subjective?
methinks it is
Printable View
subjective?
methinks it is
do you know what my empirical truth is?
staring me in the face
even now
if you think empirical truth is subjective, then you would certainly think that none of us could possibly know what your truth was unless you told us (not that that would really help all that much, for how could something that was completely subjective ever be shared?). so why would you ask a question to which you already knew the answer?
BECAUSE I'M VOCALIZING IT, DORK!!!!!
don't you just ramble bullshit just because you
want others to hear it???
yeah.... thought so
ok..ok..i have done some thinking and research and here is the reason people value empirical (objective) knowledge over subjective knowledge (this is an answer to a question shatzy asked off of the forum, though it directly relates to this thread).
it all started a long time ago in a land far, far away: greece. the philosopher heraclitus was the first person to have a strong dislike for the arts, plato's utopia would have banned all poets. why? because the world that we experience, the realm of the senses, is subject to illusion and change. true reality, which can only be reached through reason, is what we should spend our time thinking about. art glorified the realm of the senses, which is just appearence, art itself being the appearence of appearence, which is just about the lowest thing to have as an object of contemplation (unless, of course, it was a copy of an original art work, which is even lower).
later, during the enlightenment, thinkers such as john locke, while rejecting platonic metaphysics to a degree, still hated art, especially poetry, for bacially the same reason. take for example a piece of fruit. a scientist will describe its objective qualities such as mass, diameter, etc, basically any qualitative measure. these things are properties which the fruit actually has, regardless of who measures them. things such as color, taste, smell are all subjective properties, properties we put into the fruit (an apple would not be red to a color blind person, certain people may like the taste of an apple, others may not). these subjective qualities are what artists and poets celebrate, which again is just a celebration of an appearence of an appearence.
this feeling is still strong in our culture today, which is why empirical truth is valued more than subjective truth. thank you, class dismissed.
er..... no.
because that necessitates that what scientists
use as instruments do not fall within subjective
measures... and they do.
you can't tell me the apple is 'there' without
relying on something subjective to issue its
evidence. sure you can say that 100 out of 100
people agree the apple is 'there'... but that
doesn't prove that its free from subjectivity.
secondly, if, as you say, that subjectivity is
objective... the question i ask is, which came
first? (and i don't mean to cavemen)
if you are going to give an empirical truth
about an apple... what exactly are you attempting
to establish??
the apples presence? its color? its shape?
its components?
you are trying to objectify its subjectivity