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Hi Again!
You guys might like this... its a 1 take recording using my acoustic and electronic setup. (similar to Akira Jimbo stuff except I'm using the roland td6 module..)
http://www.dpmkc.org/johnvideos/Dreaming.wma
I know the quality is a bit low and I will change that sometime in the future, but for now I figure this will do..
Any Ideas or thoughts for future stuff would be greatly appriciated
Thanks
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I liked that.Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyHendrix:
... a 1 take recording using my acoustic and electronic setup.
What did you do, program the song onto one or more pads and increment through it, or just let it play?
the basics of the track, like the Bass line thing, is prearranged and done as a 4 or 8 bar loop (I Forget), then the melody lines are all played live. (A programmed line before hand though)
Anymore Q.'s
Thanks
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nice work.Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyHendrix:
Hey, guys.. here's like a 55sec clip I made.
My main observation would be that it's a little "stiff" and "forced". Shuffles are all about feel, and I think the thing you're most missing is a lightness of touch.
For example, watch your left hand. It could be the video quality and lighting, but it looks like you almost "bury" the left stick in the snare head for a beat, and only come off and ghost after a little while. You should be able to come off and ghost the middle partial on the third triplet immediately after the backbeat on the first partial. Have a look at Jeff Porcaro's "Rosanna" video, for example.
(I'm not claiming I can do it consistently either, mind, so I'm speaking from observation rather than a personal capability).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nice work.Quote:
Originally posted by moosetication:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JohnnyHendrix:
Hey, guys.. here's like a 55sec clip I made.
You should be able to come off and ghost the middle partial on the third triplet immediately after the backbeat on the first partial. Have a look at Jeff Porcaro's "Rosanna" video, for example.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Id like to add to this. First off: Shuffles are very tough and only perfected by few. Chambers comes to mind - he gives it such an effortless feel. Its very hard to achieve this, especially as you increase speed.
Generally speaking I think the vid is great. Some nice fills and the shuffle is excellent too. I was also going to point out what is mentioned above. There needs to be a ghost note after the backbeat. This is essential to keep that fluid sound to the shuffle - otherwise there is a spot of emptiness.
Now I am not sure if you play it. I played the video really loud and did my best to spot the ghost note, but I think its not there. I have trouble playing it once I play at a higher bpm with my metronome. Whats important here is that you stop the stick from jumping back up after the backbeat and just tap that ghost note in there. Make sure its very soft and doesnt sound like two loud accents. All ghosts must be at the same level! Now if you're doing this and I didnt see or hear it on the video I hope this helps others anyway [img]smile.gif[/img]
EDIT: If you havent already looked at it:
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/d...berspearl.html
This is Dennis Chambers playing a shuffle. Turn up the volume and youll hear the ghost note I am referring to. He really plays this very well.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 30, 2004 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]</font>
Jeff Porcaro explains the Rosanna half-time shuffle here:
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffporcaro.html
He makes it so effortless.
Yeah. Another great video demonstrating the tricky shuffle!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nice. Did you program it "longhand" or hook it up to a keyboard (or download a MIDI file)?Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyHendrix:
the basics of the track, like the Bass line thing, is prearranged and done as a 4 or 8 bar loop (I Forget), then the melody lines are all played live. (A programmed line before hand though)
I've had my e-drums for 18 months and not done anything like this. You may just have shamed me into it.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 30, 2004 06:11 PM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>
oh my, chambers is not a good example of a great shuffle drummer (especially on that clip!). can someone say jeff porcaro?
Hey, guys.. here's like a 55sec clip I made. http://www.dpmkc.org/johnvideos/John_shuffle.wmv
I know its not perfect, but thought you might still be interested in it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess we have different definitions of fluid. When I say "fluid" I consider the following:Quote:
Originally posted by shedder:
that shuffle groove is everything but fluid. he plays with no dynamics and the swung notes sound to machine like.
-Equally spaced strokes.
-In the case of a shuffle, the consistency of volume on the hi-hat, backbeat and ghost notes.
-How well the drummer keeps the pace when including fills.
Now this is all done close to perfection in my ears. Of course we can argue about taste...I understand what you mean when you say machine like. But in this case, I admire it. He could just keep going all night and any band would have a solid time keeper to lean on!
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 01, 2004 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]</font>
Hey, Johnny!
You did fine on your video.
These half-time shuffles are it! Aren't they?
I think they are very important to work on and
all the time, placing strokes all over the pat-
tern, especially on the kick.
I also agree that it is important to control
the dynamic level of the pattern, creating as
much contrast as possible. The best way to do
this is to do it SLOWER.
I am sure you will sound great doing it. Give
it a try, knocking your tempo down to 120-130.
Really relax and key your strokes very close to
the drum. I am anxious to see it!
Play on, man!!
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Nice playing Johnny, cheers for sharing the vid. I have to agree with moosetication as far as it feeling a bit forced. Remember the expression "we sound how we look?" well you're making it looking bloody hard!!
My only comment would be to relax, lighten up and enjoy it. Your right hand seemed a bit stiff and dynamically it was louder than the other voices. It sounds great to me, I would just relax on it. Not only will this improve the sound and feel of the rhythm. but it will save you getting RSI or tendonitis if you carry on playing that way.
For a great example of a phenominal shuffle feel that it so light and bouncy, check out Mel Lewis on The Groove Merchant. Also Buddy could shuffle his arse off with the intensity of an express train and keep it controlled at a low volume.
Cheers [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 01, 2004 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>
Nice. Did you program it "longhand" or hook it up to a keyboard (or download a MIDI file)?
----------------------------------------------
I just sat down, played on a little keyboard that has midi capability and started feeling some different chord progressions with some easy melodies. ... I might do a video with audio sometime in the future. Its nothing compared to what Akira Jimbo or Tony Verderosa have out, but its a pretty good start for a little td6 module. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Oh.. Yeah Dennis sure has the groove down [img]wink.gif[/img]
Thanks a bunch
Is chambers playing that rlr rlr L/r-lr rlr like porcaro? The way he's playing it, it kind of sounds to my ears more like rll rll Rll rll.
Sounds great though, and I love the stuff he's doing between ride and hihat.
I agree rudy. He's got some sweet chops!
I think I here the hi-hat hitting with the snare(at the beginning) and not the rll rll Rll version that you might be hearing.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now if the hi-hat part didnt have the distinct shuffle sound to it, or would sound like normal 8ths then I would agree. But this groove is very fluid. Not sure you can critisize something there, or am I misssing something.Quote:
Originally posted by shedder:
oh my, chambers is not a good example of a great shuffle drummer (especially on that clip!). can someone say jeff porcaro?
I realize hes not famous for his shuffles, but this clip serves as a good example. Wouldnt you say?
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 01, 2004 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]</font>
that shuffle groove is everything but fluid. he plays with no dynamics and the swung notes sound to machine like.
Johnny, in my distraction with the chambers clip, I forgot to say, nice playing [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
thanks for sharing...sounds good to me.
Dennis is great, but for shuffle inspiration, I would go to the source:
Check out:
Babylon Sisters - Steely Dan (Purdie)
Home at Last- Steely Dan (Purdie)
Heatwave- Martha & the Vendellas (Pistol Allen)
...and anything by Art Blakey
I'll bet no one on the planet could come close to Pistol on "Heatwave"...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 01, 2004 03:34 PM: Message edited by: cjbdrm ]</font>
i can't shuffle for the life of me. damn shame
here, here shedder! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Hey, thanks a bunch guys! I'll work on the ghost note stuff and loosening up then I'll post a video sometime and you can see if I have progressed at all.
Thanks again!
So as I was saying in my last post, a shuffle groove doesn't have to played heavy and with venom, in fact this generally detracts from the groove.... and talking of groove (nice link!!) Here's an fine example from the great Mel Lewis. It's the Thad Jones & Mel Lewis Orchestra with The Groove Merchant.
The arrangement is just stunning and the shout chorus is one of my favourites. I know it's not a half time shuffle as played by Johnny, but check out how light and bouncy the feel is.
Enjoy. [img]smile.gif[/img]
The Groove Merchant
Mel is something!
Notice the accents, with the kick
and the snare. Dynamic!! I believe
it's about contrast. If you stay up
on it, there's only one place for you
to go and that's down! You know
what I mean? You have to keep it
down. It can be sharp but make
that in contrast to another section.
Great example of the shuffle, Dazz!!
On the half-time, Pretty is the stand-
ard for me - the Steely stuff iconic!
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 02, 2004 04:02 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
I can understand trying to get it just right. I'm an expert at it. People ask me all the time how I pull it off so effortlessly every time. It's actually been handed down, so to speak, through my family's generations. I've had people from other parts of the world tell me they want to get a taste of it. Yes sir, my souffle is second to none.
Oh, wait a minute....I just reread the posts. Never mind. I'm always working on that damn shuffle. Think I'll start working on how I look attempting it. I really put a lot of weight to that old expression. Thanks for the reminder, Daz.
Glad you enjoyed the Mel Lewis Peter, he's just so pretty! And talking of pretty - there's Bernard! I saw him at the Jazz Cafe in London a few months back and dtood a few feet away from his kit - I couldn't stop smiling. TThe man oozes groove.
piccupstix, now I'm really confused!!
[img]confused.gif[/img]
Great tune Dazz, cheers! Mel Gives it a real happy, light feel with no overplaying at all. Nice.
Hey Dazzler thanks for that tune... its got some great movement!
Johnny, I can't play your video clip so I can't comment. Sorry.
Thanks for the tune Dazz. Mel has a superb feel. His version of "Fly me to the moon" is the 1st big band tune I attempted to play.
And talking about half-time shuffle. The very 1st time I heard this groove was on Uzeb 1st album "Fast emotions" (1982) with Paul Brochu on drums. I was in my young metal phase but I became fascinated by this groove and the ghosting. I learned it by myself by ear, rolling the tape hundreds of time, even though it was a jazz record.
Here's a sample of Junk Funk (doesn't sound to good but it gives the idea):
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B000005FQX001008/0/103-9526190-8707044"]Junk Funk[/ame]
Then I heard Rosanna. Since Toto IV also came out in 1982, I was convinced that Jeff had stolen Paul's groove (Hey, it must be the rock guy who steals the jazz guy! [img]wink.gif[/img] ). After that, I learned that Bernard did it before them.
My 3rd exposition to this groove was on a not so well known album by french/gypsy guitarist Bireli Lagrene "Inferno" (1987). Bernard shares the drum chair with Weckl, Pierre Moerlen and Dan Gotllieb. Here's a sample of Rock It with "Pretty" Purdie:
Rock It
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 03, 2004 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Tombo 7/4 ]</font>
Cheers Tombo, that junkfunk is killing and a cheeky little bass line too!
By the way, you put too many 'https' at the start of the other link, so here is the Purdie tune:
Purdie Shuffle
[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Hmmmm...I think Chambers sounded great on that shuffle clip. he adds to it what is undeniably chambers! Not everything has to sound and have the same notes as purdie or porcaro to be great. I think jeff would probably say the same thing. Chambers sounded great!
Justo
Hey Justo, we've discussed Dennis playing Rosanna before - check THIS out.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think Jeff once said he nicked that groove from John Bonham. No?Quote:
Originally posted by Tombo 7/4:
Since Toto IV also came out in 1982, I was convinced that Jeff had stolen Paul's groove (Hey, it must be the rock guy who steals the jazz guy! [img]wink.gif[/img] ). After that, I learned that Bernard did it before them.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think Jeff once said he nicked that groove from John Bonham. No?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A teacher once told me that Jeff may have taken it from Bonham (Fool in the rain) who took it from Purdie (Home at last), but that the originator was Elvin Jones.Quote:
Originally posted by skunkfunk:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Tombo 7/4:
Since Toto IV also came out in 1982, I was convinced that Jeff had stolen Paul's groove (Hey, it must be the rock guy who steals the jazz guy! [img]wink.gif[/img] ). After that, I learned that Bernard did it before them.
(Anybody knows a recording where we could hear an Elvin Jones early half-time shuffle?)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Okay Dazz, link corrected!Quote:
Originally posted by Dazzler:
Cheers Tombo, that junkfunk is killing and a cheeky little bass line too!
By the way, you put too many 'https' at the start of the other link, so here is the Purdie tune:
Purdie Shuffle
[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
And that bass line you're refering to is by Alain Caron. Check also "Slinky" and "Brass licks" for other sick bass. He was a kid back then and he is self taught. Now his playing is unreachable, a true virtuoso and my favourite bass player ever. At one point I wanted to switch to bass because of him. Now has his own band and plays with Gino, Mike Stern,...