anyone using single headed drums these days? anyone famous using them?
whose got thoughts on the subject. i have been experimenting with single-headed drums lately and have been having a lot of fun.
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anyone using single headed drums these days? anyone famous using them?
whose got thoughts on the subject. i have been experimenting with single-headed drums lately and have been having a lot of fun.
I think the resonant head is critical to getting...you guessed it...resonance. I've always had both heads on and couldn't imagine changing this. Not sure of any "famous" cats who use a single head.
The drummer in Triumph used to play single-headed toms, in fact they only had lugs for the top head. They sounded great in an arena but I doubt there'd be much nuance in the studio or a club.
I'm too much of a traditionalist (as stated in another thread) to want a radical sound like that. Kinda like Bozzio's rotos, all attack, good for him, bad for moi.
Phil Collins' kit is usually single-headed. I haven't played one in years.
i had heard that stanton moore was doing some shows w/ single-headed drums.
i took off my bottom heads to get RID of the resonance for some reggea recording that i was doing. . . was going for a Sly Dunbar sound. Sounded great to my ears and opened my mind to the different scenarios in which the fat attack provided by the single head was HIGHLY preferable to a long sustain. Many engineers and sound-people commented about the "old sound" and the relative ease of miking and mixing them.
imho all things come back in vogue . . . big drums may come back in vogue and replace all the "fusion" and "fast" sizes, or maybe not. single head drums do provide tremendous attack, substantially more volume (especially w/ CS heads) and a lower fundamental pitch. sensitivity is out the window so its not for every scenario- i laugh when guys bash a 16" A thin crash with a 2b as hard as possible-THAT sounds like shit.
Single-headed (or concert) toms can sound amazing. Keep in mind that they 'feel' different too, and don't provide as much rebound as double-headed toms. You can get some great recording sounds too. A lot of the old Gino Vannelli stuff was recorded with single headed toms with the mics up inside. This includes Mark Craney's setup on Brother To Brother and Vinnie Colaiuta's setup on Nightwalker. Both incredible 'drum sound' records.
Let's not forget Phil Collins' amazing sound on A Trick Of The Tail too...
ah, Gil Moore of triumph.
1 name comes to mind in that classic sound.......Nigel Ollsen
That's interesting about the Gino Vannelli stuff. Those are great drum sounds.
I think Hal Blaine used to play single headed toms. Maybe, he still does.
Nigel Olson does one heck of a job on the new BB King record! Some of the best studio-performances this summer [img]smile.gif[/img]
on the Nightwalker cd, i know Vinnie's kit was augmented by drums from Gino's kit, but i believe they were double headed drums but just with either tape and or 2 ply heads.
the sounds are much different on that disc then brother to brother.
my fav Nigel performance is the Captain Fantastic cd by Elton John, front to back that record is a masterpiece.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I love the stuff Nigel did with Elton. Amazing drum sounds and approach.Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Walker:
1 name comes to mind in that classic sound.......Nigel Ollsen
Single headed (concert) toms will KILL your tone... it will be nothing but staccato attack. If you want a "nostalgic" sound from the 70's, then single heads might be the way to go... personally I think the whole "single head rules era" was a bit, i dunno, lame! Tone is important to every instrument and there is more resonance with double heads.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what era is that? concert toms were in vogue as an option in the 70s/early 80s- not what i would consider a lame era for music.Quote:
Originally posted by CLWarunki:
personally I think the whole "single head rules era" was a bit, i dunno, lame!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what era is that? concert toms were in vogue as an option in the 70s/early 80s- not what i would consider a lame era for music.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah that era. A bit before my time I guess I missed out! One of those "you had to be there" type of scenarios maybe.Quote:
Originally posted by dr-funkenstein:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CLWarunki:
personally I think the whole "single head rules era" was a bit, i dunno, lame!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope. Bottom heads removed, mic up inside.Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Walker:
i know Vinnie's kit was augmented by drums from Gino's kit, but i believe they were double headed drums but just with either tape and or 2 ply heads.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. Concert toms sound different, for sure, but there's still tone. Just not much (if any) resonance. It's a beautiful sound for some applications. Hardly 'lame'.Quote:
Originally posted by CLWarunki:
Single headed (concert) toms will KILL your tone... it will be nothing but staccato attack.
Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 22, 2005 08:00 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font>
how bout that fill on "In the air tonight." probably the most famous drumfill in the last 25 years- brought to you by SINGLE HEADED TOMS!!!
more non-drummers (you know, regular people) know that fill and air-drum to it when it comes on than any other fill i can think of! most famous fill of all time????
thanks single headed drums. you move me.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 24, 2005 03:12 PM: Message edited by: dr-funkenstein ]</font>
Keep in mind that with Phil Collins you are not hearing organic single headed drums. You are hearing the original sound manipulated by a ton of reverb, noise gates, compression and a lot of other processing. Yeah, very cool drum sound - I agree, but do you expect the average single-headed tom kit to sound like the drums on "In The Air Tonight"!?
Funny enough the drummer from the opening band of my gig last night was using a single headed Ludwig kit... and it sounded terrible.
Too bad Phil Collins wasn't the soundman that night! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I remember seeing Jeff Porcaro at the Baked Potato with Los Lobotomies back in '86, and he had all the bottom heads removed from his Gretsch toms.... and he sounded great.
Ahhh, yes; Craney, G Moore, & of course Collins, to name but a few.
With the exception of these 3 guys, & perhaps a scant few others, i never liked the concert tom sound. Prob due in large part to their playing itself; part the specific tunes they were on, part their mixdown & FX, part era-specific. Other than that...
If you want to go for "that era" sound [mid/late 70s-early/mid 80s], or as Funk said, a certain reggae/ska/or calypso vibe, sure, no problem. Specific style or genre sound in mind to cop that particular vibe. Cool.
As CLW said, both Collins & Moore's sngl-hd sound had the help of sound-mix gear technology. I thought Moore's sound on Just A Game was cool; Allied Forces even better. Mucho verb-o, tho,for one, which for Triumph's big rock sound style, I liked a lot.
Sngl-hd toms w/OUT the "Collins/Moore outrig" help is just heretic-heathen-dastardly, IMO. /;-P
But for the most part, for standard drumkit, normally I've always been a fan of dbl-hds. Esp since my very 1st "pro" gig kit [local bars; 40 or 50 clams a night] was sngl-hd & sounded naturally [no FX or mix-tweeking] like a huge cup-o-c[arse]dboard. Of course, our sound rig wasn't the greatest either [we ran our own b4 any of us quite yet knew how to get a great live mix]... /;-p
Peart's 1st 4 toms [6, 8, 10, 12"] for MANY yrs since their "beginning" were concerts AW. 'Course, he also knew how to get a good mix for 'em. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
But now he's "closed" all the way down & around. [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 24, 2005 06:10 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
It seemed to be quite popular for a while in the symphonic prog scene. I think Carl Palmer had a single headed kit for a while (with that stupid 34" gong!), that drummer from Gong had one as well. And i seem to remember Bill Bruford or someone else in a pic with that sort of kit. Cant think why - doesn't seem like Bruford's style. Ah well.
I think Stewart Copeland has used concert-tom drum kits on some of his post-Sting stuff (the stuff he was doing with Terry Riley for a while and his group IIRC).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruford made roto-toms popular. If you don't like toms without bottom heads, what do you think of toms without shells? [img]smile.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by LDGuy:
And i seem to remember Bill Bruford or someone else in a pic with that sort of kit.
I'm tellin' ya, every variation has its place, and not everyone can make them sing (you can give a pig a rope but that doesn't make it a cowboy).
Personally, I'm gettin' tired of seeing everyone (myself included) with the same basic setup. It's time for someone to shake it up again.
How about a 26" bass drum, 8 x 14 snare and 8, 10, 12, 14 & 16 concert toms with hydraulic heads tuned loose? [img]wink.gif[/img]
I see your point. But only if i'm in with drum companies - i dont want to spend hard earned cash (cash? what cash?) on stuff i can't make sing. But it would be cool to experiment with setups.
I do believe, aside from the odd drum item, Bruford MUCH preferred the sing & resonance of the closed tom. In fact, i'm pretty sure in an 80's clinic i rem him saying he loathed opened/concerts [unless they were the smaller size]. He DID use rotos tho, didn't he...
Then he turned around with a Simmons endorsement. [img]wink.gif[/img]
I had the "trio" rotos too - 6, 8, & 10" on a stand. Loved 'em. But you have to mic them & add that verb & some other balls to them in the FX dept. Long live the USS Rotobozzio!
-----------------------------
LMAO, DSOP [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 24, 2005 10:52 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
Pierre Moerlin and the cat from Collosium (can't think of his name) used Arbiter autotune (similar to rotos).
jeff used the single headed kit also on the Matheison Super Live disc, lukather,pops popwell.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jon Hiseman.Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Walker:
...the cat from Collosium (can't think of his name) used Arbiter autotune...
That's it! thanks, drawing a mind blank.....late night going into an early gig will do it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i am ready to see that too, DSOP. i think it would be fantastic.Quote:
Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
[QUOTE
Personally, I'm gettin' tired of seeing everyone (myself included) with the same basic setup. It's time for someone to shake it up again.
How about a 26" bass drum, 8 x 14 snare and 8, 10, 12, 14 & 16 concert toms with hydraulic heads tuned loose? [img]wink.gif[/img]
my freind grew up in detroit playing drums. when he moved to LA at 15 or so (early early 80s), it was the first time he regularly saw heads on the bottom of drums. . . knocked him out.
not too many fans of the concert tom here tonight . . . tough crowd. so ahh, whadya guys think of black dot heads????
(dodging tomatoes)
BOOOO!!! hisssssssss BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
oh the humanity
"Single Head vs. Double Headed" - you mean, there was ever a question?!! /;-P
Aww, again; concerts are fine if youre looking for that certain sound or vibe [like i & Doc stated earlier]. [img]wink.gif[/img]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOLQuote:
drawing a mind blank.....late night going into an early gig will do it.
I don't think there's a pro muso alive who hasn't experienced THIS phenom at 1 time or another...oh the joy! [img]wink.gif[/img]
Especially such as the 7:30a soundcheck at Hershey Park [officially at 8a, until 9:50a, which INCLUDES entire band setup. But they are professionals, man. Not bush league. & i ain't talkin' da prez].
Right now all you 9-to-5'ers are saying "OH, boo-hoosy, fusey" I HEAR ya's, there.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LMAOQuote:
not too many fans of the concert tom here tonight . . . tough crowd. so ahh, whadya guys think of black dot heads????
About as much as i feel for cold wooden toilet seats in a klondike january.
Or better yet, black dot heads on a CONCERT TOM. [OMG]
That's akin to the cold seat, & also w Di A. Rhea "sittin' there with ya." With a "flushed face." [img]redface.gif[/img]
I'd rather bend over & stick my own head in my own -----------
...bassdrum. Notice i didn't say yours.
At least that way i know where it's been AWA who's been taking care of it. I know..."that could be arranged"... ;-P
Word [all dead UP yer BD].
J/K
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 25, 2005 09:34 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny you should say that....I've been using black dots for a few months now. I like the sound of them when they're a bit on the tight side, but to tell you the truth, the CLEAR dots sound better to my ears. Trust me on this one. Clear dots are really nice sounding and feel good to play.Quote:
Originally posted by dr-funkenstein:
so ahh, whadya guys think of black dot heads????
I like to switch between clear ambassador and clear-dots with dips on the bottoms.
By the way, I play Yamaha Maple-custom Absolute (non-nouveau).
i personally like the ludwig silver dot so i can see my beautiful mug staring back at me! a lot of disco/funk drummers were using single heads and black dots. i remember the appice brother with black sabbath had the monstrous kit, concert toms and and black dot heads . . . gil moore of triumph too if recall.
gawd thats a thunderous sound.
tony loved the black dot for its volume and attack and its own type of edgy resonance. hmmmm . . . tony and concert toms: one can only dream of that sound.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1 - Yeah, under certain circumstances, & times, [AWA a good engineer!] they were allright!Quote:
Originally posted by dr-funkenstein:
1 - i personally like the ludwig silver dot so i can see my beautiful mug staring back at me! a lot of disco/funk drummers were using single heads and black dots. i remember the appice brother with black sabbath had the monstrous kit, concert toms and and black dot heads . . . gil moore of triumph too if recall.
gawd thats a thunderous sound.
2 - tony loved the black dot for its volume and attack and its own type of edgy resonance. hmmmm . . . tony and concert toms: one can only dream of that sound.
I rem all the funk drummers doing ithe deal. NTM the Commodore's, Kool & Gang, Funkadelic, EWF, M Gaye, etc.
Guess we can let Moore slide too [that was a thunderous sound]... ;-]
2 - He's allowed! [img]wink.gif[/img]
[...He coulda played on a Yugo's deployed front airbags or my great-grandpa's keister & made it sound like a million bucks.]
[img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 25, 2005 09:31 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
LOL
Dropped your rating?! WTH for?! Because of a semi-humorous personal opinion? [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img]
Hey, even if I personally prefer different heads in a closed scenario, doesn't mean the guys you listed weren't the sh-- at the time period for that sound! Helllooo - TONY! [img]cool.gif[/img] /;-]
Like i said, he could play on a blown-out ["flat tire"] synthetic Muscle Beach boob [seen a few in here over the yrs] & prob still kick it.
[I think maybe it was really the pleasant avatar]... [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] j/k
Word.
wow, tough board . . . another negative vote has smashed my pathetic user rating even lower!!
will i ever recover my sense of self worth? i knew i should have never discussed concert toms and black dot heads!!! i'm sooo stupid!!!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL!!! Nice one! Well, for what it's worth, I just raised your rating for ya....Quote:
Originally posted by dr-funkenstein:
i knew i should have never discussed concert toms and black dot heads!!! i'm sooo stupid!!!
thanks gamg and dsop!!
btw, how do you vote for someone?
http://photobucket.com/albums/b90/Dr...=Picture29.jpg
theres one of my sets, and for my toms i like nothin else except 2 heads. the drumset at my old school had single heads on bass drum and the toms (probably becuase some1 nicked the bottom heads for their own kit at home...) and it sounded terrable.
though if u look close to my (blurred) drum set u see on (right) a brass single headed timbale.. which sound crackin just like that.
and if u look even more on the (left) u see (part of) an arbiter flats drum stacked up in the corner- all single headed except for the snare drum (rest of the set is hiding behind there somewhere lol)