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My version of Weckl's great solo (from the excellent [ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0769247938/qid=1099098246/sr=2-3/"]Contemporary Drummer + One package[/ame])
<a href="http://www.infamousmanagementinc.com/tunes/MethodAirSpur.mp3" target="_blank">
MethodAir: Spur of the Moment solo</a>
Others with their own recordings from this CD, feel free to contribute [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 08, 2004 10:29 PM: Message edited by: MethodAir ]</font>
Some good ideas/phrasing here... but I would work on your flow/fluency (and I need to work on this too, esp in solos).
How did you record this? It sounds good.
I have some weckl play along stuff, but it's music from his band sans drums. No click. Never tried playing to em too much though cause I don't know the songs well enough, and they do get pretty intricate.
Speaking of Weckl...
I'll have a great new weckl solo clip to share within a couple days (need to edit it), so stay tuned!
i like all the laid back flams. sounds good.
Method Air, I really like what you do, and I liked your other recordings you put up. You have amazing chops, and a fantastic drum sound. Not just because of the studio, but you've got your drums tuned to have a very round, full, fat distinctive sound which is definitely your sound and noone elses. Loads of energy too. Nice! Only thing I can say about the solo is that it kind of sounded in places,(mostly the earlier parts), like it had very little to do with the piece of music apart from the hits you caught. Maybe that's because you took it 'too out'. Or it might be to do with fluency/timing as said above. Other than that, I wish I could do half of what you're doing, and that tom lick at 0:59 is ace! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 30, 2004 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Rudy_Ment ]</font>
Hey Man!
Sounds good overall...nice chops. The ideas and facility are there.
A lot of the phrasing doesn't really feel locked in to the cowbell though. They're fighting eachother and it can be hard to listen to that kind of playing. It's right on the virg of being in time, but it's not locked with the cowbell.
Take one of your phrases and sing it to the the click. Make sure all the notes fall into place. Then practice just that one phrase until you OWN IT. A lot of guys play stuff, but they don't own it. That's important. Once you own, then move on to the next one. Own all your stuff...the players that do obviuosly do. The one's that dont'..etc..
As far as stealing stuff...that's fine but orchestrate it differently. Play it on different parts of the kit, or add some notess. RLffRll? Then add another Rll at the end or something. Extend it. Make it yours.
You sound good man, keep it coming! [img]wink.gif[/img]
Thanks guys. I sight read the solo (32 bars), added some of my own phrasing, and perhaps later I'll get a keyboard player to create a new backing track.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 02, 2004 02:22 AM: Message edited by: MethodAir ]</font>
Wow... that was pretty sick playing. Ive been playing for a little under two years but I live in Hawaii so I never get to see people do this kinda stuff... i cant even really process the notes fast enough... sounds great... inspires me to practice more.
Cool,
Though you need to do your more of your own thing as you are playing a lot of Weck's fills and stuff. But it's cool. I would lower the verb, it makes the drums not fit sonically.
Better yet, play along with the whole track. It's easier to solo than it is to lock in and groove.
But then again, it's more fun to blow chops on the solo section! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
hey method air, thats some great playing man! i got the contempory drummer + 1 book aswell..pretty cool tracks...very 80s..but ive never really work on it, i prefer working on sight reading stuff from modern reading texts by louis bellson..great book
Ditto on the drum sound...very nice! Little more info on how you recorded? The snare/hats sound work well together.
PocketPlayer, this was the engineer Zander's response to your question:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote:
The drums were tracked through Neve and Focusrite mic pre's straight to 2 inch analog. Neumann and Nevaton condenser mics were used as well as the usual SM57 on snare and an AKG D112 on kick. Manley tube compression used while tracking and on the insert. Lexicon verb.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, Rudy_Ment. The drum corps sticks I'm using on this recording (L = 17", Dia. = .710") help to get a nice round sound out of the toms when hit hard, even if the drum or head is lacking somewhat in tone.Quote:
you've got your drums tuned to have a very round, full, fat distinctive sound which is definitely your sound and noone elses
MethodAir
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 30, 2004 09:22 PM: Message edited by: MethodAir ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I play off the keyboard and bass vamp and use the cowbell as a guide. Any phrases in particular that don't sound locked in?Quote:
A lot of the phrasing doesn't really feel locked in to the cowbell though.
Spur of the moment
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 02, 2004 02:41 AM: Message edited by: MethodAir ]</font>
Sounds good but there are still some phrases that aren't locked in. They may start in the right place, and even end there. But it may sway from the course along the way.
Maybe I'm just having trouble feeling your phrases though. Thats always a possibility.
Hey Steve,
You don't have any trouble...
Peace.
Steve Holmes: Don?t go to the doctor to check your hearing.
In my opinion ,most of the things played are "without timing", and most of the time the cowbell track seems to be-is in the UPBEAT.
It?s really hard to hear-feel the phrases...with or without the music track.
Of course, this drum solo it?s extremely difficult. It?s not a easy task to play any Weckl solos.
It?s obviuous you have worked on it. For most of humans it can take a century to play this type of solos without sounding like a robot.
Feel is subjective. N40, on the clips I heard you play on, the drumming was rushing more than I personally like listening to. But that's cool. The solo I played was well within my comfort zone, it turned out pretty much like I intended it to.
The idea here was to put some new music over the solo, and here's a sample. Feedback welcome.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 02, 2004 11:19 PM: Message edited by: MethodAir ]</font>
Thats all good and well but if somethings not in time, it's....not. in. time.
It should be apparent where the quarter note is even when you solo. In all 3 of these clips, it's not. And 2 of them had a cowbell on the quarter note.
Just because your soloing doesnt mean you cant convey a pulse of some kind. 99% of the time I solo my hat is splashing the quarter note for this reason. Not to mention the phrases themselves can spell out the time. They don't all have to be "out". The listener needs something to latch on to...not to mention the other guys in the band.
[img]graemlins/shhh.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A lot of fills are sight read direct from here. I personally didn't feel the need to splash the hh on every downbeat coz I knew there was a click that would be there on the final version, on every beat. The drummer keeping up with the machine track is the challenge..if I got to bar 17 and stayed in sync when the bass keys come in, I considered the first half pretty much in time.Quote:
They don't all have to be "out"
If you can demonstrate your concept with one of your solos, I'd like to check it out.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 02, 2004 10:54 PM: Message edited by: MethodAir ]</font>
Steve,
i can feel what you're saying bro'.
the whole solo doesn't feel locked in with da click.
i feel the phrases are behind it all the way through.
Method-great job tho'! [img]wink.gif[/img]
not an easy task to undertake and the ideas and chops are there.
maybe you should try and record some bars of the groove,to have a flow goi'n on and then use it to start solin' like mad!!!
just my opinion since i can't display any of that stuff you do.
focus on the groove tho'. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Hey Guys,
I don't know if it can helps, but I have a rule very simple but very important for me.
- "I Never do what I don't know do"
To me it's better to do things simpler very good than crazy hot stuff without mastery.
Peace.
Ok, this has been bugging me...
Method, all good and great drummers have one thing in common: they all have a strong, solid sense of time. It therefor strikes me as being pointless in attempting to play or post a piece of music that is clearly intentended to be played in time when the fundamentals aren't there, regardless of the level of difficulty or what 'new music' is placed underneath. If playing this highly technical piece of music is too difficult, then sort your time out first and foremost BEFORE you master the chops.
[img]graemlins/clock.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 03, 2004 05:27 AM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>
Hey Method,
Take it easy Man.
You let a song and you ask for feedback, but you don't want hear people say to you thing that you should listen by yourself first, and it seems that you're still not listen them...
Forget the solo, send me, send us some song where you're just holding the groove and thing will be more clear for me, for us.
Anyway, I let you 2 songs where I play and where I'm rushing, because you like that...
With Chic Hot (still the same...)
http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=85...BAE5B4AF17DE38
And...
With The Hansons (pop)
http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=A5...3BBAEDC506E394
Of course I recorded them with a click track, but it doen't mean nothing...
Peace.
I think that SteveHolmes is not saying that you have to play your foot hihat every time you play a solo...
It is really-really difficult to listen to your whole drum solo without feelling-listening a hard fight between the cowbell and your drums.
As I said... the cowbell seems to be in everywhere but not in the downbeat.
I insist: extreme difficulty-100 years of playing and 99% of drummers would play this solo like a bad programmed robot.
Hey n?40, i thought that the younger hanson was the drummer of the band! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Great playing, as always...
Hey Julian,
Como esta ?
Thanks your kindness.
Well, Zaak Hanson is a good drummer, enough for playing some pop/rock drumming stuff.
So he plays on some tunes but I think that on the Hanson's hit, it's Abe Jr on drums.
Peace.
Hey Method,
The two last audio-clip that you sent are great, you sound very great on it.
How hear you the "Spur Of The Moment"'s solo, are you listening yourself IN ?
n?40,
Thanks. hmmm...that's hard to rationalize. I had to record a few things that morning, and the solo was at the end for fun. What I knew was I was going to go for a thicker sound. When there is a duration, start to end, I'm interested in how different pulses can be conveyed.
This is another groove sample from that day.
Who said anything about GROOVE!! More soloing dammit! This is a SOLOING THREAD!
Hey your soloing is out of time. Post some GROOVE mp3's!
[img]eek.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 03, 2004 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font>
Method,
Yes, great groove with nice kick placement.
When you hold the groove, it's great.
It's just your drum solo who is not IN for me.
No offense please.
Take care.
Man... I have same "problem" as you Method. E.g at todays rehersal i played well, communicated very well with my maties, but when it came to me doing a solo, i don't know what happens, i just go cold...
I find my vocabulary great in terms of playing with others, but it disentegrates when i'm soloing, i get into the same patterns, same ideas, and when i execute hard stuff it doesn't have the same touch as when i'm playing with the rest of the band. I can clearly hear aspects of my own "half-hearted" executions in my solo, and there must be many others than me, getting the same feeling. I really want to achieve this, but the other drummers i hang out with etc. doesn't want to practice up to a level where you can do Weckl solo's etc. I would like to be able to hook up with some of you online so we can work together on this!
You have the chops methodman, we just need to have them into Time with that anoying click!
Get out of the closet you fakers like me, let us work on this together. I think my keyboard player taped a jamsession from rehearsel some weeks ago i'd like to post, to show where I start from. like the letter (A). and we're heading to (B). So we can make Steve Holmes and the rest of HoD proud [img]cool.gif[/img]
Sorry for long post ( Off Topic? ) i just think there are many drummers out here like me with this "Handycap". Let's take soloing serious.
Let's quit the "Groove is more important than solo", It's not that we forget how to groove because we focus on developing our solo-abilities for a while.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Method, please read my post again, in fact I'll post it again here for you:Quote:
Dazzler, can you point to one phrase where you think I, the drummer has lost track of where the 1/4 pulse is? I may not have chose to convey it, but I knew exactly where it was. To suggest a drummer with no time can get through this solo is ridiculous imo.
** Ok, this has been bugging me...
Method, all good and great drummers have one thing in common: they all have a strong, solid sense of time. It therefor strikes me as being pointless in attempting to play or post a piece of music that is clearly intentended to be played in time when the fundamentals aren't there, regardless of the level of difficulty or what 'new music' is placed underneath. If playing this highly technical piece of music is too difficult, then sort your time out first and foremost BEFORE you master the chops. **
......you'll now notice that I never mentioned anything about you not knowing where the quarter note was. I along with the other guys on here recognise 16th note displacements and superimposing dotted crotchets over 4/4 - we've all watched Dave's vids too!
Regarding your second point, it IS possible to get through this solo as far as getting all Dave's licks down, but it is also possible to play his solo out of time, which this was. Clearly.
Also, if you knew that the cowbell was not in time with you, why bother posting this? What was your objective? Why not play us a more simple, spacious and musical solo of your own instead of a badly executed, out of time solo by another drummer?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">....Quote:
Originally posted by n?40:
With Chic Hot (still the same...)
http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=85...BAE5B4AF17DE38
Peace.
What is your real name, monster? still looking for my jaws below my desktop!
This is a question of interpretation of time, and there are different points of view that can be argued.
N40, the Hanson clip definitely wasn't rushing, but the Chic Hot clip felt a little unsettled to me.
Here's a couple of examples of straight grooves, the first a pop tune which I co-wrote:
Flying Sample
Oakland Stroke (re-post)
>>I said... the cowbell seems to be in everywhere but not in the downbeat.
Amadeus, that's displacement where the '1' becomes the 'and' or 'ah' of the beat etc. It's a good idea to compare the original and my interpretation back to back.
Dazzler, can you point to one phrase where you think I, the drummer has lost track of where the 1/4 pulse is? I may not have chose to convey it, but I knew exactly where it was. To suggest a drummer with no time can get through this solo is ridiculous imo.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 03, 2004 12:21 PM: Message edited by: MethodAir ]</font>
This seems like a good opportunity to see where a fun/challenging solo can develop. This version of Spur follows the cowbell a little more, and smoothes out the hit section (a little [img]wink.gif[/img] ), still rough but a work in progress.
Sorry Method, I just don't get what you're trying to say with this. To me it still sounds out of time. I'm not being funny or rude, I just don't get it.
Why not post something a bit more simple with more space, that you can be sure is in time with the click rather than playing something with far too many notes for your own good that is simply out of time. It will make more sense musically and be all the more pleasant to listen to. At the moment, you're filling up everything.
Being able to play in time whether a groove or solo is an absolute must for any drummer as you well know.
Also, could you please address the points I made in my last post. Thanks.
[img]graemlins/clock.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Daz, have to pull you up on this one. You always say the same thing, 'keep it simple, keep it musical'. In this thread, it is about soloing. Fair comments about keeping it more in time, and I think MA is aware it wasn't perfect. But it was a damn good effort anyway.Quote:
Originally posted by Dazzler:
[QBWhy not play us a more simple, spacious and musical solo of your own instead of a badly executed, out of time solo by another drummer?[/QB]
[img]smile.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I understand what you're saying Rudy, but in answer to your point the fundamentals are lacking here and that's an absolutely vital apptitude to play in time. I'm fully aware that this thread is about soloing, but M.A. has chosen to record and play a solo over a vamp and not a free piece of music. He is playing ideas that are intended to be nailed as it were.Quote:
You always say the same thing, 'keep it simple, keep it musical'. In this thread, it is about soloing.
My point is this, I'm not having a go at him at all for what he has chosen to do, I'm simply saying that the basics ie TIME needed to be sorted first, BEFORE he launches into Dave Weckl solo's. I couldn't play what he is playing and I certainly wouldn't attempt it as I know that it wouldn't be in time with the click.
So it follows that I am suggesting to him that he plays us something a with more space that he is certain he can execute in time first and foremost.
With regards to simplicity, I don't have a problem with the amounts of notes that one can play as long as they are in time and relate to the click, without being all over the shop. This is intnded to be constructive critisism and not malicious.
[img]smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/clock.gif[/img]
I think it's impressive, though, that you took the time to learn an entire Weckl solo. That's tough to do. It does seem a little loose in spots, but with a little more work every thing will lock in a little more.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I sort of take your point Rudy, but as you are all well aware by now (!!) that my philosophy is about making music. as Roger so rightly said:Quote:
If he just played something simple, he wouldn't exactly be stretching himself would he. It's not about what he can do easily. It's about challenging himself to play musical complexities.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Listen to the stuff that he posts, he is the most ridiculous player. The African tune that he posted a while back that wanders in and out of 12/8 has been played non stop and is on my iPod along with his latest offering and yet he has the restraint and musicality to play so 'in the pocket' as on his new vocal track. He will use his considerable chops to SERVE THE MUSIC. When it isn't necesarry, he leaves them at home!!Quote:
What does mean to have chops and not to know how do them right in place ?
It's useless !!!
.....We drummer cannot be almost right in time, we have to be right in time !!!
....we are the heart of a band !!!
I'm digressing.... with regards to your point Rudy, I would like to know where it is written that you have to stretch yourself in order to make good music. Miles Davis could play 1 or 2 notes and in the correct place, it would mean SO much.
I agree that it is necessary to stretch yourself as you said, but it certainly isn't true that good music or music that comes from the heart has to be on the edge of your abilities. Play solid, phat crotchets on a ride on their own and if you mean it, it will sound killing and in context.
Challenge yourself and your so-called 'musical complexities' in your practice routine on your own, but as soon as you post something on this site for all to hear, you open yourself up to constructive comments. All the chops in the world don't mean anything if they are not IN TIME. The examples that M.A. has posted for us I pressume, were intended for our opinions otherwise he wouldn't have gone to such lenghts to record and post them. Besides, who wants to play with a drummer - or any musician for that matter that fails to play in time or lock in with a click? This is absolutly fundamental and must be addressed BEFORE anything else, including 16th note displacements!!