where did you get that info? last I checked they had him at 4.5 and 230 pounds. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
I would agree on Mike Williams if he wasnt 245 pounds and didnt run a 4.7. There have been reports that he wouldnt even take his playbook home to learn the offense so Garcia jumped all over his [censored]. Hes out of shape and slow, there was always a question of wheather he would play TE at the next level and thats looking more and more like the case. He would have fit in real well before the rules changes when you had to be a physical wide receiver, but now the little guys that have speed to burn are taking over because they can get free and run after the catch. Honestly, after watching him last year, I dont know of another receiver in the nfl that is as slow as Mike Williams. He really doesnt fit Martz's scheme either and from what I have heard, Martz wants rid of both he and Rodgers.
Also, Martz had a mandantory quarterback camp a few months ago. Harrington wouldnt even take out his notebook to take notes on the offense. Martz confronted him, they had a altercation, Harrington said he had no desire to be there, and Martz told him to leave. Harrington is #3 in Detroit and it has more to do with his unprofessionalism than it does his abilities. Kitna's maturity will help that team in a big way.
where did you get that info? last I checked they had him at 4.5 and 230 pounds. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
He was at 230 and 4.55 at the combine before the draft. Since then he has gained weight. I cant say for sure he runs a 4.7 but on the field it looks like it. It was in an article I read, actually it may have been the same article where Martz was going off about Harrington and the quarterback camp, Im not too sure, but it was about 2 months ago, right after Martz was hired.
maybe that's what Williams needs is someone to get in his grill like that, but then again maybe the desire just isn't there, the year off could very well explain why he looked so slow last year, and maybe he didn't know the playbook all that well-if you don't know where your supposed to be your not gonna be as fast as you can be-- and not to compare him in any way to Jerry Rice but he wasn't exactly a barn burner- I say give him one more year to prove if he's got it or not, alot of the "experts" say that WR's really don't make an impact until their second year anyway.
heres a few blurbs from their offseason
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Judging by reports coming out of the Lions first mini camp, Martz is already applying pressure to what was long considered the downfall of the offense in Detroit. Lack of discipline, laziness and lack of attention to detail have been attributed to all three of their young star receivers. They have been pointed to as the reason that Roy Williams seems so lackluster and often lazy on the field despite his immense physical tools. Why Mike Williams can't seem to stop freelancing routes or making meetings on time.
In an interview outside of practice, Roy Williams talked a bit about Martz. "There's more coaching. He says two yards outside the numbers he means two yards. Not a yard a half. That's different than what I'm used to."?
Disciplined route running is something the Lions have been lacking. Both of the Williams' have been known to freelance on routes. That kind of performance does not fly in the Martz offense.
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Williams caught 29 passes for 350 yards and wasn't much of a factor in the Lions' offense; he was even a healthy scratch for the game against Dallas. Williams became sullen and lethargic, and the situation got worse.
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Mike Williams is slowly getting himself back into shape and hopes to reduce his previous playing weight of 235 pounds, some scouts have said Williams was playing at 245 at one point during the season.
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"With Martz, 230 (pounds) doesn't really fit
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What really led to the split between the Lions and Joey Harrington? What really happened at quarterback school earlier this month?
Some have said Harrington sabotaged his appearance at QB school, engineering his way out of town with uncooperative behavior. Some have said he was just unenthusiastic as he realized it wasn't going to work in Detroit.
The truth lies in the middle. Harrington came to QB school with good intentions, but he also had mixed emotions.
As the week went on, things fell apart. The last day went badly. In the end, Harrington didn't feel he could win with the Lions, and the Lions didn't feel they could win with him.
This account is based on interviews with several people close to the situation. All spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information and because Harrington has not spoken for himself yet. He has been on vacation in Southeast Asia and unavailable for comment.
Harrington flew from his Oregon home to the Detroit area Sunday, March 5.
He was upbeat and optimistic because of the support the Lions had given him. President Matt Millen said Feb. 21 the Lions were approaching the off-season with him as their starter, and coach Rod Marinelli agreed. Marinelli and offensive coordinator Mike Martz spoke positively about his potential afterward.
Harrington intended to give it his best shot with an open mind.
Still, he felt some uncertainty. The Lions had a new coaching staff, but they still had most of the same players -- a number of whom had not supported him.
When Harrington drove into Lions headquarters that Monday, he experienced a lot of negative feelings because of the environment. His first meeting with Martz went well, but his first meeting with Marinelli did not. Marinelli told Harrington he had to be all in or all out; Harrington couldn't make that commitment because of his concerns about team chemistry. After a full day's work, Harrington went home and studied his playbook. He told people Martz was jovial and nice and knew a lot about offense.
Harrington put in another full day's work Tuesday. He hurt his back. He went home and studied his playbook again. He told people Marinelli was a down-to-earth, tell-it-like-it-is kind of guy. He still seemed upbeat and thought he would be back later in the month for off-season conditioning.
But Wednesday, the last day of QB school, was different. Harrington didn't break down plays well on the board. He didn't appear to pay attention. He didn't take notes. His mind seemed elsewhere, and something happened with Martz -- what exactly is unclear.
Harrington did not endear himself to the coaches. Marinelli had talked about wanting players with passion. Harrington wasn't showing any. Whatever his intent, he was showing he didn't want to be there.
Afterward, Millen talked to Harrington often, and Harrington talked to the coaches somewhat. But things couldn't be patched up. Harrington didn't want to be a quitter, but he told the Lions he could win in the NFL, just not in Detroit. Martz truly thought Harrington was talented, but the coaches didn't want a quarterback who wasn't confident he could lead their team.
Though Harrington was willing to return for off-season conditioning, Marinelli told him not to.
Harrington flew back to Oregon the next day, then left for Bali and Thailand. He was expected to return to Oregon this week, on Thursday.
Millen has a close relationship with Harrington, and he wants to talk to him as soon as possible. Now that the Lions have signed free agents Jon Kitna and Josh McCown, now that Marinelli has said publicly the Lions are moving on without Harrington, Millen wants to put Harrington in a position to succeed somewhere and get something in return for the Lions.
But Harrington has veto power on any trade. He would have to renegotiate his contract to satisfy another team. He is due a $4-million roster bonus June 15 and a salary of $4.45 million this year and next. If the Lions can't trade him before June 15, they will cut him to avoid paying the bonus, making him an unrestricted free agent.
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im all about physical ball - anybody that knows me knows that... but if were in the players situation i would have said something too. they are getting paid to do a job, end of story. if out of nowhere my boss started wanting me to do all this extra crap, id be mad. the lions do not have the front office or ownership to win a title. and to think, i used to be a huge jim pine fan...
Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them
So I try to forget it any way I can.
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