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Check out this link from Honda-tech in which an individual conceived the idea of hooking up the VAFC to the OE MAP sensor for his FI Honda. Very innovative!
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=75967
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Innovator of the JRSC electronic boost controller
Mods
That man has 2 things:
1. Big Balls!
2. Brains!
Wow.....I would have NEVER thought of doing that.
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95 Hybrid w/SC'd JDM B16
I saw that...that is some pretty sweet shit!
On a dyno it can probably do wonders..and for such a low price! AFC costs around $300 and 440cc injectors are what...$300? So a nice fuel managment setup for $300...no need to worry about FMUs and bigger fuel pumps.
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1997 HX Civic
B20Z2 All Motor non-VTEC
13.77 @ 98.11 MPH
AFC for $300 + J&S Ultra = $500-$700, seems your in the ballpark for an entry level Hondata (which also needs the same big injectors). Or am I missing something ? Its nice to see innovation in the market, somebody explain the economics to me.
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total sleeper
JRSC M62 @ 6psi, Kamikaze + 2.5" cat-back, J&S Classic, T.O.O catch can, etc.
10 psi coming soon
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LS Avenger:
AFC for $300 + J&S Ultra = $500-$700, seems your in the ballpark for an entry level Hondata (which also needs the same big injectors). Or am I missing something ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't forget to add tuning costs and adjustability. The 2B option can't let you adjust any fuel/timing related parameters unless you go to a 4B dealer or individual. So this method is a good alternative if you like to try different mods to your FI setup. All P28 setups don't even have reactive knock control like a J&S setup.
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Innovator of the JRSC electronic boost controller
Mods
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zip:
Don't forget to add tuning costs and adjustability. The 2B option can't let you adjust any fuel/timing related parameters unless you go to a 4B dealer or individual. So this method is a good alternative if you like to try different mods to your FI setup. All P28 setups don't even have reactive knock control like a J&S setup.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Also--don't forget this hack is a godsend for people that *already own* a V-AFC and want to boost without getting stuff like an FMU and/or standalone ECU.
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99 Prelude SH
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The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by little ones and zeros, little bits of data---it's all just electrons.
This is quite innovative Dbman96...
I am very impressed with your preliminary results.
Congratulations for taking the road less traveled... and creating a new path for any of us who choose to follow.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
Big Balls + Brains = Stud http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
That was a very studly move! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Sonny
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Sonny Van Hook ([email protected])
2000 JRSC'd Civic Si @ 6psi (Powered by Hondata)
1999 Tonykart/Honda 125cc Shifter (in the works)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HX_Guy:
Hey I have a question on this.
Now...how do you make that add fuel?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It'll make the VAFC a boost dependant fuel controller to enrich fuel per rpm. It's similar to adding fuel per rpm in boost tables of a standalone but the VAFC will use more interpolation.
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Innovator of the JRSC electronic boost controller
Mods
[This message has been edited by zip (edited October 12, 2001).]
Muahahahah.. Now people are starting to get the right idea. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm working on something that should be even better & cheaper than this - will post details tonight..
Richard
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98 GSR driven everywhere.
Akimoto intake, MSD 6a, Magnecor 8.5mm, Autometer A/F,Boost,F/P, B&M F/P, NGK BKR7E, JRSC, JR MAP Mod, Walbro GSS-342.
Ex-Squeezer.
wooo! i am all ears NTGF...
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Boost. Finally.
This is a completely kewl idea. I have one question though... I saw the connection schematic for this on that thread. What I would like to know is how would you kook it up to the version 1 that doesn't have the map in map out???
Thoughts?
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"En su vida, un hombre puede cambiar de mujer, sus opiniones politicas o su religion pero no su equipo de futbol." Adreano Galleani, Uruguayen poet.
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escuani.gif
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[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited October 13, 2001).]
Geez, I step away from Hostboard for a few days and now everyone's talking about the size of my equipment...
Glad you guys are showing some interest in the idea. I didn't even mention it over here because of the number of SC people here; with all the JR piggyback electronics and pre/post boost MAP sensor placement I figured I didn't understand the JRSC system well enough to be suggesting this.
That said, on my turbo setup it has been WONDERFUL. With an 0.48 exhaust housing I actually build boost quick enough to deal with a lot of tip-in detonation at part throttle, which is now GONE, since I allow the VAFC to increase fuel beginning around 5" vacuum.
Another neat thing about it is I can reduce or increase boost with no re-tuning... With the VAFC setup this was previously impossible because you simply set fuel correction at "WIDE THROTTLE" so if you're making 5 psi or 10 psi you get the same fuel if the pedal is all the way down. I have some trouble keeping my IC piping connected, and previously if my hose blew off my car would run like ASS because the VAFC didn't realize the turbo wasn't there. Yesterday, I lost an IC hose and hardly noticed it because the rest of the way home the car was basically running exactly as it did without a turbo.
I agree that if you're using a J&S for MAP limiting you are spending a lot of money on this and if you're starting from scratch you should go buy a hondata and be done with it. I came up with this idea in the interest of making the most of what I already have. I have a lot of hope for the guys on H-tech who are considering this mod using a second MAP sensor; so one reads a check valve limited signal to the ECU and the other reads boost to the VAFC mod. If you do it this way you can get out pretty cheap:
VAFC $250-350 depending on used or new
DSM 450cc injectors $50
4x10-ohm resistors $5
Second MAP sensor $50
Gets you a ghetto-certified fuel management system for as little as $350 if you already have a missing link, and around $100 if you already have a VAFC, which in my opinion works out to be a pretty good value. Running stock pressures you can even get away with 7 or 8 psi of boost on the stock fuel pump. That basically makes this almost cheaper than an FMU setup and in my opinion a much nicer and more flexible solution. While it's NOT a standalone, it does have the advantage of on-the-fly tunability that you simply can't (and probably shouldn't) have on a Hondata 2B, and you don't interfere with any of the ECUs normal functions. Plus I like having extra buttons to press in my car. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
Your results may vary.
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[This message has been edited by dbman96 (edited October 12, 2001).]
Hey I have a question on this.
Now...let me understand this correctly.
So...you hook the MAP output into the TPS input of the VAFC...so when the manifold pressure rises...the VAFC thinks the throttle is increasing...correct?
Now...how do you make that add fuel?
I have an S-AFC...and thought you can only add/subrtact fuel at different RPMs...not at different throttle positions.
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1997 HX Civic
B20Z2 All Motor non-VTEC
13.77 @ 98.11 MPH
Gonna try this on my ride this week I hope, then run some damn 12.xxxxx http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Sweet Idea Dman!
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98 GS-scR w/ 11psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Endyn Kamikazi header, Godspeed testpipe, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S Ultra safeguard v1, RC 370's, Cartech FMU, Vortech regulator, Apex-i
V-AFC, H&R sports and KYB AGX's,ITR LSD, JR flywheel, Clutch Specialties stage 4, MSD digital 6 & HVC coil, Endyn stepper pulley, NX nitrous and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down.
Best et ==>13.6 @ 103mph w/ 2.3 60ft on Nitto drag radials @ 8psi of boost
DOH!!!! Guess you are right Jay, I guess that whole secondary map sensor would come in to plan here.
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98 GS-scR w/ 11psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Endyn Kamikazi header, Godspeed testpipe, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S Ultra safeguard v1, RC 370's, Cartech FMU, Vortech regulator, Apex-i
V-AFC, H&R sports and KYB AGX's,ITR LSD, JR flywheel, Clutch Specialties stage 4, MSD digital 6 & HVC coil, Endyn stepper pulley, NX nitrous and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down.
Best et ==>13.6 @ 103mph w/ 2.3 60ft on Nitto drag radials @ 8psi of boost
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr Rogers:
DOH!!!! Guess you are right Jay, I guess that whole secondary map sensor would come in to plan here.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh yeah.... this is why I was inquiring more infor about this hookup.
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"En su vida, un hombre puede cambiar de mujer, sus opiniones politicas o su religion pero no su equipo de futbol." Adreano Galleani, Uruguayen poet.
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http://www.c-speedracing.com/Images/C-speedbanner.gif
[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited October 16, 2001).]
Mouhad, that's kinda the point we're at on this thing - if you don't have a J&S V.2 you can either hook up a second map sensor (and if you're doing that why not get a GM 2-bar or 3-bar sensor) for the VAFC's TPS input OR you can build your own MAP voltage limiting circuit if you don't mind a little work with op-amps and transistors for under $20 - there will be plans for the MAP limiter posted shortly courtesy of one of my H-tech friends who's helping out on this. I still personally believe the dual map sensor is the simplest way to do it and if you want you could even tap it off the line running to a mechanical boost gauge and not even have to wire anything through the firewall.
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I see. If you can provide some schematics and the parts that would be great. I've got prolly all the electronic parts at work.
Keep us informed.
Thanks!
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"En su vida, un hombre puede cambiar de mujer, sus opiniones politicas o su religion pero no su equipo de futbol." Adreano Galleani, Uruguayen poet.
http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escuani.gif
http://www.c-speedracing.com/Images/C-speedbanner.gif
[This message has been edited by MouhadIb (edited October 16, 2001).]