Re: Question for the writers
Hello, doc,
But of course, I did. Earlier this month Conan O'Brien went to Japan to have a mock feud with a whole town over the alleged issue of owned royalties after his name being used. I'm only mentioning this because the author who made the town famous is actually responsible for my expanding the horizons not just on possibilities, but also on how to be more perceptive and curious on various topics. Where before my story got stuck on filling a single book and being a run-of-the-mill revenge story, it had suddenly expanded into a universe, which would still make sense if there wouldn't be a main plot waiting to be resolved.
Case in point, the summer heat wave and my technical issues with the internet have actually given me more time to think about structure and content, so a simple idea has branched out into 4 seasons (or series if you're British). There are times when I use something I call bread crumbs, dangling plot threads from previously unresolved stories. If done right, it can turn out like Lost, which, if you watch key episodes 4 or 5 times, you realize, the new creative team managed to answer some core mysteries the original creator left behind. Whenever I hit a wall where I don't know how to move further, I take a step back and analyze, which seems more feasible, to create a new situation or a new character.
Anything on this world that's older than 70 years, we're prone to perceive as eternal and older, than dirt. Yet, tea leaves are one of the most easily accessible counter proofs to that theory. Once the Brits recognized the qualities of tea, the need arose to have it mass transported. Certainly, tea, just like coffee or peanuts, have several degrees of quality, so samples needed to be produced, and that's how they got into bags. It was never intended to be brewed in such a fashion or stored that way, laziness helped with that. Even so, the supposedly highly cultured Brits in the decades of spiritualism were keen to have their future read from those leaves, and Prison Break has popularized tea bagging for something else entirely.
Ergo the way out is always simple, it's how you obscure it that gives it a unique meaning.
Re: Question for the writers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apenman
Hello fellow craftsmen/writers.
I?m writing a story right now with a slightly different slant or angle. I thought it was a unique idea and that it was coming along rather nicely, until I re-assessed it and I noted that it seems to have taken a slightly different direction from the story I had in my mind.
Now I?m not sure if I should add it to the ever growing list of unfinished stories or try to write my way out of the figurative corner I seem to be in.
Anyway, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this phenomenon in your story writing.
A.P.
Dear Penman,
Could you be more specific in what you are encountering? I think that the notion that stories grow and change as we write them is hardly surprising and something, I am sure, that you have encountered yourself, many times. So, that leads me to believe that what you are encountering is more involved that just this fairly ordinary kind of story evolution, but I am not clear on what that could be. For example, why can't you just go along with the change as it has evolved? You seem to be suggesting that you want to back-track or find some way to pull it back into what you wanted it to be. Again, I understand this, but why?
As to whether or not I've experienced this in my writing, I can't be sure, for the reasons noted above. I have certainly experienced a story starting one way then evolving in slightly different directions but, to be honest, I find that I generally fit a story into the parameters that I set for it when I first started out. Of course, I also don't think that I am writing the world's greatest story. For me, the things that tend to change are details of the plot and development of the character motivations, but the thrust of the story largely stays the same.
Take care,
JB
Re: Question for the writers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apenman
Hello fellow craftsmen/writers.
I?m writing a story right now with a slightly different slant or angle. I thought it was a unique idea and that it was coming along rather nicely, until I re-assessed it and I noted that it seems to have taken a slightly different direction from the story I had in my mind.
Now I?m not sure if I should add it to the ever growing list of unfinished stories or try to write my way out of the figurative corner I seem to be in.
Anyway, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this phenomenon in your story writing.
A.P.
Yes. All the time.
I don't think anything I have ever written has turned out exactly how I planned by the time I was finished with it. Whether a story snowballs with more and more ideas I get in the process of writing it, making what could have been 5 pages into 15, or when a story outright mutates and morphs into something so different that the original pitch only ends up being a quick joke in the middle of it.
The only solution I've found for this is to just roll with it. Whatever I end up with is always just as good if not even better than the idea I started with. Plus it means that what I start usually ends up being finished, at least in some capacity. And if there are some things I was never able to work in, then I can just try again with a different project.
I guess my advice would be to just be flexible. In my personal experience, nothing makes the creative process harder than trying to rigidly adhere to a plan.
Hope that helps.
Re: Question for the writers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JB57
Dear Penman,
Could you be more specific in what you are encountering? I think that the notion that stories grow and change as we write them is hardly surprising and something, I am sure, that you have encountered yourself, many times. So, that leads me to believe that what you are encountering is more involved that just this fairly ordinary kind of story evolution, but I am not clear on what that could be. For example, why can't you just go along with the change as it has evolved? You seem to be suggesting that you want to back-track or find some way to pull it back into what you wanted it to be. Again, I understand this, but why?
As to whether or not I've experienced this in my writing, I can't be sure, for the reasons noted above. I have certainly experienced a story starting one way then evolving in slightly different directions but, to be honest, I find that I generally fit a story into the parameters that I set for it when I first started out. Of course, I also don't think that I am writing the world's greatest story. For me, the things that tend to change are details of the plot and development of the character motivations, but the thrust of the story largely stays the same.
Take care,
JB
JB,
Simple or complicated, here it is. I had it in mind for the story to say this and for this to happen, and for it to resolve in this manner...etc.
But then came this thought and that idea and this bit of dialogue and now I see this tome taking a different direction and noticing that it will likely need to be resolved differently than the original idea. I don't think that's a bad thing, just different then what I had in mind when I started writing it. And you're right...I could have been a little more specific.
As for back tracking, no, I don't really want to do that. I'm sure that the original idea will resurface another time and perhaps I'll give it another try.
And yes, this has happened before and I did do what you, CFL40 and Adrock are suggesting...I went with the flow. But in each case, as I recall, the story turned out somewhat different.
I posted the question because I wanted to know if anyone else experienced this phenomenon. Apparently you have.
Anyway, I have determined that this is a story I do not want to assign to the scrap heap. I like it and I'm going to find a way to finish it.
What I do love about the writing process is what you guys seem to be suggesting?even though the story might change a bit, it usually works out and, often ends up even better.
Thanks,
A.P.
Re: Question for the writers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apenman
JB,
Simple or complicated, here it is. I had it in mind for the story to say this and for this to happen, and for it to resolve in this manner...etc.
But then came this thought and that idea and this bit of dialogue and now I see this tome taking a different direction and noticing that it will likely need to be resolved differently than the original idea. I don't think that's a bad thing, just different then what I had in mind when I started writing it. And you're right...I could have been a little more specific.
As for back tracking, no, I don't really want to do that. I'm sure that the original idea will resurface another time and perhaps I'll give it another try.
And yes, this has happened before and I did do what you, CFL40 and Adrock are suggesting...I went with the flow. But in each case, as I recall, the story turned out somewhat different.
I posted the question because I wanted to know if anyone else experienced this phenomenon. Apparently you have.
Anyway, I have determined that this is a story I do not want to assign to the scrap heap. I like it and I'm going to find a way to finish it.
What I do love about the writing process is what you guys seem to be suggesting?even though the story might change a bit, it usually works out and, often ends up even better.
Thanks,
A.P.
Dear AP,
Thanks for the clarification. What you are describing sounds to me like what the others (and I) have described above. The idea that the story presents itself to you is not new. One of the most interesting examples of this is expressed by Stephen King in his book "On Writing". It's a good memoir and it is only partly about the writing process. However, in it, he makes the point that his characters often take on lives of their own. If you've ever read his vampire epic "'Salem's Lot" you will know that it ended with the good guys "winning." That may seem unremarkable but, originally, King did not plan it that way. But, according to him, the characters in his story demanded to be more heroic than he had planned, so he went with what they wanted. King subscribes to the idea that stories are more "discovered" than written. I don't think that applies to me and the kind of stories that I write for this board, but it is an interesting way to think of story-writing.
Good luck with your story! I'm looking forward to reading it.
JB57
Re: Question for the writers
Dear Doc,
I can go with the flow easily because way more often than not I actually see in my mind what's happening in the story, and much like a scientific theory, it too starts with the premise, goes through examination and posits/predicts something new, resulting in a new starting point. That's why I was on board before with JB when he said it's not always a good idea to continue the story of someone else, as it very well may be built on the premise of disregarding where it should go.
Yet, if JB brought up King. This should be a no-brainer, but yeah, don't do coke, as he did. To stay with Misery, having a ritual, on the other hand, does help. My own reason for backtracking is simple, the criticism of my own work is very different from what readers may experience. If I can, I stay away from pieces I worked a lot on as I have the nasty habit of wanting to rework it all the time. The problem with that is obvious, authors are the literal physicians wanting to heal thyselves, so a second pair of eyes is always better.
I join JB and I will read the story when it comes out, since I have not changed my opinion, I still think that boards like these are the contemporary form of magazines like Punch, where writers submitted adventures by chapters (ah, when you could talk about just one book for 4 years). If Stan Lee could "create" (or steal) Stripperella (depending on who you ask) and still remain a respectable idea man, there's no rule that says stories here should be run-of-the-mill.
Re: Question for the writers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrock
Yes. All the time.
I don't think anything I have ever written has turned out exactly how I planned by the time I was finished with it. Whether a story snowballs with more and more ideas I get in the process of writing it, making what could have been 5 pages into 15, or when a story outright mutates and morphs into something so different that the original pitch only ends up being a quick joke in the middle of it.
The only solution I've found for this is to just roll with it. Whatever I end up with is always just as good if not even better than the idea I started with. Plus it means that what I start usually ends up being finished, at least in some capacity. And if there are some things I was never able to work in, then I can just try again with a different project.
I guess my advice would be to just be flexible. In my personal experience, nothing makes the creative process harder than trying to rigidly adhere to a plan.
Hope that helps.
Adrock,
Thanks! These are wonderful thoughts and suggestions!
I did not intend to give you guys the impression I'm having some sort of dilemma. I'm not. But the process I described has happened more than once and I could not help wondering if other writers have experienced it?obviously they (and you) have.
Rolling with it is something I?ve done in the past and will no doubt continue to do. More often than not, it works out. But there have been a few times when I've gone so far off the rails that I couldn't finish the story.
If a story does expand from 5 to 15 pages, I find I have to be careful not to bloviate. On the other hand, I?ve written some very long stories that, in spite of their occasional meandering, I?m rather pleased with.
As for the story that I?m writing, the one that prompted this question, I like it and the idea. Odd as it may sound, I believe the two main characters will show me the way to a logical conclusion.
Thank you so much for the words of advice.
A.P.
Re: Question for the writers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
catfightlover40
Dear Doc,
I can go with the flow easily because way more often than not I actually see in my mind what's happening in the story, and much like a scientific theory, it too starts with the premise, goes through examination and posits/predicts something new, resulting in a new starting point. That's why I was on board before with JB when he said it's not always a good idea to continue the story of someone else, as it very well may be built on the premise of disregarding where it should go.
Going with the flow of a story, while trying to keep it within the original framework you had in mind?there?s the rub!
Still, it can have its rewards. And I have indeed done this?
I, personally, would not want to continue the story of another author, if for no other reason than stylistic differences. I would also worry that the other writer would see the result and say, ?What the fuck was he thinking when he wrote this??
Yet, if JB brought up King. This should be a no-brainer, but yeah, don't do coke, as he did. To stay with Misery, having a ritual, on the other hand, does help. My own reason for backtracking is simple, the criticism of my own work is very different from what readers may experience. If I can, I stay away from pieces I worked a lot on as I have the nasty habit of wanting to rework it all the time.
There?s always room for improvement, but I recognize the trap of which you speak.
The problem with that is obvious, authors are the literal physicians wanting to heal thyselves, so a second pair of eyes is always better.
My General Practitioner tells me regularly that he?s open to the idea of me consulting a psychiatrist?you know, a second opinion.
I join JB and I will read the story when it comes out, since I have not changed my opinion, I still think that boards like these are the contemporary form of magazines like Punch, where writers submitted adventures by chapters (ah, when you could talk about just one book for 4 years). If Stan Lee could "create" (or steal) Stripperella (depending on who you ask) and still remain a respectable idea man, there's no rule that says stories here should be run-of-the-mill.
I agree. The board is a great place to follow the serial adventures/stories (strange fetish notwithstanding) of many talented writers. Still, I believe JB hinted at something I?ve always believed.
While many of us write well, we?re not exactly creating great art/literature here. We?ve found kindred spirits here who share our (rather gentle) perversion. And we, as writers, give them (and ourselves), what they want.
Keep in mind, CFL40, that, while most of us understand and respect the limits (rules) here, we reside in a world that borders right next to some even more dark and perverse sexual predilections. Many times I?ve seen requests for stories with violence and death and, even worse, acts involving children. Thankfully, the moderators tend to squash those requests.
I may have wandered a bit off topic here, but these thoughts have been with me from the beginning. I know where I am in the stratum of literary art. I have no delusions that, 100 years from now, the collected works of A. Penman will be up for discussion in some classroom. I?ve had lesbian fantasies for many years. This is my outlet, so to speak. I?m comfortable here. I enjoy writing this stuff. As long as the ideas come, I?ll keep writing.
That said, I completed the story in question earlier today. I need to make a few minor changes, but it should be up in a day or two.
Thanks so much for your input. Also, thanks to JB and Adrock.
A.P.
Re: Question for the writers
Doc,
I view a lot of things in perspective, and where a path is as narrow as ours, I need a camera obscura. I will start a new exclusive series on Patreon, that will have a few entries every month about a couple living in a marriage of convenience. The saga will play itself out from the '50s to the '70s, a choice that wasn't made by accident. It's the era, where the surge of civil rights (the very ones for which it's a national pastime to be called an SJW for protecting them) restructured public godfearing behavior that persecuted any desire other than vanilla sex into an industry, a profitable one where people can choose from multiple genres.
Greats, like Deep Throat or Debbie does Dallas did not cease to be mainstream because the Southern Strategy worked and most have suddenly become believers again, the mob played a huge role. They lacked the interest, therefore they only produced and distributed what was commonplace. I mentioned Punch before and that too was with reason. By the late 19th century as the whole world became colonized, the interest in adventure faded, so a mixture took its place. On the one hand, lucky writers got to publish chapters in these magazines about traveling to the Moon, the center of the Earth, or created a British lord raised by monkeys. Stories that were revolutionary and were not considered high art. Most of them were called scientific romance to signify how generally speaking it was believed none of it can become a reality. They were right, since there are no submarines, television, and nobody has ever set foot on the Moon.
Which brings me to the demand. I too have gotten requests of the sort you speak of, I use commissions for that. Even so, wherever possible I infuse with content that points beyond a simple premise and transforms into something that is theirs. It is to be expected in a consumerist society that almost everything gets commercialized, including demand for fetish. It's no secret, we have an image about how men are what they are supposed to do and can do, that gets realized through free reign. It can sometimes lead to a bar fight whether the guy I'm punching is the lead singer of UB40 or not.
I'm an expat, for whom democracy really is an experimental process. So much in fact that some of the things that happen back home dishearten me, like the hand maneuvering of sciences, but even worse, a state-sponsored cultural warfare, where the only good works are the ones praising the glorious past, transmit wholesome Christian values and are in no way critical of the system. In other words, there's no way in Hell I could even publish. Ergo it's not simply a desire of mine to mix quality content with fetish, but a testament that as long as stay within the parameters of legality and common sense, I damn well ought to write what I please.
Since I'll be busy writing stories, I still keep my promise and read yours (and also comment on it) but not before the weekend.
