Clinic Video
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I love this clip. Pretty sure I've seen it on here before. Doesn't matter: I suggest everyone checks it out. He goes absolutely nuts on this clip. I can't wait to see Keith at the Montreal Drum Fest in november.
Ummm what program plays asx files!?!?
windows media player plays them
Just unbelievable as always, I see Keith Carlock all the time here around NY. Such a badass player. Hes the Gadd of my generation! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
It was here in the forum before:
KEITH CARLOCK - CLINIC VIDEO in HOD
Bye
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 21, 2005 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Juan Expo ]</font>
Yeah, wicked clip. He does this really fat groove at about 4:11. Amazing.
thanks for the post! so funky!! is he using a 20" kick?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The newest media player should handle this fine. The file itself is relatively small, as you can see from downloading it. However, once opened, it downloads data from the internet. I guess its similar to streaming a video clip.Quote:
Originally posted by CLWarunki:
Ummm what program plays asx files!?!?
An ASX (Advanced Stream Redirector) file is merely a pointer to the real video. It tells Media Player where to find the video.
As Microsoft says:<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote:
An ASX file is an eXtensible Markup Language (XML)-based text file which references a Uniform Resource Locator (URL) for a piece of media content. By using more advanced features of the ASX, you can do a host of things, such as: string multiple clips together, include meta data (title, author, copyright information), banner ads, and much more.
As aamazing as Keith is, I would never say he's the "Gadd of our generation".
Gadd was a session player. Keith is not. He's not on jingles, not on over 25 albums, and not a multi stylist.
He IS however, an amazing player with an original sound.
Not sure if it's been mentioned here before or not, but if you're a Keith Carlock fan, you MUST pick up Oz Noy's "Ha!" album....some phenomenal playing from everyone involved on that disc....
Audiophile has yet to ship me the Oz Noy Live CD I ordered last week, but I'm sure that one will be outstanding as well.....
I think Keith's ideas are pretty fresh in the way he executes them. for some reason, his playing reminds me of Bohnam. Perhaps its the bass drum work.
I think Keith is slowly forging his own niche of style, which I quite like. If you listen to Krantz's albumn w/Danziger, you can see why he picked Carlock to be on Greenwich Mean. The type of playing Keith does in his solo reminds me of Krantz, alot.
The bass player whom I just played with last week at the Jazz Festival in Italy (Chris Tarry) played with Keith Carlock and Oz Noy a few days ago in Boston (Ryles Jazz Club). I didn't go (jet lag--ugh!).
Any Bostonians see the gig?
Steve Michaud
He's no Gadd, that's for sure.
I'm with Steve on him. I want to like him more than I do. He sounds fine, has a decent groove, technique, but is kind of a basher, and doesn't strike me as quite deserving his stellar reputation.
I really want to like Keith, and this clip. I keep coming back to it and giving it a chance but always end up turning it off after a few minutes. I like his left-hand phrasing but overall he doesn't really do anything for me.
"Doesn't deserve his reputation"? I don't want to go off on a different tangent, but...
I guess it depends on what you mean by "reputation". I think there's a lot of hype around certain players, yes. In this day & age, there's so much emphasis on the next big thing or who's the next Gadd or Colaiuta, that combined with the speed at which our culture moves now...it seems like players are so saturated with information, how are we to develop our own sound or our own reputation?
I think Keith has enough skill to get where he is. He has credentials and although I'm sure a majority of his success is based on his 'connections'; he's made the right connections in the industry,obviously. That entitles him to "deserve his reputation".
Did he earn it, sure. Earning a reputation isn't based on pure skill & technique anymore, and I'm no industry analyst, but like I said, it's a combo of who you know, your credentials and your playing(ironically I'd say you could argue playing ability comes last, in order of importance).
Again, it depends on what you define as "repuation". Just a thought.
Keith has decent technique? I would like to see anyone here ghost the left hand like he does at blazing tempos. I went to a place called the 55 bar when I was in NY, and they were playing 16 grooves at around 140bpms and Keiths left hand was incredible. I have never seen anyone use it like that. His groove is not decent. In my opinion it's deep. No one who is merely decent gets hired by Sting and Donald Fagen, and Grover. He may not be a Gadd, but I think you're being too harsh, maybe even a bit jealous. Keith is a monster.
I also saw him in Denver with Sting and he did a fine job. I can't believe the egos on this board. It's ok to say he does nothing for you, but to belittle his feel and ability. Give me a break. Next time Sting calls you for a tour or Yamaha sets up a clinic tour for you, let me know.
If I belittled Keith, I really didn't mean to. I stand by the technique comment. He looks awkward when he plays and I don't think there's anything especially impressive about his technical skills. His grip, excessive motions, bouncing/bashing etc., strike me as a guy who plays well in spite of (not because of) his technique.
What's more, I don't begrudge him his success and I'm not jealous of him. I think he's a good groove player, but I have absolutely no desire to play like he does. I honestly haven't heard that much of him with a band, and I would expect that would be the context in which he would truly shine. The comparison to Gadd was what I meant by his stellar reputation. Sorry, but Gadd's in another league. Keith sounds good, but I don't find him that interesting, or particularly exceptional.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Weckl, Vince, Chambers, Novak, Heredia, Donati, Hass, Danziger, Rosenblatt, Tain, Gottlieb, El Negro, J Taylor, the list goes on & on.Quote:
ghost the left hand like he does at blazing tempos
Other guys who's grip &/or posture looks odd or uncomf to me [altho they are all exceptionally monstrous players in their own] are Covington, Blade, & Sanchez [grip only].
Carlock is a good player, nice groove. I would not put him in league with some of the cats i just mentioned tho, however - JMPO!
But in the end, it's the music that counts...he doesn't fail in this area. I enjoy his playing to a large degree, but he doesn't knock me the F on my A like Vince, Weck, etc. Sorry to always go back to that, but WTH, it often does end up going back to that for me...talking strictly drumming wise. Other than that.efer to the above. [img]wink.gif[/img]
No ego here...I'm no VC or DW either. [img]wink.gif[/img] Anyways, again, i didn't mean to stack him against the all-time heavyweigfht / mighty yardsticks either, cuz that's not what it's always all about either.
Play on [music, that is]. [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 24, 2005 11:18 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny because I find that all those ghost note are a little be too much sometime...Quote:
Originally posted by PortJazz:
Keith has decent technique? I would like to see anyone here ghost the left hand like he does at blazing tempos. I went to a place called the 55 bar when I was in NY, and they were playing 16 grooves at around 140bpms and Keiths left hand was incredible. I have never seen anyone use it like that. His groove is not decent. In my opinion it's deep. No one who is merely decent gets hired by Sting and Donald Fagen, and Grover. He may not be a Gadd, but I think you're being too harsh, maybe even a bit jealous. Keith is a monster.
I also saw him in Denver with Sting and he did a fine job. I can't believe the egos on this board. It's ok to say he does nothing for you, but to belittle his feel and ability. Give me a break. Next time Sting calls you for a tour or Yamaha sets up a clinic tour for you, let me know.
It must be worse when the time is very speed !!!
I don't think that playing ghost is alway necessary for grooving.
Anyway, Keith plays great no doubt about that, but he bored me...
He has nothing to "eat" for me.
And playing with Sting or Fagen is great, I'm glad for him he did it, but it's not the main goal for every musicians to play with them !!!
A lot of would have a great career without play with them, thanks God for that.
Peace.
I can live with that response. I feel like having your own thing on an instrument, a completely original sound, that has it's origins, but yet is unique, and having artists like that wanting that sound on their albums and tours, is a lifelong accomplishment that most of us will never experience. I feel we should respect that. He's amazing at what he does.
I do respect his drumming and his career, as I'm sure everyone here does. We should all be so fortunate.
PortJazz, I know you're new here, Welcome aboard. This board
a bunch of drummers from different backgrounds with different tastes, that share a mutual admiration of great drumming and drummers of all types. We often don't all agree, and will often express those differences about an artist, without intending disrespect. Any criticism is just an opinion, and unlike many other boards, isn't meant as a personal attack on an artist.
Again, welcome aboard!
Brad
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with that. [img]cool.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by PortJazz:
I can live with that response. I feel like having your own thing on an instrument, a completely original sound, that has it's origins, but yet is unique, and having artists like that wanting that sound on their albums and tours, is a lifelong accomplishment that most of us will never experience. I feel we should respect that. He's amazing at what he does.
And V too. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Keith is one of my favorite players when he can express himself freely. (Krantz or Oz)
He's got his own sound that has no Vinnie or Weckl in it at all thank God. There's too many of us as it is.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats right on.Quote:
Originally posted by Vdrummer:
His grip, excessive motions, bouncing/bashing etc., strike me as a guy who plays well in spite of (not because of) his technique.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 26, 2005 01:06 PM: Message edited by: shedder ]</font>
Yeah, i tend to go w V & shed on that one also. [JMO]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LMAO - Heard that.Quote:
Originally posted by Derek DeFields:
Keith is one of my favorite players when he can express himself freely. (Krantz or Oz)
He's got his own sound that has no Vinnie or Weckl in it at all thank God. There's too many of us as it is.
Agree AW. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
[I'm glad you said, "us..."] [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 26, 2005 02:39 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
What bashing? Have you ever head the guy live?? Vinnie bashes much more than Keith! Keith has one of the lightest touches on the drums I've seen. Actually, when I saw him live, it turned me off at first. His sound when not miked, is super thin and jazzy. No balls at all. He appear to bash, but if you ever saw him live, you would agree, he does not bash. One other thing I don't understand, is how some of you judge technique. Everyone's body is different, therefor everyone's technique is different. Not everyone can look the same behind the drums and make the same motion. He has amazing technique, and his bass drum accuracy is plain flawless.
sometimes, I'am just wondering about some posts.
what he is doing is OF COURSE NEW and INNOVATIVE.
he uses something like 8 over three and integrates this into a groove.
NO ONE did this before.
and that's the reason, why he is THE MOST innovative drummer of today,
because I can clearly say, WHAT is new and need only one sentcence to describe it.
and it's a simple but great idea.
sometimes I think, some of you just don't get the message, he send.
PJ, you just won't let it drop, huh?
Okay, we all make evaluations based on different criteria and compare players to one another. It's a pretty natural thing to do. Since I'm a drum teacher, it's an occupational hazard.
A student comes in, and I diagnose what the primary obstacles they have towards becoming a better player, or improving at a piece of music they're mutilating. I can usually do it within a few seconds of watching someone play. The better the player, the longer it takes. These problem areas with most drummers are usually lack of practice, playing too fast, poor grip, lack of reading skills, poor technical skills, weak dynamics, sparse rhythmic vocabulary, repetitiveness, lack of creativity, inability to phrase interestingly, etc. These are things I do for 60-ish students a week.
Yes, bodies are different. Hand size, proportion of fast to slow twitch muscle fiber varies, as does height, arm length etc, not to mention mental things like IQ, creativity, memory, mathematical skills, pattern recognition, impulsivity versus control, emotional traits, and personality type - all of which affect the way someone plays. So there of course, innate are differences from player to player.
So I don't know why you think it's unreasonable to evaluate a person's playing and technique based on their quality of grip, efficiency of motion, smoothness of playing, speed, accuracy, originality, creativity, or control. Also, a player may lack in some areas, yet make up much in others and still be a fine player. I think Keith sounds like a good player but he doesn't do a lot for me - from the clip that was posted. I also don't think he has
strong technical skills. Of course, my background and standards just may be different than yours. I have a rudimental snare background, but am principally a set drummer.
The use of the word "basher" referred to not simply the decible output of his drumming, but the apparent efficiency of his motions in general. I frankly think he moves a lot more than he needs to. I love powerful, yet efficient drummers like Vinnie. What of course really counts is musicality, groove and creativity. Keith seems to have those things to different degrees, but he still doesn't excite me that much as a player in that clip. But as I said, I haven't heard much of him with a band and would like to. If you have something you like him playing, or something that demonstrates what you feel is impressive technique - post it.
Brad
Perhaps "bashing" is a stronger word than necessary. But my aggreement was with the overall "tone" of the sentiment, all except that word.
It wasn't really an insult at all, as it was summarized by the remark that he plays WELL despite these indy personal observations & opinions.
I LIKE KC. Don't mind him one bit. I like VC even more. I'm entitled to that right of opinion. When you look at a guy like Vince you're looking at some good execution of technique, visually, which of course some may be entitled to assuredly disagree; won't change my mind about him one iota tho. By saying i like VC more is in no way slamming your boy. It's just pointing out mine. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Just a thought. Once again, it's all just personal opinion "eye of the beholder" stuff anyway. NO BIG DEAL.
OK, NOW let's talk about Virgil...& Tain. [*Ducks & runs behind Weckl who's behind Vinnie*]... [img]wink.gif[/img] Jazz isn't dead [it just smells funny]. J/K
I jest somewhat exceedingly.
What were we doing here again? Oh...
Peace in the Valley... [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 27, 2005 07:06 AM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
Other cats whom i also think are absolutely AMAZING players, but who "hurt" me to watch, are Covington, Blade...ASanchez has a strange grip to me too...looks like he'd run the risk of cramping up if he's not careful [thumb itself, also area btwn thumb & index]...[but obviously that's just "the way it looks"]... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
Like them or not, the "technq monsters" as some like to call them - Lang, Virg, Mang, also VC, Weck, Novak, Chambers, on & on - do another service by showing what really efficient technq looks like. I realize differences occur in indy physiology & other factor issues [as V stated earlier], but essentiaslly they all appear to have "good form." JMHO
But in the end, it's what you hear that counts really. But yes, as drumrs who want to continue to strive for excellence, these things are constantly re-examined fr T2T... [img]cool.gif[/img]
Keith doesn't have strong technical skills? He played snare in the UNT drumline, the best in the country. What do you mean by technique? Just curious, I'm not looking for an argument...
I can see someone saying they don't like his particular technique(exaggerated arm motion, etc.), but I would say that someone without strong technical skills wouldn't be able to pull off the stuff he's playing. I've seen him up close and personal many times. His time is impeccable. He can play very soft to very loud with equal intensity...his coordination is equally impressive. I'm not just judging him on this clip, by the way.
Technique is not holding him back. That "in spite of" description doesn't make sense to me. The guys hands are insane. Elvin Jones, maybe yeah "in spite of"...but not Keith...
Like I said, many, many times now - I'm judging solely based what I saw on the clip. Not based on what he did in college, or on a record I haven't heard, or a show I haven't seen. I think we're at an impasse.
I think that's true. We all have opinions, etc., and obviously he and I have different preferences and criteria. PJ, asked how I/we could make an evaluation of someone's playing/technique based on visual cues, as well as his sound, execution, finesse, and originality. Like it or not, we all do that all the time.
Peace.
I love Keith's musicianship and phrasing, but, the sound on this clip is so distorted that it's really hard to appreciate.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with some of the comments regarding Keith's techniques. I don't think that you are giving enough credit to Keith's intention to sound the way he wants to. In other words he's making these choices to sound this way. The only way you would be able to say that his technique is holding him back is if he has said what he is trying to achieve with his playing. If he were to say that yes he is trying to sound like a Vinnie, Weckl, Gadd clone then yeah time to re-evaluate the technique. But he's not about that, he's about serving the music with some degree of individuality. In that case that's where his technique is actually helping him, it's helping him to NOT sound like everyone else. Everyone talks about how mysterious Elvin sounds and how hard it is to sound like that. No one knows how he got those sounds. There's no book or teachers for his stuff. To me the fact that he was able to do that is priceless. I agree with GAMG about Blade and would have to add Bill Stewart, and especially Ari Hoenig and Jeff Ballard to that list. Those guys look like an absolute mess when they play. But, man those guys have sound that is all their own.
I've seen Keith w/Krantz a few times and every time I was blown away by their energy. I hear Keith as a mix of Tony, Bonham, and Jack D. I like his take on playing over the bar and beat/phrase displacement; funky but with some the nastiness of Bonham.
You make some good points No_Bells, and I agree with many of them, but I didn't say his technique was holding him back. I said I thought he played well in spite of (not because of) his technique. By that I meant that his motions, grip, etc., seem a bit awkward, yet he still plays well in the clip. I don't think KC is trying to become a Vinnie, Lang or Virgil. If he is, he's going about it all wrong. I was responding to the people here who thought his technique was strong. His time seems strong, his groove sounds good, he's expressive, and he sounds musical. Fine - but these things are not technique. They are however "techniques" to get and keep gigs. His technique IS strong enough for him to play the way he plays.
If he wanted to play more technically demanding music ala Lang, Virgil, or Vinnie, he'd have to either use, refine or develop a different technical approach to the kit. I do not believe the current motions, grip etc., would work for very demanding technical music. But since Keith wisely isn't into all that crap, and is more about groove and feel, this whole conversation seems a bit pointless to me. Lots of people here really dig his playing and have heard and seen him in different contexts. I've only seen this clip, and my comments are solely based on that. His technique is fine for what he's doing. I just don't think that's his strongest point.