Bought the DVD for around $9 today at Wal Mart and am utterly mesmerized after just finishing watching it. [img]eek.gif[/img]
What did everyone else think?
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Bought the DVD for around $9 today at Wal Mart and am utterly mesmerized after just finishing watching it. [img]eek.gif[/img]
What did everyone else think?
Go get Farhenheit 9/11, now! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
it's more fact-based and somewhat less humour, but, it's even better, in a way, just go get it! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I was going to get F911, but I only had the money for Columbine. [img]wink.gif[/img]
I'll get it eventually.
Micheal Moore is a brilliant genius, and a true brave person that tells it in the face of those patriotic fanboys who are always too scared to smell their own sh!t.
Michael Moore was just added to my People to Meet list.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Explain to me what a "patriotic fanboy" is? I, personally, don't believe half of what Moore has to say, nor do I believe half of what the Bush administration says. Both have their own agendas and will spin anything to fit that agenda.Quote:
Originally posted by Chosen One:
Micheal Moore is a brilliant genius, and a true brave person that tells it in the face of those patriotic fanboys who are always too scared to smell their own sh!t.
you're an example of a small case of "patriotic fanboy-itis" nothign against you, just, that's what super-patriot americans will say, hell, if he said that stuff about Canada, I'd probably deny it, but, it could be true [img]wink.gif[/img]
Moore makes some very good points. Unfortunately, he is so manipulative about it that it invalidates them for a lot of people. The man should be a bit more responisble about the information he's presenting. I'd hate to see someone get turned off by Moore's childish manipulation techniques and vote for bush....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Explain to me what a "patriotic fanboy" is? I, personally, don't believe half of what Moore has to say, nor do I believe half of what the Bush administration says. Both have their own agendas and will spin anything to fit that agenda.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm just patriotic. You don't like, feck off.Quote:
Originally posted by Bud E. Lee:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chosen One:
Micheal Moore is a brilliant genius, and a true brave person that tells it in the face of those patriotic fanboys who are always too scared to smell their own sh!t.
My country makes mistakes, but so do ALL of us. If I had to give a percentage, I'd say 80% of the time, we do good. That's not bad when compared to other countries.
I agree with what 316what said.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying Super-patriotic Americans, whatever those are, just discount Moore and fall for everything Bush has to say?Quote:
Originally posted by toymank:
you're an example of a small case of "patriotic fanboy-itis" nothign against you, just, that's what super-patriot americans will say, hell, if he said that stuff about Canada, I'd probably deny it, but, it could be true [img]wink.gif[/img]
And please explain to me how I'm an example of small case super-patriotic fanboyitis? Simple statements without any substance make no sense.
Moore does not care one way or the other about this patriotic shit. He's out to make a buck over the ignorance of most people. And you can see that only ignorant people appreciate his "genius".
here is what you should do, download his movie, or buy it if you arent a pirate like me... ARGHHH... anyways, and then research what he says if it's true or not, that's what most people do, but alot of people just believe the first and most convenient source they hear, i used to be one of them [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote:
If I give a shit, you'll be the first person to receive it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i'd like mine with lettuce and tomatoe please!Quote:
Originally posted by ?EQ?:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I give a shit, you'll be the first person to receive it.
I think it's a piece of shit, as is Michael Moore.
Don't believe everything you see....
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
wow moore is just a blubbering cash cow/whore/hoebag
oh wait i already knew that
<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ October 09, 2004 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Danathor ]</font>
I have to say it every time I see someone talking about this movie. Those Canadian teenagers were fricken SO stupid!! [img]mad.gif[/img]
Michael Moore spins things and is manipulative-- that's what documentary makers do!
One of the first things you learn in a documentary filmmaking class is that no matter how much "truth" you want to inject or portray in your film, it's still going to be tainted. It may be the truth, but it's the filmmaker's truth.
A documentary, like any other creation, is at the mercy of its creator... if they're biased, their art will be biased, too.
I classify Michael Moore in a category of person alongside people like Quentin Tarantino and Bill Maher: those whose work I can appreciate, but would never wish to speak or spend time with, as I find them grating.
That said, Bowling for Columbine is a great, well-made film. It's funny, it's serious, but doesn't take itself seriously, and it's thought-provoking. It's the kind of movie I watch and am inspired to make movies, and my filmmaker friends agree.
However, when Moore targets somebody (like Dubya), he lets his distaste for them get in the way of making a good documentary. He gets carried away with his vendetta (again, like Dubya) and can't show things objectively. His venom is hard to sit and watch at times.
Take the target out of the equation and replace it with social commentary, and you have his better films, like Roger & Me, his portrayal of what the auto industry shutting down in Michigan did to the community.
More than anything, I think Moore does his best work simply by getting people interested in politics; blue collar folks like my dad, who never really gave a shit about politics until Dubya came into office. It doesn't matter if people start to research politics to DISprove what Moore has to say, as long as they get involved with what's going on around them.
Like him or not, Michael Moore is an important figure in our culture right now, if just for all the people he got interested in the political climate of our country.
But let's not throw around the word "genius" so liberally, now.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-signed, they were noobs in the art of ditching, try successfully pulling off a death in the family excuse with people who are good friend's with your parents present!Quote:
Originally posted by Shypappette:
I have to say it every time I see someone talking about this movie. Those Canadian teenagers were fricken SO stupid!! [img]mad.gif[/img]
Moore does what the media does - tries to get the audience to feel the way they/he does by careful editing/manipulating of data, images and sound.
Want more? Read the book entitled "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man" by David T. Hardy, Jason Clarke.
He's a hypocrite... and does exactly what he accuses politicians of doing... and that is lying to his supporters, and making money off it.
I didn't mean to offend anyone directly with the term "patriotic fanboys".
For me a patriotic fanboy is someone that doesn't want to admit it's own government has and is doing errors, or is flawed into corruption.
As too why I like M. Moore, is simply because he is doing what the governmental controlled media is not doing, telling the other side of the story.
Is he doing it for money? Probable is, then again aren't we all doing something for money. At least he is telling the other side of the coin, like most media people should be doing about their own governments.
Is he telling the truth? That is all about opinions, but I'll rather stick to M. Moore stories, and his presented obvious facts and links of the people in power rather than your president's word.
And EQ, please in future do not use qoutes like "You don't like, feck off." with me. I never stated anything directly against your own patriotism and we're all friends here. [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ October 10, 2004 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Chosen One ]</font>
Ok Chosen One. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
BTW, feck off anyway. [img]wink.gif[/img]
http://kisielka.com/MessageBoardDooDads/groovy20.gif
<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ October 10, 2004 09:02 AM: Message edited by: ?EQ? ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying Super-patriotic Americans, whatever those are, just discount Moore and fall for everything Bush has to say?Quote:
Originally posted by Bud E. Lee:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by toymank:
you're an example of a small case of "patriotic fanboy-itis" nothign against you, just, that's what super-patriot americans will say, hell, if he said that stuff about Canada, I'd probably deny it, but, it could be true [img]wink.gif[/img]
And please explain to me how I'm an example of small case super-patriotic fanboyitis? Simple statements without any substance make no sense.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">....
I said a small case because you're at least not, saying "oh moore is a total liar and an idiot I hate him Bush is good, yay America boo Iraq" or something like that, I also said NO OFFENSE and you obviously didn't read my entire post where I said I'd probably do the same if it was about myu country, it has alot to do with blind patriotism, or something, at least you're one of the good people who admit Bush is a fuck-up, at least somewhat
gotta love these politics threads! (Im really going nowhere, so ignore what I said, but for the record, I hate Bush)
<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ October 10, 2004 10:23 AM: Message edited by: toymank ]</font>
Nah, I read it, just didn't understand why you consider me a small case. And there was no offense taken. My patriotism however has nothing to do with the current state of affairs and is far from any type of fanboy patriotism. I don't do what I do for a living because it's the cool thing to do these days.
And instead of patriotic fanboys, I prefer the term 9/11 Patriots.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">while that's arguable, moore is flat out misrepresenting things. The way he presenting acquiring the guns at the gun store was a flat out lie to the viewers.Quote:
Originally posted by White Line Nightmare:
Michael Moore spins things and is manipulative-- that's what documentary makers do!
.
That's not just putting a spin on thing or presenting things in a certain light. that's lying.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who controls majority of the US media again? You are just plain naive.Quote:
Originally posted by Chosen One:
I didn't mean to offend anyone directly with the term "patriotic fanboys".
For me a patriotic fanboy is someone that doesn't want to admit it's own government has and is doing errors, or is flawed into corruption.
As too why I like M. Moore, is simply because he is doing what the governmental controlled media is not doing, telling the other side of the story.
Is he doing it for money? Probable is, then again aren't we all doing something for money. At least he is telling the other side of the coin, like most media people should be doing about their own governments.
Is he telling the truth? That is all about opinions, but I'll rather stick to M. Moore stories, and his presented obvious facts and links of the people in power rather than your president's word.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm hoping "your president" means you don't live in the US.... there's too many short-sighted, naive, take anything at face value people here already...Quote:
Originally posted by Chosen One:
Is he telling the truth? That is all about opinions, but I'll rather stick to M. Moore stories, and his presented obvious facts and links of the people in power rather than your president's word.
the truth is somewhere in between what moore says and what bush says... don't be an extremist [img]smile.gif[/img]
i refuse to take whatever both extremes say at face value, michael moore has admitted to manipulating facts in his movies, bush well any political party is going to lie their ass off for support, but there is also a smidgin' of truth in there
Look, I don't want to get into a political debate, here on a toy board.. Chosen one, I like a lot of what you have to say here in general, but with all respect, I believe you've bought the Michael Moore lie hook, line, and sinker. Michael Moore can no longer even say that his film 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is a "documentary". He has to claim that it is "His vision". Why? Because from what I've seen and read , his covers have been yanked, in a major way.
He's a genius when it comes to hype, propaganda, and basic bullshit. So is Madonna,
as was Gobbels (Hitler's propagandist) and the "Reverend" Jim Jones.
Why do you think the French love him?? He puts down America.
Look , I KNOW that we are far from perfect , but when a leftist film maker has to splice and dice his "documentary" footage to spin it into his vision, he becomes no more than a left wing version of a far right TV preacher who quotes the bible out of context to get his point across.
That hardly qualifies as "genius" other than being really good at "Baffling them with bullshit". That really doesn't qualify as true talent, or wisdom in my book. Actually, I should correct myself here, he's not even a genius at
bullshit, otherwise he wouldn't have been exposed over and over as the charlatan he is.
There is a film out that I plan to watch called 'Fahrenhype 9/11' in tandem
with 'Fahrenheit 9/11' this week. We're going to sit down with our coffee and enjoy the contrast.
I challenge everyone who is a fan of
Moore's film making to sit and do the same and decide for yourselves whether or not Michael Moore is the genius you feel he is or if you have been duped. BTW regarding being a " Patriotic fanboy" I plan to use this as a learning experience too, because as a true patriot, I believe in having the courage to admit when I've been duped, and to fight for real change (whatever that may be at the time) to improve the state of affairs in my country.
Peace out.
http://www.fremto.com/coverCAPA021.jpg
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can argue what you like, Jor, but I'm telling you what I was taught in my documentary filmmaking class. It's one of the very first things you learn-- no documentary is 100% truthful.Quote:
Originally posted by Joranthalus:
while that's arguable, moore is flat out misrepresenting things. The way he presenting acquiring the guns at the gun store was a flat out lie to the viewers.
It starts on day one of shooting: the FILMMAKER chooses what to shoot, what narrative techniques they'll use, how editing will strengthen their argument, etc., so what should be an objective depiction of a topic becomes subjective rather quickly.
I'm sure Moore lies-- doesn't everybody? That's not a defense, but just as I'm sure Moore lies in his films, he also tells the truth. Remember, he's in show business, and he has to entertain (it's one of the best ways to sneak in education). If he has to resort to lying, that's his business, but he IS making a movie, so there might be more leeway, ethically speaking.
My dad used to tell me something as a little boy, and I'll share it with you now:
"Don't believe what you hear or half of what you see."
That applies to life in general, and Michael Moore especially.
<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ October 10, 2004 03:14 PM: Message edited by: White Line Nightmare ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote:
For me a patriotic fanboy is someone that doesn't want to admit it's own government has and is doing errors, or is flawed into corruption.
fact: this country has freed more oppressed people around the world than all other countries combined!
...I don't know about you, but I feel pretty damn good about that.
fact: no, we're not perfect.
...not everyone is going to like what we do, but that's usually our enemies.
fact: but, we try pretty hard at it. Which is a lot more than anyone else on this crummy planet does!
...who else has sent trillions of dollars around the globe to help the needy? The French? The Germans? The Russians? The Chinese? The Martians?
..."you can't handle the truth!" [img]tongue.gif[/img]
fact: MM is an asshole and I'm not talkin' about Mickey Mouse, either!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can argue what you like, Jor, but I'm telling you what I was taught in my documentary filmmaking class. It's one of the very first things you learn-- no documentary is 100% truthful.Quote:
Originally posted by White Line Nightmare:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joranthalus:
while that's arguable, moore is flat out misrepresenting things. The way he presenting acquiring the guns at the gun store was a flat out lie to the viewers.
It starts on day one of shooting: the FILMMAKER chooses what to shoot, what narrative techniques they'll use, how editing will strengthen their argument, etc., so what should be an objective depiction of a topic becomes subjective rather quickly.
I'm sure Moore lies-- doesn't everybody? That's not a defense, but just as I'm sure Moore lies in his films, he also tells the truth. Remember, he's in show business, and he has to entertain (it's one of the best ways to sneak in education). If he has to resort to lying, that's his business, but he IS making a movie, so there might be more leeway, ethically speaking.
My dad used to tell me something as a little boy, and I'll share it with you now:
"Don't believe what you hear or half of what you see."
That applies to life in general, and Michael Moore especially.
<font color="#cd6600"><font size="1">[ October 10, 2004 03:14 PM: Message edited by: White Line Nightmare ]</font></font></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">please don't cndescend. It insults you more than it insults me. I have also taken many film classes and i guess my teachers just had more of a clue than yours.
doc?u?men?ta?ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.
If i make a "documentary" showing mickey mouse entering the twin towers with a box labeled "tnt", and then cut to a scene of the towers falling, it's no longer a documentary.
You can argue what you like, but at that point it's either fiction or a lie. Why do you think Moore is no longer even calling it a documentary?
<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ October 10, 2004 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Joranthalus ]</font>
Michael Moore will never let a little thing like the truth interfere with his "argument," his films, or, rather, his show.
He's an entertainer, and my goodness, does he ever deliver.
Jor, I apologize if my post sounded condescending. In the past, we've never had a problem with each other on this or any other board, and I'd like to keep it that way (if that's okay with you). Cool?
We shouldn't let someone like Michael Moore disturb what has, generally speaking, been a relatively peaceful community.
no prob here, WLN. I meant that in more of an exasperated kinda way instead of angry anyway [img]smile.gif[/img]
I'm just saying that moore is not a documentary film-maker. So he needs to either stop calling himself that, or make sure his films stay more objective. Personally, i think he does more harm than good... And getting people to not elect bush again would normally be a good thing [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No disagreement here.Quote:
Originally posted by Joranthalus:
I'm just saying that moore is not a documentary film-maker. So he needs to either stop calling himself that, or make sure his films stay more objective. Personally, i think he does more harm than good... And getting people to not elect bush again would normally be a good thing [img]wink.gif[/img]
He's not in a class of documentary filmmaker like Errol Morris, who manages to make good, well-made, humorous films without out-and-out attacks, or pandering. He prefers to let his subjects dig their own graves with their own words.
For all his "Gee whiz, aw shucks" midwestern, blue collar demeanor, Michael Moore is a multi-millionaire, a Hollywood player who makes entertainment. His documentaries are as realistic as reality TV.
I guess sometimes the truth ain't so entertaining.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]tongue.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by StV:
fact: this country has freed more oppressed people around the world than all other countries combined!
yeah, but you forget to mention that the US oppressed them to begin with...
fact: no, we're not perfect.
...not everyone is going to like what we do, but that's usually our enemies.
doing whatever you please, regardless of anyone else's opinions is generally a great way to MAKE enemies.
...who else has sent trillions of dollars around the globe to help the needy? The French? The Germans? The Russians? The Chinese? The Martians?
after having caused the need for said money. starved any foreigners lately?
fact: MM is an asshole and I'm not talkin' about Mickey Mouse, either!
well, I can't argue with that...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm hoping "your president" means you don't live in the US.... there's too many short-sighted, naive, take anything at face value people here already...Quote:
Originally posted by Joranthalus:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chosen One:
Is he telling the truth? That is all about opinions, but I'll rather stick to M. Moore stories, and his presented obvious facts and links of the people in power rather than your president's word.
the truth is somewhere in between what moore says and what bush says... don't be an extremist [img]smile.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jor, I'm against any and all governments [img]wink.gif[/img] , I stated 'your' president as an example. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Darth Pooh, did I buy into M.Moore's story, maybe I did. But my point remains that there should be more of him that will have the balls to speak of the other side of the coin in all countries. Although your point is still well taken from my side.
There are elements that I cannot reveal from my personal experiences, and they will only go publically as far as for me to state that I am solely against all governments. They really do hide alot. [img]wink.gif[/img]