-
Well i feel beat down and broken anyway. Did a dyno run with my JRSC yesterday...at 6700 rpm it has about 160 hp and then it just drops off from there. Goes as low as 125 hp. The only thing i can think of is a fuel problem, but i'm about to give up...i need ot buy a house and could use the money i'm puttin ginto the car. I think i have one of those ITR motors that just doesn't like forced induction.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, as I'm at the end of my rope. I want Oscar's opinion on this one. Might even go to Cali and if i can't get this working I'm going back to NA
-
u gotta give us a LITTLE bit more to work with? i am assuming it is a JRSC ITR. do you have a fuel pump? FPR? A/F gauge? FP gauge? if so, give us some readings on each in like 500 rpm increments, and tell us what happens at 6700 rpm to each, and see if you can scan/post the dyno graph? there is no such thing as a motor "that just doesn't like boost". if there is a problem, i am sure there is a way to fix it with just what you have. also, this is not a HP game, it is a torque game http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
-
Hey, E-mail me me at [email protected]
I can help you with your problems, etc... Do worry its just a tuning problem and parts problem. I garentee its not a bad engine, etc... deal. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
-
BTW-I'm in the process of building a website devoted to superchargering type R's correctly! Also have you guys checked out the new Velocity mag? now Jackson is claiming 230whp on a stock JRSC type R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH lolololololol
Anyway, when I get more time I will post more about what to do, unless you E-mail me.
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
-
Ok from the sounds of the problems here's whats most likely wrong:
(Also who installed the kit?)
-Check the JR relay wiring (All most postive its not working right)
-Check the belts tension
-Check the air/fuel ratio. Most likely its way off causing a weak top end
-Check the condition of the spark plugs
-Any check engine lights?
-What other mods do you got?
-If running a stock intake, I bet its pinching shut during WOT. Check that
-Also is any detionation appearing?
-You mentioned in a past post about you having a larger pulley? Is it installed?
That should give you a starting point. Just E-mail me, and I see if you want to talk on the phone about whats happining to it.
If something is wrong, I'm sure someone on this list lives by you, and can help fix the problems.
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
-
Ok here's the deal:
I dyno'd the car before putting on the JRSC and had 162.5 hp. I had the blower installed back in March. Had some detonation problems and pretty much fixed that and then dyno'd it. It now dyno'd at 161hp. After a month or so of trying everything and taking it to SRD in Mesa AZ the told me that they suspected it was a bad blower (only making 4-4.5 psi). At this time I talked to Kieth some more at Jackson Racing and sent them my blower. A month later I got it back and they replaced the rotors and all the internals. I'm now at least making 5-6 psi. My low end has plenty of power and my max torque is 130 and my mas hp is 165. I have hooked up a data logger to my car and found that my intake temp never drops below 140 degrees.
Here's what i've got:
98 ITR with 44,000 miles
JRSC with the 4.02 pully (the stock one)
AEM (GSR) Cold Air Intake
J&S Safeguard with dual monitor
Autometer boost guage
Autometer A/F guage
Jackson Racing Water injection system
Jackson upgraded fuel pump
Comptech headers (4-2-1)
Stock Cat
Comptech catback Exhaust
On the last dyno run I used 100 octane gas. The A/F guage read about 3 bars rich, and the J&S didn't take any timing out. I've been messing with this thing now for 8 months and am just about at my wits end. I know i'ts probably only a fuel problem...running to rich to be exact. I have 2 JR FPR's (the one i'm using now is brand new...about 1 week old). I don't have a fuelpressure guage, but am sick of investing time and money into this thing only to get no love in return. I have the stuff to do the TPS relay thing, but thats not gonna help this at all...only my tip in detonation
-
i can tell you this, you need a FP gauge MUCH more than a boost gauge..!! see if you can trade it, or ind a cheapie, or at least one u can use temporarily. alas, rjaffey is on vacation, as he has been known to be a very methodical troubleshooter for blown tegs and i am sure he can help. he will be back after new years. but i cannot impress this, you NEED a fuel pressure gauge. period. how else can you adjust fuel pressure corectly with idle, vacuum and boost all being variables... i would also re install the stock header to minimize the unknown from the comptech header, at least temporarily (as if headers are SO hard to replace) hehe. anyway, not to worry, we can fix you up, that's why this board is here (at least for the short term future...).
-
Check your mail! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
-
I'm not running an ITR, but on my J&S dual monitor, is lean enough to show only 1 red led.
And actually, in 4th gear, as it gets into higher rpm it goes from one red to the first yellow.
I've been running this way for months. And this seems to be where I'm making maximum power -- at least within the limitations of my current i/h/e etc.
[This message has been edited by reddelsol (edited December 23, 2000).]
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spunkster:
I have hooked up a data logger to my car and found that my intake temp never drops below 140 degrees.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If your datatlogger is indicating that your intake temps are 140 degrees during at least 1psi of boost, then there is part of your problem. The ECU is taking out timing due to high intake temps. When the relay is working during boost, your datalogger should indicate at least 0 to -15 degrees F.
To test if the relay is working, unscrew the black wire on the pressure switch and put the ignition in the ONII position w/out the engine running. Now tap the black wire onto any ground, try the JR manifold. If working properly, you should hear a "click" from the relay everytime to tap on a ground source.
When you get a FP guage try adjusting your JR FMU using this "how to":
FMU adjust
------------------
Mods
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reddelsol:
I'm not running an ITR, but on my J&S dual monitor, is lean enough to show only 1 red led.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The red LED's on the old J&S A/F monitor indicate rich. It's counter intuitive.
------------------
Mods
-
My J&S is the old one....red being rich
Just talked to Mike and there is still hope. I"ll see about getting a fuel pressure guage this week. If all else fails i'll sneak onto the AFB and steal one of the jet engines off one of the mothballed f15's and mount that in my rear hatch and see how that goes.
-
I'm a little confused about the 0 to -15 degree reading on the intake temp. My frind with an Eclipse GSX gets a reading of 70 degrees (this is a turbo for you non-dsm guys)
-
Just a suggestion. Dyno your car without the water injection, see what happens. If your water injection is working overtime, it'll kill your power. If your readings don't change (but Im nearly positive they will for the better), try adjusting your ignition timing.
------------------
-JG-
-1994 Civic EX-
-B18c, blown rings, and turbo in the near future-
-www.vapor-trail.net-
-
He actually wanted to go to JR, but I hope he decides not to. I still can't believe that JR now claims 230whp on a stock JR type R with intake! LoL I will scan the article when I have a chance.
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
-
Get a fuel pressure gauge on that sucker. I can't tell you how many defective walbro pumps I've come across. A lot of times, they just can't hold the pressure, and that would explain why your top end sucks. Could easily solve your problem if thats the case.
------------------
-JG-
-1994 Civic EX-
-B18c, blown rings, and turbo in the near future-
-www.vapor-trail.net-
-
My timing is at 11 or 12 at this point.....back in the beginning i had it as low as 5
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spunkster:
I'm a little confused about the 0 to -15 degree reading on the intake temp. My frind with an Eclipse GSX gets a reading of 70 degrees (this is a turbo for you non-dsm guys)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The JR relay modifies the intake temps when there is 1psi of boost present because it'll help stabilize the timing across the rev band and increase the pulse width of the injectors just a little. The IAT is really just a thermistor, or temperature dependant resistor. As the temperature increases the resistivity of the IAT decreases. The ECU will sense a lower voltage drop, so it'll think the intake charge is really cold. To compensate for the cold intake charge the ECU gives optimum timing maps and enrichens the injector pulse width. The JR resistor for the typeR kit is too high, that's why its better to replace the resistor w/ a 15 kilo-ohm potentiometer, so you can dial down the amount of fuel introduced at the VTEC crossover. Usually, I think 5K is the best setting but you have to be on the dyno to confirm this.
------------------
Mods
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spunkster:
My timing is at 11 or 12 at this point.....back in the beginning i had it as low as 5<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your timing is pretty low for a water injection equipped SC. Are you running colder plugs?
-
I agree with Zip. H20 Injection allows nearly full timing advance. With the water injection you should be able to run nearly stock timing.
Marc
------------------
Marc
1997 Civic EX
The supercharger is gone. Get ready for the turbo.
My horror story regarding the JRSC is coming soon...
-
yeah one heat range colder plugs. If i rum any more timing i get really bad detonation.
I still havne't doen the TPS relay trick, but have all the stuff to do it. Right now it's the least of my worries.
If i knew i could sell the JRSC quickly and for a good price I'd do it in a heartbeat i think. I'm pretty sure the Zdyne ecu would fix most of my problems, but thats gonna be another $1300
-
In theory i should be able to run stock timing, have 230 hp, get low 13's, get all the hot women, have lots of money...etc
But I live in reality and none of these things are happening.
-
I talked to Spunk on the phone awhile. I'm about 99% sure its his air/fuel ratio thats needs work. Either that of some strange deal that going on. Anyone here know of a good shop for him to go to for engine help. I told him to try Atomic in S. CAL since he's willing to drive far for help. Also anyone here know of a dyno shop that has a air/fuel ratio dyno by him? I'm sure once he has the fuel pressure gauge and some good dyno time his car will start to run good.
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
-
Mike, how about JR?!? Hehehe...he'll end up with 250whp after he visits that dyno. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
-
Ah yes the JR magical dyno....i hear they even hook you up with a supermodel with that dyno
[This message has been edited by Spunkster (edited December 24, 2000).]
-
Those walbro pumps are weak, they can't hang with the high fuel pressures. You should try getting a Bosch inline pump, that could solve your detonation problem on the top end and allow you to run more timing. If you look at the graph for those walbro pumps you'll see that at 100 psi they're pretty much maxed out and that's about where you're at at 5 psi with a 12:1 regulator. if you're interested in a Bosch pump I have one for sale email me.
-
I think we seriously need to have a chat with JR. THey provide a "kit" that cannot do what it promises without massive upgrades. And the upgrades that the offer are not sufficient. Maybe the fuel pump the offer is ok for a smaller engine or a smaller blower, but on an ITR it's just plain crap. When you look at all the turbo kits provide and the Vortech kit provides it makes the JR kit seem like they forgot half the stuff you will actually neeed. I mean come on, i'm running stock boost and just can't get it to do anything without spending another $1000 in extra parts.
-
here here!! I totally agree. I think JR should be fined or somthing for such false advertisment. I'm extreamly pissed about the results. Heck for them to claim 230whp and only get 185whp if your lucky is crazy! Thats a 45+whp difference! The fact is every other teg owner gets good numbers minus the type R. All us type R JRSR owners should get some type of refund or a check written for the full amount to get the car to run to the proper numbers. Heck I followed JR's advice when I got back numbers, and payed TONS of money to test and find the correct solutions. In a way this board is doing more help then JR can. Heck JR's even on this board probally to see what we have discoved, and what solutions we have found. I think if the BTC and some other device they have fix the type R's problem, they should give it to us for free. Actually now that I think of it, JR (Shawn) on this board has admitted to all the problems type R's are having. Yet somehow their stock JR type R is hitting even more insane "numbers". How is this...
Sorry for the flame, but I just hate seeing JR owners soo bad about this. Its really sad watching R owners and other JRSC owners come to this board to realize that their isn't somthing totally wrong. Its just the actual whp the kits put out.
Also on a side note, I love how they claim a huge 100,000miles warrenty when the stupid pulleys wear after 1-2yrs! LoL! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
-
DEJA VU!! Sorry to hear about your troubles, but it sounds like EXACTLY what I encountered. I dyno'd at 178 peak whp; my torque curve looks ok for the most part, but the engine just stopped making any power at and above 7200 rpm. Everyone here says I'm running too rich a/f up top, and I agree. My v-afc went in the other day, and I'm going to the dyno to tune it next week. When I first posted about my problem, a bunch of jrsc itr guys came out of the woodwork, Rboosted at the forefront, with their similar experiences and advice. Don't give up. They've all worked out the problem, and I believe I'm almost there as well.
'00 ITR
jrsc 5.5psi
jr intake
jr btc, 3 clicks, 16 deg. btdc
j&s w/ dual monitor
v-afc
-
Jackson will make sure that they hold their word on the warranty or Moss Motors is going to have a sizable class action suit presented to them. I'll make darn sure of that. And I know that most of you guys would be right on it.
I feel bad for the R guys too... the RS/LS's work OK, the GSR is pretty quick but that horses*!t in the new Velocity about 230hp is unacceptable. If they cannot make a kit for the R, they should cease production until they fix it or let the customer know that he/she has to spend another $1000 to make it run properly.
Let's make sure that Jackson is sending us all the pulleys and other warrantied parts until we reach 99,999 miles on them. And not BSing potential customers.
(steps off podium)
-
Spunkster: have you tried a smaller jet size on the water injection?
**BTW, Moss Motors is especially responsive when it comes to warranty claims on their components. Shawn (MrDetail) is the best! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif I can assure you that they always honor their warranty period.
But I don't know what to say about JR's whp claims about the typeR acheiving 230whp.
------------------
Mods
-
I will post the article tomorow. BTW- If your thinking, oh its hp not whp, WRONG! They actually make a huge deal about JR using whp not hp!! LoL Anyway, have a merry X-Mas! Oh wait its the day after... Oh well, see you in a few hours! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
-
Well Oscar himself talked to my local shop and faxed over a dyno plot that looked similar to mine. I"ts definately running too rich, but getting it fixed properly is the problem. I"m sick and tired of spending money to fix what was advertised as a complete bolt on kit. Now i know why Endyne hasn't released their kit yet and may never do it. I wish now i would have sold the blower when it was off the last time.
But we are going to have to unite and do something about this problem....Maybe if we contacted some of the big magazines with our stories then let them publish it and see what happens then?????
[This message has been edited by Spunkster (edited December 27, 2000).]
-
Another option we could all concider is seeing if the Zdyne ecu really will fix all our problems and if it does then convince Jackson that it should be standard equipment with the kit and make it manditory upgrade at Jacksons expence or we follow through with our other options.
-
Forget Magazines, lets get Lawyers! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
As forthe ECU, well my shop (DSR) is in the process of making this ECU. Hopefully if all goes well I will have it going in Jan. Also Dan (GOD) has a ECU out which will fix this problem. His is similar to what my shop is doing. He was able to get a R from 215 or so whp to 255+whp. I will give you more details as I get it.
As for JR helping us out, well I doubt it. If anything they shoul pay for all the tuning, and parts we bought to fix their problem. I have spent around $1000-1500 just fixing their problems. I also have reciepts to proove this. BTW-thats just labor and tuning. Adding in parts is even more! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
-
Forget Zdyne. Try looking at the LINK Plug-In ECU aka IntegraLink. It is a replacement ECU designed for boosted Honda's. I am getting one for my GS-R early in the new year. I just want to get rid of detonation. It's a few bucks but should fix all your problems without the band-aids like the J&S, etc.
Check out www.carmodifications.com
They do have it for the Type-R.
-
That program is cool, however think of it this way. You have to buyt the unit. I believe the mag. said under $1300. So I figure $around $1000 for the unit. Plus all the add ons that make it worth while, plus the controllers, and also calculate the amount of dyno tuning needed to make it work. I would figure that unit fully tuned will cost around $2000. If you want to pay that, then cool. Killer unit. However I would wait a month or so when more stuff comes out.
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
-
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zip:
Spunkster: have you tried a smaller jet size on the water injection?
**BTW, Moss Motors is especially responsive when it comes to warranty claims on their components. Shawn (MrDetail) is the best! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif I can assure you that they always honor their warranty period.
But I don't know what to say about JR's whp claims about the typeR acheiving 230whp.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shawn is a great guy. He is the only person at Moss who was always courteous to me. His support on this board is appreciated.
I doubt I would be as mad as I am now if I had the opportunity to deal with Shawn instead of Keith.
Marc
-
Wow.
What can I say?
Spunkster: I was the one that called Kwan and faxed him the dyno not Oscar. He and I talked for a little while and he sounded competent and I told him what to do/try to trim up the fuel a little more.
The 'Integralink' prototype is running in our type R right now. Link engineers came over to tune it and we are trying it out. I can't defend the Velocity article. There writers just by looking at the car could see an intake, header, and exhaust. Our car runs the 3.8 Pulley and up to the time the link was installed it ran the BTC as well. I don't know if the R had the link at the time of the article but it does now.
At 8psi, intake, header, exhaust, BTC, VPAK, no water injection, and hours on the dyno that car makes 230HP at the wheels and I have seen others with the same results and more, but we all know that the car in the mag was not a 5.5psi and intake car. I wish Oscar had made that more clear and I wish Velocity took a closer look.
[This message has been edited by mr detail (edited December 28, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by mr detail (edited December 28, 2000).]
-
Hey Shawn. I took agree with Marc that you are one of the very few that is willing to help out and give the truth. Anyway, how is Oscar now claiming 215whp on your site with a stock type R with intake and JRSC? Has Oscar even considered helping us R owners out with all the problems were having?
Also if I can find the letter from Keith from Oscar, he said that JR is in now way to ever support modifing the JRSC's. He blabed on and on about raise boost, computers, etc... are all not recommened or even thought of. Its kinda funny how his R now has all those mods.
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
