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What's the reason why some of today's young greats like Keith Carlock and Steve Hass tilt their snare drums foward. Is this traditonal grip related? Both of those players coincidently have sick left hands. I know Buddy, papa jo and many others have done that, but the drummers mentioned above are not really jazz drummers. Anyone have a clue?
Yes, it is related to traditional grip, where the left-hand stick position at rest points downward. That's the short and simple answer; there are, of course, many arguments and points of view regarding snare drum positioning, often opposing but not "wrong". It's simply a matter of what each drummer is comfortable with.
Take a close look at the way Dave Weckl and most notably Steve Smith position their snare drums now as opposed to, say, 10 years ago. Steve Smith's snare nowadays is tilted "forward" to a pretty good degree! It's simply how he feels best serves his physical playing style. Then look at Carter Beauford's snare position. It's flat, and REALLY low! Almost below his knees, I think (and he sits low to begin with).
As you know, probably the one thing that varies the MOST (arguable, I know) from drummer to drummer is the position of their snare drum, so there's certainly no hard and fast rule for where to put it; it's just a matter of what works best for each drummer. And, as I said with the aforementioned Weckl and Smith, over time that can and will change, even drastically! Just take a look at Smith's "Part One/Two" videos and then his recent DVD, and you'll see the evolution. I know that for me I'm constantly moving my snare drum up, down, more angled, flatter, etc. to come up with the "best" placing.
Hope I made some sense.
I usually play matched, and keep my snare a little above my knees and angle up near my high tom just a little. That allows my to play rimshots only when I intend them and not inadvertenly. When I play trad the position still works pretty well. If I played traditional all the time I'd probably raise my snare another 1/2 inch. I would not follow Gruber's advice and tilt towards the tom.
Seat height is a good point too! I do have to adjust me seat since it seems to unscrew itself and unnoticeably sink over time. I played last night and it had very gradually rotated to the bottom position which made me feel like I was a kid playing a grownup's drums.
Snare position makes a big impact on your drumming and technique. Good players who play with very low snares often rotate their wrists to a French grip to accomodate their snare height. This position often forces them to develop finger technique.
personally, I can't see how playing traditional grip with your snare angled toward you is a logical technique. When I saw HASS at The Blue Note, his left arm was a perfect L. Forearms parallel to the ground. Which enabled him to easily get a fat rimshot and also control the level of the rimshot. Half stick, quarter, etc....If the snare is too low or angled towards you, your wrist would have to bend unnaturally in order to get a rimshot at all. RIGHT? Anyone have thoughts on this?
I know that for me I'm constantly moving my snare drum up, down, more angled, flatter, etc. to come up with the "best" placing.
Ditto!
I just saw a great Tony Williams video last night--not sure the date, maybe late 80's--and kept focusing on his seat position, posture, and the fact he switched from trad to matched a lot within the same song, and on every song. His snare was slightly angled forward (not as much as Smith). He looked perfectly fit behind his kit which would be awkward for me. Great show! I think a young Smitty Smith was at one of the front tables looking on in joy!
Yes, that's on going battle for me as well. To find the right angle so I don't work too hard to get that solid rim shot backbeat.
BTW, SDK, Hass now tilts his snare down and to the right. When asked him about this, he said it was because his right hand was suffering from the other angle although his left hand felt great. I guess that's the best of both worlds. Also remember the seat height is a factor as well.
Anyone else dealing with this snare positioning insanity?
I play traditional grip and my snare drum is pretty high and tilted to the right. I do this because it is easier to me to play multiple/fast rimshots with my left hand. I couldn't do this if the snare drum was tilted toward but I do know some people who can! Vinnie is a good example...
Steve Gadd is another traditional-gripper who tilts his snare towards himself. Both he and Vinnie sit low too, which also factors in to how the snare is angled. Keith Carlock and Steve Smith sit pretty high, and by angling the snare away from them it makes it easier to hit the rimshots...
I play traditional grip and I have my snare tilted towards me. I rimshot on every backbeat and I don't find that it's uncomfortable. Whatever works for you, there's no best way.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 09, 2004 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Daniel LeClaire ]</font>
mine is tilting towards me slightly to the right. traditional grip.
I tilt my snare toward me slightly.
I've also found that the type of drum makes a difference.
All my Gretsch snares have die-cast hoops that are higher from the head, therefore i have to tilt them more towards me to avoid hitting the rim and missing a backbeat (really annoying).......
Hoop height is a good point. You might have to tilt more or lowere the drum to accomodate Ayotte's high wood hoops too.
Just wanted to post an update here:
In my previous post I stated that I had my snare tilted towards me. Today I was watching my grip, as I was practicing, and noticed that my left hand's palm was facing straight up. I decided to tilt the snare towards my right and still slightly towards me. So far I've found this to be slightly more comfortable for my left hand.
Regarding seat height:
I raised my seat so that my knees are parallel with my waist when I play. My knees were higher than my waist. Since raising my seat I have noticed better balance when playing heel up. I have also noticed less fatigue overall, probably because I don't have to reach as much.
I just wanted to encourage everyone to keep experimenting with their drums. Sometimes it's frustrating and nothing feels right, but keep at it and you'll find something comfortable eventually.
great topic indeed.
IMO,seat height,snare angle etc...are very important points that they don't teach you in school as far as i know.focus is on everything else and i think it's a shame.
anyways,snare angle has been a major issue to me 'even more since i recently switched to traditionnal grip.i'm experiencing new position everyday since playing this way is kind of new to me.
i'm having a hard time finding the right snare angle.i've tried to tilt it to the right(i'm right handed) but then it makes it hard to play when i switch back to matched in a middle of a song.
by the way,should your palm be facing up or should my hand be like..let's say in a thumb-up kind of position?
another issue is rim height and rimshot backbeat.
having been in a studio situation lately,i've noticed that the snare sound would be better if i didn't hit the rim and play a full stroke on the head.it's kind of funny 'cos lots of drummers play rimshot backbeats and iwas used to do the same.
but by just hitting the head i would get a fatter and fuller sound !!??
hey,you learn evryday!!
so i wanted to know guys if you experienced the same thing and if you all play rimshot backbeats in any situation?
i assume you wouldn't necessarily do in a jazz situation.
any help and input welcome.
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I play matched, and mine is pretty much level with the top of the snare a couple of inches above knee height. I sit quite high too.
Check out Krupa's snare position on this this great video
Traditional grip was devised as a way to accommodate the way a marching drum hangs from a sling, angling down and to the right. Modern marching slings have rendered the grip unnecessary, although many adhere to it, for a variety of reasons.
To me an angle like Steve Smith or Keith Carlock's setup makes a lot of sense if you use trad grip. I've been puzzled at why guys like Vinnie or Gadd don't do that, but as has been pointed out, they both sit low.
Mr. A.