues like the Beacon Theater in NYC, no bigger. Now I guess he's playing larger venues. I know for a fact that no one was making 20g's weekly. I know Vince personally and what you said about Manu is WACKED! Manu plays on just as many albums as Vince in Europe and come on, he's Peter Gabriels drummer. Vince wouldn't have even played with Sting if Manu didn't have prior commitments with Gabriel. Remember, that was Manu's gig. Vince came in later. Regardless, this is silly. Sting's guarentee for for one night show can't be more than $200,000, MEANING the promoter pays 200g's to Sting to play the gig. After that, the promoter pays his people and makes some profit. It cost's 15g's to rent a place that seats thousands. Think about this, one regular tour bus costs 15g's a week to rent with a driver. Sting has 3 of these. He also travels in his own lear jet while the band and crew take the buses. Add, sound, lights staging etc....Out of the 200g's, Sting has to pay all of these people. If every musician in the band 20g's a week at 4/5 shows a week, well you do the math. Sting wouldn't make any money. Do you think the drummer or guitarist are making 20g's a week? That's just bad math. It's not possible. Where's the $$ coming from?? If you think logically for a sec you'll see that this is purely impossible. Clapton, yeah, he has a much higher guarantee, he's a legend, and he doesn't tour yearly. Sting's last album hasn't even sold a million copies yet.
No I know nothing about this really but I do know (based on a Bozzio interview) that Frank Z for example payed his musicians union wage....would this not be the case here w/ maybe some perks thrown in??
I'd say that it's well worth it for Neil to still keep on playing.
If they sell 10,000, even 7,000, $45 tickets that's major money, plus the merch and maybe a cut of beer sales.
He's gotta be pulling in 30,000 a night, big nights at big cities.
They are pulling big crowds this time out. They are one of the few bands that spend money on the videos and lighting design. But yet they play a core set of tunes that they are trying to get every last dollar out of like Roll the Frickin Bones.
SDK......Actually Manu isn't Pater Gabriel's drummer......
Check out Peter's website.
Manu plays on as many records as Vinnie? I didn't know that.....I didn't know that Europe's market for producing albums is as big as the America's. I thought there was more artists, record labels, and recording studio's here in the states.
thanx for letting us know!
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 26, 2004 04:02 PM: Message edited by: ebbz ]</font>
Hi there SDK,
Welcome to the board. Glad to see you are hanging with the greats, you must be so chuffed doing those big tours.
Just to shed some light on the subject from my personal experiences. Brian Fraiser Moore is getting double your estimated $2000-3000 per week with Janet and Christina. I know that Britney Spears Drummer is happy with his salary, that's partly because he's the MD and partly because you forget the amount of merchendising that goes on at pop gigs.
C'mon man, $30 for a three paged programme? THATS where it comes from!!!! We have a programme in the UK called "Liquid Assets" all about how much money celebs rake in per year. Madonna's last tour (only 35 dates mind you) earned her a personal fortune of $68,000,000!!! This is on all the time on BBC3 and I urge you to check it out!!!
Artists that are signed to teeny-bopper labels like Britney and Christina are not making nearly as much as Madonna, Sting and Clapton. But be under no illusion the big guys are raking it in...
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ August 26, 2004 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Groovemeister ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2004 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Groovemeister ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I beg to differ on this statement. Britney and Christina are making HUGE amounts of $, comparable to Sting [maybe even more] & prob more than Clapton. Clapton is selling by his name over the years, he does not have any singles out on the charts as Top 10's/20's/40's & the like...Brit & Xtina are always recently on the charts...Quote:
Artists that are signed to teeny-bopper labels like Britney and Christina are not making nearly as much as Madonna, Sting and Clapton.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow, the guys w Sting are lucky.Quote:
Think about this, one regular tour bus costs 15g's a week to rent with a driver. Sting has 3 of these. He also travels in his own lear jet while the band and crew take the buses.
I know a guy who plays w a big name artist who's big oin the charts right now, & he has to share a bus w the 6-pc band AWA the ROAD CREW [& driver]. That's about 15-16 cats on ONE f'n bus...
But he endures it because the $, perks, endorsements, & publicity/notoriety are good. Last I'd heard from him about it [a yr & 1/2 ago or so], he was set up for x amt of dollars per show day [upwards of $550/600, including perdiem]...
Sounds like ole Gordon might be a cool guy, & be giving the band AWA the road crew each their OWN bus[?] [which IS costly].
I've heard it 2 ways - that the record company either provides the bus/driver/gas, or there are other arrangements between the company & the artist, or that the artists themselves provide the buses...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 26, 2004 04:03 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Hey Fuse my man!
Britney and Christina are not making NEARLY AS MUCH as Madonna, Sting and Clapton. Although they haven't had hit songs for years, the oldies are signed to far more lucrative deals with their labels.
Britney and the like only make as much money as they do (because they can't demand good contracts from record companies) because they sell so many units!!! The actual percentage they see of the takings is much smaller than the likes of the big guys like Clapton and Madonna.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 26, 2004 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Groovemeister ]</font>
Hi Groovis! [img]wink.gif[/img]
OKAY, m' man, perhaps, perhaps... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
ebbz, a little research will show that the music industry in Europe, just the economy in general is kicking our asses here in the states. I would say that 3 out 10 albums here in the states use live drums. Why? Because people here don't understand groove and can't feel the difference, and have no musical culture. In Europe, African music is huge, Greek/Middle Eastern music, jazz, pop. most of the albums are done using live musicians. Why do think all the greats from our country have to tour Europe just to survive?
And FYI Manu was Peter's drummer for years and would still be if he wanted to be on the road. He's on the last CD along with Gadd. It's not like I'm huge Manu fan, I just know what Sting and Peter have said about him in interviews. They really love him.
SDK is right, any internationally reknown musician in Europe will be recording just as much if not more than top guys here. The scene here is dead. Most of the CDs that are released in this country on major labels are a musical disgrace. The best music in the world was made and created here, and now, it's made elsewhere just like every other market. More labels here?? More like 3 major labels own everything. Europe has way more.
Kenny Aronoff is forced to go out with artists like Michelle Branch making at most 3,000 weekly. He would have never done that in the 80s.
Touche. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
Oh and Fuse,
Just a heads up, the record companies don't provide anything really. ANYTHING they provide, is payed for by future artist royalties. The labels don't give anything away. When you see an artists face in an ad for their CD, that's money out of their pockets. Against record sales. And what you said about the pop artists is way off. They sell more albums yes. BUT..Think for a sec. Who makes money from that? Not them. First of all, the real money winners on record sales are the writers. That's why Sting's a billionaire. Those pop stars like Britney and Justine, they don't write their own material. They only make a mechanical royalty of 20-30cents per CD sold AFTER and only AFTER their debt with the label is payed back. And we're talking about a 1.5 million dollar loan. As I said earlier, the labels don't give anything up. It all comes out of the advance and record sales.
When they tour, these pop acts have 10 times the overhead that the other artists like Clapton have. Yet they charge the same money and play to same amount of people. Think about it.
it's quite simple really. Artists that don't have crazy staging and insane pyro , or dancers etc.. and who write and perform their own material, make the most money and can afford to pay more. Sting, Sheryl Crow, Clapton, Dave Mathews etc...
Who wants to see Christina, Justine, Jessica or Brittney with a live band on a regular stage with some cool lighting? NO ONE!! They have to put on a show because those gigs are bordering on a Vegas review. They're not great musicians so they have to entertain.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes...true, that, for sure.Quote:
First of all, the real money winners on record sales are the writers
I was just stating however, from the POV that those particular artists are the "kiddie" or "bubble-gum" artists...which often sell as much or more than the others. And they make the maj of their profs on their touring. But you are indeed right about writers. I failed to mention that.
& you are right, the record co's make their $ too. They dont get up off any of that sack unless it darn sure is known to be coming back to them first, & "tenfold" at that.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 26, 2004 05:41 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Flarobstix......
"Who wants to see Christina, Justine, Jessica or Brittney with a live band on a regular stage with some cool lighting? NO ONE!! They have to put on a show because those gigs are bordering on a Vegas review. They're not great musicians so they have to entertain."
I thought the musicians that play with them kick ass.
Being a great musician has nothing to do with the fact that they would still have to entertain. It's the style of music. Teenagers don't care if they have the ability to play a billion notes over a billion chord changes.
WOW........thats cool you know so much!
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 26, 2004 08:51 PM: Message edited by: ebbz ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think flarob meant the frontpersons themselves [Brit, Xtina] rather than their indy musicians...&, as many of their hits are sensational, pop-culture fluff rather than musically inspired...mostly all "style," & very little substance...glitz & superficial eye-candy designed for youngsters who buy into it [& maybe not-so-young-sters - WTH's THEIR excuse, HAH?! ;c)]. BUT...Quote:
"Who wants to see Christina, Justine, Jessica or Brittney with a live band on a regular stage with some cool lighting? NO ONE!! They have to put on a show because those gigs are bordering on a Vegas review. They're not great musicians so they have to entertain."
"Who wants to see Christina, Justine, Jessica or Brittney with a live band on a regular stage with some cool lighting?"...
...[I think you mean in a regular, smaller stage w moderate lightshow, as do bands where it's all about the music, as opposed to these pop stars huge budget productions & arenas?]
...But the answer:
- MILLIONS of teenies, pre-teenies, & early-to-mid 20 yr olds...who are one of the largest demographics that purchase CD's [img]redface.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 27, 2004 03:01 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
I dont know about how much he might make on Salary, but at one time I heard he made 5,000 for a day of recording in the studio... who knows if thats right or not though...
Here's something interesting that I know for a fact, (but out of respect I won't mention the drummers name). This drummer is currently on retainer to play with a big name artist at $5000 per week(the artist is not touring right now and does not have an album out recently so you probably won't figure out the artist)That's $5000 a week whether or not he's touring. Nothing new, I know, but it's astounding considering how much in demand this guy is for live and studio work- so he's making all that bread plus the weekly retainer. No wonder this guys always smiling. (Oops- I hope I didn't give it away...)
So SDK- ..I'd be interested to know the contractual details for a big gig like this. Since you're in the know, maybe you can shed some light...
Hmmm...Dom Famularo is always smiling...
Hi Guys,
I think that SDk is right for almost everything.
And Manu was more paid that Vinnie of course.
Manu is one of the most expansive drummer to hire.
So you know "Little" John, I like his work with Rachell Ferrell, he's a great drummer.
He's still in Atlanta ?
Peace.
Is Little John the same cat that is referenced frequently / parodied / makes appearances on Comedy Central's [Dave] Chappelle Show?! [img]eek.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 27, 2004 03:02 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
All I can say is don't believe everything you hear. I can believe a retainer, but not at 5g's though and only if it's a super established star like Streisand, who was playing JR 10g's a week. I remember doing some gigs like that where the I heard some great figures, and then I'd do the gig or sub, and make much less. When I inquire they's say what?? He's not making THAT... So trust me. I also auditioned for the Britney gig last year. Ricky Minor was the M.D. and the bassist. The current drummer is Teddy Campell. He makes 3500 a week. Most of what he plays is pre-recorded and his drums barely make any sound. Thems the facts.
I don't know everything, I was just somewhat on the scene until I required some real financial consistancy.
Oh, and Vince DOES in fact charge 5g's A TRACK in the studio when he's working on a major label and budget recording. He very often will make almost a years salary in a couple of days although I have never seen Vinnie's name on a whole pop record. Sting was ;ast one I can remember if you want to call him pop. Again, I've also heard of Vince recording for $100 a track when there's hardly a budget and the music is great. He even plays weddings in LA from time to time. One time, he even recorded for free on Melissa Ferricks CD simply because he dug her and happened to be in Studio A when she was in B at Ocean Way.
Apparently, not only is VC one of the greatest drummers, but a wise & understanding one AW... [img]wink.gif[/img]