Kick Drum Placement

kurt! YES....finally someone has questioned this.

why the hell does everyone set up with the bass drum dead straight? its so unatural. the reason weckl said in his videos "i like to play the pedal with my foot at an angle" is because its not really possible to play it straight!! you cant play the pedal straight up, unless your torso is facing left towards the hi-hat (which so many people do). they base their position around hi hat and snare, so when you go to the ride or any floor toms, your giving your torso stress because your having to bend round. very few people sit "central" at their drum set. if u look at pics a lot of people have their stool infront of the kick and snare to the left of that.....but the snare is the most important piece of the kit...the steering wheel if u like. the stool should be dead infront of the snare, with the double pedal and hi-hat (or just hi hat pedal) equally positioned either side of the snare, so your feet are at a 45 degree angle.

the only problem with having the bass drum angled this way is if you have your toms both mounted on the bass drum. this can be a problem. but the "standard" tom set up (i.e vinnie's kit set up) is also a little unatural. with the snare dead infront of you....your toms (if u have two) should sit on a stand either side of the snare....so, again, your central to them. if u have one tom its easier because u can hang it off a stand and place it anywhere. one other ajustment that has to be made, is that the hi-hat is more far away. this really took some getting used to....but actally its in a better place and a little higher.

these things mostly came from thomas....he taught me loads of stuff about this. and it took me about 2-3 months to sort out my set up. while there is no right or wrong way to set-up, these guidlines certainly helped me....and looking at nearly everyone elses kit....i just cant believe they sit that way...and that i used to. its as if everyone sets up wrong!! i saw a pic of dennis' kit and it made me gasp....his legs must be splayed everywhere.

i'll go find some pics and post so u can see what i mean.

http://www.thedrumland.com/photos/chambers/dcwebset.jpg

this pic totally demonstrates how not to sit. the stool is not infront of the snare and look at the bar of dennis'pedal, the left foot and leg is in a totally different place to the right. and he is not actually facing the audience....he is facing towards the left (completely towards the 8" tom).

however....dennis' hi-hat is probably the most important voice to him, so perhaps he needs it close. thats the only excuse :-)

That's pretty freaky on Chambers set up.

I'm goning to play around with my set right now even though the toms are mounted on the kick. Maybe I'll post a pic later on if I get it right.

ok...now i cant post this actual pic...so go to:

www.sticktrix.com and then "gear" and then "pop idol tour kit"

that should bring up a pic of thomas' kit.

this is totally a natural way to sit. stool (and therefore body) directly infront of snare...pedals and toms positioned equally.

this stuff doesnt apply to guys using loads of toms or loads of chops! nowadays i often set up just bass drum with double pedal, hi-hat, snare and crash and ride. thats all. i use this to practice and when i played with a pop/funk band recently for a while. i just didnt need all the shit. just nice solid backbeat stuff....and the bass, snare and hats is what its all about. and this new and better way of sitting makes it feel soo much more natural and comfortable!

would a piano player sit and the piano and face the left...or sit right infront of the 1st octave? no.

the only guys i know of that set up like this is thomas, portnoy (when only using one bass drum) and mangini.

i think the main thing about the suggestion of having your leg in a straight line with the bass drum is to keep your knee and ankle in a straight line. not neccesarily to have it right in front of the bass drum.

the angle of your legs should also take in to consideration your torso and waist movement. combining these two things should be enough to accomidate relaxed movement.

chris perra

that probably is the reason. it is thought that your thigh, knee, ankle and foot must be in a straight line. but that is not natural. if one is to sit down on a chair...they will tend to sit with feet spread out slightly at a 45degree angle. thats just the way it is. you walk like this too, u dont walk with your feet dead straight......there are no straight lines in life.

There's an interesting snippet on this at the beginning of the first disc of Portnoy's DVD. He's decribing his (essentially 5-piece) cut-down, single-kick LTE set and describing his initial difficulty when comparing it to his standard two-kick set. Then he just went back to basics, put his snare dead centre, the single kick where his right kick would normally be in the correct place for his right foot (that is, at an angle), and built up from there.

I also noticed Paul Doucette on the new MB20 DVD has a kick straight in front - but it seems to be for decoration only. He has another off outside his floor toms to the side, which seems to be his go-to kick.

I've been toying with my 5-piece kit in a kind of zero-effort fashion, using Visio on the PC. Sometime this week I'm gonna break it out of the bags in the garage and see what happens.

Anyone tried pedals like the Sonor GMP or the Point Tremolo Off-Set one - with the beaters on a central mount and the pedals are both actually slaves, one either side? That would allow for a more symmetrical set-up.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 25, 2004 06:54 PM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>

Today I was sitting at a bar stool thinking. When I set relaxed not thinking what my feet are doing they always seem to form a V around 45deg. Then I noticed that alot of people play drum with the kick straight infront of their leg. I was wondering if anybody has tried or liked playing with the kick at an angle like most dbl kick sets? I'm not sure if having it in a straight line or not would really matter in playing because most of the action comes from your ankle / foot anyway.

We did a clinic with Wil Calhoun in June and he played a pedal like the Sonor GMP or Offset pedal, but his was made for him by Sleishman - at least I think that's the guy's name. I thought it was odd that he didn't use Sonor's version, as their pedals are very high quality, but not cheap!.

Brad

u guys r too by the book. do what feels right. i have my bass drum at an angle because thats how i like it and have had it that way after i had been playing almost a year. my hi hat pedal is angled as well. ba-hurten. [img]graemlins/smarty.gif[/img]

Great points! I've use the V-drums for practice and have set them up so they are real comfortable. However when I looked at my feet/pedal placement it did create a natural "V" around the snare drum (similar to Kurt's note). Then when I looked at the toms, the second of the two rack toms was roughly straight above the kick pedal. So, now I've shifted the toms over on my acoustic kit so that the second tom is more over the center of kick (similar to Lang's and actually along the lines of Weckl's set-up, but with the toms about equal in height). The pedals are still with the V shape and it is much more comfortable than before. And, now the ride is moved slightly to the left and in a more comfortable position as well.

Getting this right is proving remarkably tricky. What I wanted to do with my 7-piece (8/10/12/14/16) was set up the kick pedals and snare, place the kick based on that, then arrange the toms. And the last part of that is proving a real pain. It's all very well on paper, but in 3D it's not so easy. Either my 8" tom fouls the hats, or the 12" tom (which is over the centre of the kick) won't hang at the correct angle (it's a "universal" depth).

Gah. This will not defeat me. I will not be beaten by some glorified mahogany tubes and scraps of mylar. [img]mad.gif[/img]

LOL.

I think we ALL have been through this one at 1 time or another. [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]confused.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/grrr.gif[/img]

Welcome to [-just one of the many aspects of-] "Drummer's H*ll"... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Well, it seems to work for Dennis.

Remember that Dennis is shorter
and he likes his drums very close
together.

Setup is a real personal thing. I
think anything other than mine is
crazy but I suspect you do too.

[img]wink.gif[/img]

For balance, you need more set-up
to your left, including toms and
cymbals etc.

In the old days, I used to think
that having my HH further from my
snare was crazy. Now that I play
open, I don't feel that way.

It's going to differ from player
to player.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

Hah! I win...

http://www.moonbeams.plus.com/kit.jpg

My busted-ass camera's flash seems to have decided that synchronisation is entirely optional, but you get the drift...

Great topic. Nice pics of Dennis's kit and of yours also, moos!

I've spent quite a bit of time experimenting with this very issue (for a couple of years now!), and have learned quite a bit. Seeing Virgil in clinic (2001) inspired me to revisit the positioning of the pedals and throne. I haven't gotten it perfect, but I'm more comfortable now than I've ever been.

I think the pic of Dennis's kit is deceiving....I can't believe that's where the seat is when he plays.

To get a feel for how far the throne is from the pedals, notice the throne is "even with" a point between his second and third floor tom. I've got 14" and 16" floor toms (a' la Weckl/Smith/Vinnie) and I'm over 6'-2" tall. If I put my throne that far back, there would be no way I could reach the pedals at all, much less play them comfortably.

Dennis is certainly a better player than I, but I know I'm taller! [img]wink.gif[/img]

John Otto,from Limp Bizkit,puts his bass drum to an angle!its to his right and his tom are set up front of him with stands. Its more confortable to play "angled" then straight.

Cesar

moosetication....nice pic! thats it man!

Thanks. Feels great. Some tweaking left for sure, but lots of goodness. Putting the 12" right over the centre of the kick opens up a space and lets me bring the ride around to a much more comfortable position too. The 8" is an inch or so more of a reach than I'd like, but it's still comfortable.

But man, do I need a two-leg hat stand. And look at that yawning chasm on the left of the hats. Wait ... sniff ... what's that I smell ... sniff ... a 13" rack tom, you say? And ... sniff ... some bongos perchance? My word...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 27, 2004 06:24 AM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>

[Yawning chasm"]...LH FT; piccolo sn...or timbales, rotos, bongos "Neil/Terry/Dave" [more like Horacio]... ;c)

I'm betting Den's throne is pulled back away after getting up, & not in it's "seated" position in relation to his playing the kit.

Nice set, moose. & dig those dampening/muffling pads [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] ...how are they for ya?

...live in an apt., or cranky, unhip neighbors, perchance? ;c)

..."to sleep; perchance to dream"...but not if moose removes his mufflers...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 27, 2004 11:56 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

No problemo.

Mufflers are def WAY cheaper than purchasing the additional d's or even V's, tho [img]wink.gif[/img] ...

I forgot to add "stuffy & uptight " to the "cranky, unhip neighbor" thing.

...let me tell you all about one [several] that I've had...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 27, 2004 01:57 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

sure...dennis will prob move his throne to sit down. but he's still gonna be facing way towards the 8" tom and therefore not even facing the audience! damn rude if u ask me [img]wink.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Originally posted by FuseU1:
...dampening/muffling ... how are they for ya?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely horrible, thanks for asking.

Quote:

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...live in an apt., or cranky, unhip neighbors, perchance?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nah. The A's are in the garage, which is not exactly a soundproof environment. I also have a set of Es in the music room in the house, but no room for the As in there. I need 'em both ... just can't practice the geography on Es.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 27, 2004 01:00 PM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>