Oversigning.....

[VOL61]

Clueless...

If they are leaving early, no doubt they are a great player. Meaning that the coach loses a year with an elite player. DUH! Come on, use that brain of yours.

Yea, Clueless.....

I guess the three years Julio, Ingram, Dareus played didn't benefit Saban or Alabama. They really punished him by leaving. Poor guy.... How much in bonuses did he get during their time there? How is he going to make it?

Oh wait they got room and board and an education.... What is wrong with them for leaving punishing poor Nick.... Hell they even got to go on a fishing trip. What do they want....

Yea, I am clueless..... Your clueless....

[Biggin]

Yea, Clueless.....

I guess the three years Julio, Ingram, Dareus played didn't benefit Saban or Alabama. They really punished him by leaving. Poor guy.... How much in bonuses did he get during their time there? How is he going to make it?

By your rationale, those kids should stay four years, since thats what a scholarship entails, according to you.

So now you are arguing that Julio, Ingram and Dareus will not HURT Alabama's team next year? WOW.
Losing three first round picks will not hurt Bama's team, no way.
They leave early, they hurt Bama's chances of winning a lotta games next year. Its obvious.

Oh wait they got room and board and an education.... What is wrong with them for leaving punishing poor Nick.... Hell they even got to go on a fishing trip. What do they want....

Yea, I am clueless..... Your clueless....

Yes, they got all that. Im not saying its terrible or even the wrong decision (for Julio maybe, he might be 1st WR taken next year). But the facts are these kids get hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to PLAY FOOTBALL. If they cant cut it on the field, why in the world should they get a free ride?

Ima ask you again;
why should a kid who cant live up to his end of the bargain (football performance) get four free years of school, instead of the one? Did you get college for free? The school gets punished for a year by giving a scholly to a kid who cant play. Why should they get punished four years?

If you cant give me a good rebuttal to my last paragraph, then I will not continue because it proves you are clueless.

[VOL61]

By your rationale, those kids should stay four years, since thats what a scholarship entails, according to you.

Wrong.... I think the choices that are made should be in the best interest of the kid.

So now you are arguing that Julio, Ingram and Dareus will not HURT Alabama's team next year? WOW.
Losing three first round picks will not hurt Bama's team, no way.
They leave early, they hurt Bama's chances of winning a lotta games next year. Its obvious.

Yes, they got all that. Im not saying its terrible or even the wrong decision (for Julio maybe, he might be 1st WR taken next year). But the facts are these kids get hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to PLAY FOOTBALL. If they cant cut it on the field, why in the world should they get a free ride?

Wrong.... They got room and board and an education. Take that to the bank and cash it. I don't think it equals the millions they made for the school and the millions they made for their coach. Alabama got 50x their investment in any of those kids. To tell any of these kids to stay wouldn't be in their best interest... again.

Ima ask you again;
why should a kid who cant live up to his end of the bargain (football performance) get four free years of school, instead of the one? Did you get college for free? The school gets punished for a year by giving a scholly to a kid who cant play. Why should they get punished four years?

If you cant give me a good rebuttal to my last paragraph, then I will not continue because it proves you are clueless.

I know when a kid commits to a program he expects that program to at least do the same. I know if it where my son I would. Again, This isn't the NFL....

Let me ask you a question. If your son was being pressured to leave to take a hardship that was bullcrap how would you feel? All of this after the guy sitting in your living room lying his a$$ off telling you how much support and guidance would be available to him.

If this is what we are teaching student athletes it is the wrong message. These kids aren't cattle. It isn't what college athletics should be about. If a kid is struggling I thought it was the coaches job to motivate him. If he can't maybe he should have done a little better on his evaluation when he recruited the guy. If the guy is disruptive or just isn't working. That is another matter.

But to just knowingly take guys you think can play knowing that if it doesn't work out you can just dump him 2 years down the line isn't right. And that is what is happening.

And as far as college teaching the kids about life. I don't know about you. But I teach my kids that loyalty means something. I teach them that if you commit to something you are **** well going to finish it. I know that isn't how life is always but having character or integrity isn't always easy. Forgive me for thinking a college football coach should have a little....

I am done....

[Biggin]

Wrong.... I think the choices that are made should be in the best interest of the kid.

? What does that have to do with anything?

Wrong.... They got room and board and an education. Take that to the bank and cash it. I don't think it equals the millions they made for the school and the millions they made for their coach. Alabama got 50x their investment in any of those kids. To tell any of these kids to stay wouldn't be in their best interest... again.

Did I say they should def. stay? NO!. I said Julio might, and he might get drafted in the top 5 last year, but I never said its a horrible decision for any to leave.
So you are trying to tell me that a player like Marcell Dareus, individually, brought Alabama 250k x 50? Thats a joke. Wrong again. Tuition costs at Alabama are roughly 35-50k a year for out of state kids. 35k x 4=140,000. Thats the basic minimum. Once you add in all the stuff a football player receives, from clothes and equipment, meals, all that, A player like Marcell Dareus got roughly 500k from the Univeristy of Alabama. And you think a player like Dareus, himself, brought Alabama more than five hundred thousand dollars? Err, no.

I know when a kid commits to a program he expects that program to at least do the same. I know if it where my son I would. Again, This isn't the NFL....

The program DOES, it gives them a year to prove they are worth a scholarship.

Let me ask you a question. If your son was being pressured to leave to take a hardship that was bullcrap how would you feel? All of this after the guy sitting in your living room lying his a$$ off telling you how much support and guidance would be available to him.

SHOW ME where any Alabama player has taken a medical against his will, where a kid took one that was not 100% HIS decision.

If this is what we are teaching student athletes it is the wrong message. These kids aren't cattle. It isn't what college athletics should be about. If a kid is struggling I thought it was the coaches job to motivate him. If he can't maybe he should have done a little better on his evaluation when he recruited the guy. If the guy is disruptive or just isn't working. That is another matter.

So a kid who was a good HS football player should get four free years of school even if he cant live up to his end of the bargain, on field production?
You know how many kids dont get to go to college AT ALL because they cant afford it, their circumstances keep them from going to college? So we should let a kid slide, get a free education, contribute nothing to the football team, and be rewarded for it? How is that fair? Its not.

But to just knowingly take guys you think can play knowing that if it doesn't work out you can just dump him 2 years down the line isn't right. And that is what is happening.

And as far as college teaching the kids about life. I don't know about you. But I teach my kids that loyalty means something. I teach them that if you commit to something you are **** well going to finish it. I know that isn't how life is always but having character or integrity isn't always easy. Forgive me for thinking a college football coach should have a little....

I am done....

Blah blah blah, its only a problem because Alabama does it and UT does not. You act like college football is so clean and pure and this oversigning in the devil. With all the evil that goes on in CFB and the SEC, you wanna talk about integrity? L.O.L.

This isnt high school. This is big time football. How is it a character flaw to cut a kid who isnt living up to his end of the bargain?

Why was this kid given a scholarship to LSU? To play football and contribute to the team. If he cant do that, why should he keep his scholarship?
A scholarship IS NOT A FOUR YEAR DEAL. You know that, I know that, every single player knows that. They have to be renewed every single year.
A coach CANNOT guarantee a kid will be there for four years, thats a fact.

Answer this, which you have danced around this whole time;

Why should these kids get four free years of school if they cant live up to their end of the bargain? There are hundreds and hundreds of kids out there who would kill for a one year shot at a big time college, why should a kid who cannot do it be given a free ride?
The kid can transfer, go somewhere else, etc. Its not as if their career stops if LSU cuts them. They can always go somewhere else and play. So explain that.
Whats wrong with a school expecting a kid to live up to his end of the bargain?

If im on an academic scholarship and my grades fall to all D's, does a school let me stay for four years because they gave me a scholarship? HELL no.
Why should football be any different?

Im done, because theres nothing you can possibly say to refute my argument.

[hoocus]

Kids are told they are guaranteed one year, with the option to renew. It is VERY rare, even in the cicumstances were are talking about here, for a kid to get a scholarship cut unless they screw up. By NCAA rules they cannot be cut because of athletic performance, look it up. Football gets 85 scholarships per year, if you figure 14 medicals over 4 years that equates to roughly 4% of those athletes being put on a medical. That is higher than other D1 schools, true, but not really that great a number in the overall scheme of things. And, like someone else pointed out, they still get their education paid for.

IF we were talking about cutting the scholarship altogether so they couldn't attend school, that would be a different story, but that rarely happens, and when it does it is almost always deserved. Most scholarships that are changed over 4 years are INCREASED, not decreased. Go look at the NCAA's webpage, they keep stats on all this stuff.

Personally, I would see nothing wrong with having some type of performance clause in the scholarship contract, especially for the junior and senior season at D1 schools. And I would also see nothing wrong with the school requiring players who leave early to go to the pros being required to repay their scholarships. Take it out of their signing bonuses.

[Biggin]

To add on that good post;
Nick Saban: Grayshirts not treated unfairly | TideSports.com


Alabama NEVER springs it on a kid that they will be greyshirted. The ones that may greyshirt are always 100% aware they may be asked to greyshirt.

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I would say Tidesports would agree with what he is doing.....

Here is another take..... from a little more credible source.....

NCAA Football news, scores, rankings - College Football - SI.com

[heneedsa]

Unfortunately this is one of the gray area's that the NCAA has allowed to blossom into a problem. I never heard of this until about three years ago, when the SEC instituted the "Houston Nut rule", but upon further study found out that this has been going on forever. Alabama is said to be King of this behavior. I was told by family in Alabama, that Bear Bryant would sign 70, 80 kids per year and put them on track scholarships, tennis scholarships, and even swimming scholarships. The NCAA, and SEC, need to take the gray area and make it black and white.

[Biggin]

Except thats false H, not one bit true.

FIVE SEC teams have signed more players in the last five years than Alabama

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ata/index.html


and what was so reprehensible about that article posted? He did nothing to refute anything Saban said except provide his own judgement calls. How the hell does he know what type of injuries happen at Alabama? Or what Saban tells recruits?
The standard of play in the SEC, even in practice, is much higher than anywhere else. Yall UT fans know that. So why is it so ludicrous to believe that more kids get hurt because its at a higher level? He uses Ohio State, but Bama just beat the brakes off a Big 10 co-champion and could have beaten them by a hundred. So obviously the SEC plays different ball than the Big 10.

[VOL61]

Bama doesn't have any more injuries than anyone else. You know why these kids are being put on these medical's..... to free up space. They have 6 more than the nearest SEC school.

And you know as well as I Saban isn't going in these recruits living rooms telling them he is going to look at the scholarship every year and decide if he wants to renew it or not. Same goes for Nutt and Miles and others..... these guys could sell ice to eskimos....

I think it is clear to everyone what is happening at Ole Miss, LSU, and Bama. Along with some other schools. I think 8 schools oversigned this year across the country and 6 of those where from the SEC. Now some people don't have a problem with that and that is up to them. But I will have a problem if Dooley does it and he may do it. But I think the NCAA should act on it just like the Big 10 already has and the Big 12 is in the process of doing.

JMO....