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On the US trademark site, Elizabeth comes up two times. The first description just says "dolls, doll clothes, doll accessories", but the second one says something along the lines of "books, booklets, and other publishings about history and pertaining to such" Another big clue that Elizabeth is probably Felicity's best friend!
Yup, I think someone already posted that. Which is why it'd be really wrong if she ends up not being Felicity's friend.
I just thought of something. If it is Lissie's best friend, what are they going to do for her bed? Nellie and Samantha can share because they live together and share a room, but Elizabeth and Felicity don't. Do you think they'd just overlook that or do you suppose she'd get her own bed?
It would be pretty hard to get both Samantha and Nellie in Sam's bed; there isn't room. If you really wanted a bed for Nellie, you'd have to buy another one from somewhere or make one
You can usaully tell what line these things belong to. The first way of telling the lines apart is if the printed materials (books, newsletter, ect) trademark says history it is a AGC historical or a GOML. Of course we don't have to worry about GOML anymore, but back in the day you could tell the difference between the historicals and GOMLs because the historicals description would say American history and GOML said foreign or some thing like that. Also the names for GOMLs were usally foreign sounding. If the trade mark doesn't say history than it's ether a AGT LE or a HSH. Aren't abreviations great? [img]wink.gif[/img]
Samantha's bed is from when she live in Mt. Bedford, when she didn't live with Nellie. You can see the one from New York on the cover of Nellie's promise. It is like the one Sam has now but the comforter is pink.
<font color="#051E50"><font size="1">[ October 01, 2004 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Felicityexpert ]</font></font>
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 02, 2004 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Felicityexpert ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, they do fit together in it. I have them in it right now. They are such sleepy heads!Quote:
Originally posted by Ann, Samantha fan:
It would be pretty hard to get both Samantha and Nellie in Sam's bed; there isn't room. If you really wanted a bed for Nellie, you'd have to buy another one from somewhere or make one
so do I.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I realize you probably aren't meaning to be rude, but that's how I feel you are being. I'm not a dummy, I read the books and love them too. In the story it sounds like they share a bed. On page 37: "Sometimes Nellie did the fluttery-arm dance on their bed and Samantha laughed so hard she had to bury her face in her pillow." Plus the illustration shows them in a bed together that has a white comforter. It's a silver bed though. But I don't think it matters really what the pictures show, since they have Nellie in a nightgown like Samantha's but with blue ribbons and AG made pjs for Nellie that aren't depicted.Quote:
Originally posted by Felicityexpert:
Samantha's bed is from when she live in Mt. Bedford, when she didn't live with Nellie. You can see the one from New York on the cover of Nellie's promise. It is like the one Sam has now but the comforter is pink. So not only am I an expert in Felicitoledgy (I made that up) but I know quite a bit about Sam. When I took the Samantha quiz on the AG movie site my results were "you know enough about Samantha to be her best friend. Whats your favorite scene in her books? will it be in the movie?
I do well in all AG trivia exept Kaya because A) I've hardly read her books and B)They always ask you to defince Nez Pierce words.
<font color="#051E50"><font size="1">[ October 01, 2004 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Felicityexpert ]</font></font>
It's great that you love the girls and know a lot about them, but please realize that others here do as well.
Wait a minute, wait a minute....isn't there a GoML named Elizabeth? Or is this a brand new trademark? I would be extremely surprised if they were going to make Lissie's best friend...thrilled, naturally, but totally shocked.
-Angela
Yes, the trademark is a new one. It was filed September 14, 2004.
And here are a couple quotes on the types of products: "G & S: CHILDREN'S PUBLICATIONS, NAMELY BOOKS, BOOKLETS AND NEWSLETTERS FEATURING FICTIONAL AND NON-FICTIONAL STORIES OF AMERICAN HISTORY AND EVENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY AND OTHER GOODS IN THIS CLASS"
"G & S: DOLLS, DOLL CLOTHING AND DOLL ACCESSORIES"
Oops! My bad- you're right, her name is Isabel. Good to know I didn't solve the mystery with a disappointing answer after all. [img]smile.gif[/img]
-Angela
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow--I looked at just one doll lying the bed and couldn't figure out how you would get two in!Quote:
Originally posted by littledarling:
Actually, they do fit together in it. I have them in it right now. They are such sleepy heads!
I was super-skeptical about this being Felicity's Elizabeth, but the more people talk about it the more intriguing it sounds. Don't forget, those of you who check the filings, that American Girl usually trademarks the entire name. Maybe that will offer a clue as soon as they do that. I might check the site and see how soon after filing "Nellie" they added her last name (if I do, I'll add it on here). Anyone know/remember what Elizabeth's last name is?
Aw, shucks. That didn't work...
"Nellie" was filed October 8, 2003
"Nellie O'Malley" was filed October 8, 2003 as well.
It seems odd to me that if this is Elizabeth that her last name hasn't been filed for trademark as well, since Nellie's was. But this could point to nothin'.
Elizabeth's last name is Cole.
Thanks! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] That will be great to use to look some more. It could be they're just trying to keep it a secret for now by not filing a last name. (Right now it's not there.)
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 02, 2004 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>
Could it be that both Elizabeth and Elizabeth Cole were filed at the same time but only Elizabeth cleared and thus is on the site? I don't know much about how trademarks work. Maybe Elizabeth Cole could show up with the same file date once it goes through? Or is the file date always the date they appear on the site?
I have a feeling that Elizabeth is most likley Lissie's friend. Since they have really have head forward with the best friends since the popularty of Nellie (like anyone had any doubt) Mattel like when things are easy and sell more what a great idea to do friends and renew intrest in the older doll instead of making new ones. I think Mattel's first idea was to end the older dolls and introduce new ones that didn't work due to the uprising of Lissie so what to do the friends were the idea. New books and prime marketing.
I think you're right, Nellie Girl. It would be so easy for them to get the friends lines going...not as much expense involved as creating a whole new historical doll.
Someone stated in another post that Lissie is the third highest selling doll at AGPNY, and I would think that means much to Mattel.
I am really, really hoping this works out. To be able to own Elizabeth, and more of the early American fashions, would be a dream come true!!!!
Well, I guess we will have to wait til Elizabeth is out, as they had informed me at AGP, the next Historical doll will come out in 2 years. But I am also thinking that they are bringing Elizabeth out because to lift the sales in the Lissie line.
But if they also do this for all the dolls that will be you need to own like 16 Historicals! instead of 8! And all those clothes and accessories!!! that going to go [img]graemlins/money.gif[/img] ka-ching! for Mattel.
I wish they brought Ruthie out! She is my favorite from the friends collection! lol!
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 03, 2004 10:37 AM: Message edited by: AGTeacher ]</font>
Even though for Mattel, the bottom line is more money, it's VERY nice to see them re-committing themselves to the Historical line.
Oooh, it would be wonderful if they made Felicity's Elizabeth... her character was so charming/easy to identify with, and I'd love to see another colonial costume.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but is it possible AG trademarked this just for safekeeping, and may let the idea die?? Hasn't AG done this before with other names, or was that something else?
I really hope she gets made... Felicity really would have the grand re-entrance then!
Purely from my observations, at AGPNY, Felicity is doing well despite her measly display. I see lots of girls carrying Felicity around, and people always take a look at her display. I've even seen people carrying a new Felicity in a box...so hopefully she is doing well. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
I really do hope that Elizabeth is Felicity's friend too. I would love to see the "best friends" line continue, especially if it ever gets around to my favorite doll, Molly.
This is only a thought, but Felicity may be so popular at AGPNY due to the rich, colonial history of the region. I have never been to an AG Place, but I would imagine that it is possible that Kirsten might have a stronger pull in Chicago for the same reason.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The measly display reminded me of something. My husband got a friend of his to go to AG Place to get me Felicity's undergarments for my birthday (they weren't on line yet). He looked and looked, but couldn't find them. There was no display and no boxes out. Finally he asked for help, and a sales person got the undergarments for him. Now he was afraid that the sales person was going to think he was some weird fetishist if he just bought the underwear, so he quickly thought of what else he could get to make it look like he was shopping for a child and not for himself. He ended up buying Coconut, in his opinion the most little kid thing in the store, and gave it to my daughter. He told my husband that he doesn't mind running AG errands for him, just no more doll underwear.Quote:
Originally posted by AG*dancer*:
. . . at AGPNY, Felicity is doing well despite her measly display. :
LOL!!! Cute story!
[quote]Originally posted by Felicityexpert:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I got some good ones last Feb. I waited for the crowds to thin out when people went into the theatre or cafe. Check the link in my sig.Quote:
There aren't many pictures of AGPNY because it is too crowded to take good ones..
LOL @ the story of Felicity's underwear.
I have only been to the Chicago AGP, and both times it was crowded with people (despite being a weekday and weeknight when I was there), so I'm surprised that AGPNY is way ahead of AGPC- I can't imagine! They must be doing really, really, incredible over there in NY! The last time I was at AGPC was the last time I was in Chicago, July 2003, and I remember spending the afternoon shopping on Michigan Avenue and there were sooo many people carrying AGP shopping bags. Marshall Fields used to be the shopping bag everyone carried around (they are probably the most well-known department store in Chicago/the midwest) but I would say that when I was in Chicago in 2003, judging by the shopping bags people were carrying around, AGP was easily the most popular store downtown. So, no worries for Chicago. I don't really remember the displays very well but when I was there I remember seeing a lot of Josephinas and Kits being carried around. I wouldn't say Kirsten is any more or less popular in the Midwest than elsewhere, but that's just IMHO.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That could be true, but from what I've been noticing they aren't exactly considering Nellie to be a new historical girl. She's more of an extension of Samantha's line. So they could add Elizabeth (if it's the one we're hoping it is) sooner.Quote:
Originally posted by AGTeacher:
Well, I guess we will have to wait til Elizabeth is out, as they had informed me at AGP, the next Historical doll will come out in 2 years. <font color="#051E50"><font size="1">[ October 03, 2004 10:37 AM: Message edited by: AGTeacher ]</font></font>
There is also a trademark for a Rebecca (filed January 16, 2004) and that might be the new historical girl that is due in two years. Her trademark has more items listed ("G & S: CHILDREN'S PUBLICATIONS, NAMELY, BOOKS AND BOOKLETS FEATURING FICTIONAL AND NON-FICTIONAL STORIES OF AMERICAN HISTORY AND EVENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY, AND MAPS, POSTCARDS, POSTERS, BOOKMARKS, TRADING CARDS, ACTIVITY AND CRAFT BOOKS, AND STATIONERY SETS COMPRISED OF STATIONERY, ENVELOPES, NOTES CARDS, AND STICKERS") So it doesn't look like she'd be at the same level as Elizabeth. I don't remember any of the girls having a best fiend named Rebecca either. But like someone else said, AG sometimes lets trademarks die without anything coming of them. So I guess we can't (or rather, shouldn't) get too excited until it looks more definite. But I don't think I'm going to be able to help that, lol.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Could it also be that Cole is already trademarked or something like that? Has anyone ever noticed that Samantha does not have TM or R after her first name? Samantha Parkington does, but not Samantha by itself. The other girls' first names are registered.Quote:
Originally posted by SarahS:
Could it be that both Elizabeth and Elizabeth Cole were filed at the same time but only Elizabeth cleared and thus is on the site? I don't know much about how trademarks work. Maybe Elizabeth Cole could show up with the same file date once it goes through? Or is the file date always the date they appear on the site?
I was just checking in on the board one more time before getting my tired self to bed, and Ubarose's story is giving me such a great laugh . . . I can just imagine!
It's fun to dream about Elizabeth being Felicity's friend, and great to think it could really happen. And all this talk of Felicity has me wanting to buy a new one to go with my pre-Mattel Felicity!
[quote]Originally posted by AnneMarie:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good thinking, but "Elizabeth Cole" did not show up in a search. Cole may be trademarked, but they could still reserve both names together.Quote:
Could it also be that Cole is already trademarked or something like that? Has anyone ever noticed that Samantha does not have TM or R after her first name? Samantha Parkington does, but not Samantha by itself. The other girls' first names are registered.
"Samantha" is trademarked for certain things, like the movie, girls' nightgowns, online quizzes, etc. The movie trademark application is dated 11/13/03. Does anyone remember when we found out about the movie? Maybe we should look at those a little closer from now on. [img]wink.gif[/img] (No sleuthing symbol?)
Editing to add that I just found who has "Samantha" for dolls and accessories: Uneeda Doll, Inc. Wonder if AG has tried to buy it from them? Only thing I've ever seen by Uneeda is pets for the dolls that are listed on eBay.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 04, 2004 10:45 PM: Message edited by: OSusannah ]</font>
Nope, no Cole, except for cigarettes, medical instruments, car repair, tape measures, stuffed animals, bicycles, leather jackets, banjos, locks, dolls and doll accessories (unfortunately, from a company called Excite in the eighties), pocket knives, swimsuits, metal signs, medicine, furniture, and plant fertilizer. What in the world is Valerie Tripp writing about?!?! [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]
I don't think they would trademark them separately, because then her name would be written as ElizabethTM ColeTM. But it was a good thought!
This doesn't mean anything, though. It could still be Elizabeth. But to me it just seems odd that they didn't trademark the entire name as one, and it makes me wonder if Tasha/Rebekah/Elizabeth are all the same doll. I guess we'll find out some time! [img]smile.gif[/img] If Rebekah becomes dead or abandoned at some point, I'd pretty much bank on it. As long as Rebekah stays live, it seems this would be Elizabeth Cole, because I don't think they would be working on two full-fledged historical dolls so close to one another.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 04, 2004 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>
Melissa, I think they may have changed Rebekah to Rebecca. They have both names filed for but I just can't imagine them releasing two dolls with basically the same name. And both of the dolls are registered for more items than Elizabeth is, so I think that'd indicate that Elizabeth isn't going to be the same type of historical doll.
Rebekah filing says that it was published for opposition on September 21st, 2004. Just thought I'd mention that, I'm looking at the trademarks now and just happened to notice that. I don't understand much about how trademark filings work, but if they were going to abandon it, wouldn't they have done it already? It was filed December 10, 2003.
It looks like they had a lot more planned for GOML. The listing I just saw for it had posters, calendars, bookmarks, stationary sets, craft books, dolls, doll accessories and stuffed toys listed. It says the trademark has been abandoned though.
I should be getting to bed [img]graemlins/sleepy.gif[/img] , but this is fun! lol.
Oh, I just saw a listing for doll named Keitra. It was filed in August 2002, published in June 2003 but abandoned in March 2004. Well, that kills my theory of them abandoning trademarks before the publication for opposition if they weren't going to use them.
I'm pretty sure Tasha was live for a pretty long time before it became "dead." So I don't know that that's an indicator.
But I also think it's pointing to Elizabeth now, after thinking it would be odd for them to have two full-fledged historical dolls in the works at the same time. I think watching Rebecca/Rebekah and seeing if it stays live will be a good hint about who Elizabeth is.
It *is* fun to watch and look! My only disappointment is that they switched trademark attorneys and it's harder to look things up now since this other attorney works for many companies. [img]frown.gif[/img] Their previous trademark attorney apparently only worked for them, and I searched for things under her name.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 04, 2004 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>
I just came across two listings for Coconut, both abandoned. And I just saw a listing for Kaya that has been abandoned. Then one for Hallie (doll and access) that has been abandoned, but another for Hallie(books)that is still live. This is weird.
Just saw three more for Kaya, one dead and two live.
Does anyone know more about trademarks?
Editing to add: Felicity was abandoned? I just came across a filing from 1990 that was abandoned in early 1991. I wonder why that was. They sure have abandoned several dolls. There was one named Luisa (and Maria Luisa) in 1996, do you suppose that became Josefina? Josefina was released in 1997, right? From looking at some of their dead trademark filings, they sure had some neat ideas that I either missed out on or never became reality!
I'd really better tear myself away now or I'll be sleeping through my classes. Night everyone.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 05, 2004 12:11 AM: Message edited by: littledarling ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, the dolls have to be in development for so long, I wouldn't doubt they'd be thinking about two at the same time. But, if Elizabeth is a friend doll, then it wouldn't be odd at all for them to be working on both Elizabeth and Rebecca (if she's a full-fledged historical).Quote:
Originally posted by Melissa:
But I also think it's pointing to Elizabeth now, after thinking it would be odd for them to have two full-fledged historical dolls in the works at the same time.
That would be GREAT if AG made Elizabeth! If that evntually happens, I am digging in the dirt for change. Lessie MUST have her best friend, plain and simple. [img]wink.gif[/img] No two ways about it. Hehehe
LOL about the Lessie underware story!
I think Word just has a really hard time with proper names. [img]wink.gif[/img] The last names seem to be real last names. If you go on google and type in names like McIntire, Montoya, Parkington, Larson, etc. you'll get a lot of people's real names.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ October 05, 2004 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>
Elizabeth as a book prospect sounds like an interesting idea. For one thing her future is uncertain. She has only been in Virginia a short time. Will she stay in Williamsburg? Go to New York or go back to England? Could something happen ( like a meeting with a real historical figure) to make her father change his mind about loyalty to the King.
Harriet would have visual appeal as a doll but lack it as a person. Her relationship to Addy verges on the Nellie Olsen- Laura Ingalls situation in the Little House books.
The friends if the other historical dolls are not that different from the main characters . It would take more work for AG to create books about them.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wouldn't it be strange, though, if they made an Elizabeth doll that WASN'T Felicity's friend? It would be confusing to people who know Felicity's books for there to be a doll by the same name that's not her "friend". It seems very possible that they could abandon the Elizabeth trademark, but I'd be surprised if they changed Rebekah/Rebecca to Elizabeth! [img]redface.gif[/img] I hope, hope, hope it really is Elizabeth Cole! *crosses fingers* [img]smile.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by Melissa:
But to me it just seems odd that they didn't trademark the entire name as one, and it makes me wonder if Tasha/Rebekah/Elizabeth are all the same doll. I guess we'll find out some time! [img]smile.gif[/img] If Rebekah becomes dead or abandoned at some point, I'd pretty much bank on it. As long as Rebekah stays live, it seems this would be Elizabeth Cole.