EXECUTION!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]


You're trying to make it personal and you're out of line with that statement.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, just trying to illustrate a point.

That point being that you'd rather see a dictator murder, rape, pillage, and fart than have right be done.

LOL! I think they're already there!

I quit. I refuse to argue with people with zero cmmunication skills and the inability to read and comprehend asimple statement.

I make a post and all you apparently semi-illiterates can get out of it is "execution bad."

ok so our whole point is that no one deserves to be murdered...so you come up with the gem that we are saying that we would like to see a dictator murder his people...uummmm, what???

[ QUOTE ]
I give up.

I make a post and all you apparently semi-illiterates can get out of it is "execution bad."

That is not the argument here.




[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Then what is the argument? That people are going to be pissed off because the Iraqi government found their former dictator guilty of crimes against the country and executed him?

Nobody should give a flying blue [censored] if it pisses anyone off. [censored] them off enough and perhaps we'll have an excuse to turn the whole place into a flat piece of glass.

Then again, you just love to play that 'I'm so educated and higher-minded than all you inbred rednecks and hillbillies' card, don't you?

[ QUOTE ]
Really? Then what is the argument? That people are going to be pissed off because the Iraqi government found their former dictator guilty of crimes against the country and executed him?

Nobody should give a flying blue [censored] if it pisses anyone off. [censored] them off enough and perhaps we'll have an excuse to turn the whole place into a flat piece of glass.

Then again, you just love to play that 'I'm so educated and higher-minded than all you inbred rednecks and hillbillies' card, don't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wall.gif[/img]

ok. No clue where this is coming from.
Again - read what I'm actually saying - not what you want me to be saying so that you can argue a point that isn't there.

And if you feel inferior - that's your own business. I never brought that card up - you did.

as much as you love to play the "I'm 'Merican and yor a communist!" card

[ QUOTE ]
ok so our whole point is that no one deserves to be murdered...so you come up with the gem that we are saying that we would like to see a dictator murder his people...uummmm, what???

[/ QUOTE ]

Will execution resurrect the victims? No. But it will provide some semblance of revenge to those who survived the dictator's atrocities.

The man deserved to die. If you can't see that... [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wall.gif[/img]

Do you even know what your point is? At one moment you're crying about how this execution will foment anti-American sentiment. Then you're crying about how bad murder is. Then how bad it is to celebrate the death of a pathetic excuse for a human being.

The Bible does say alot of things, that is why there is a old and new testament. The old and new both talk about wars and rumors of wars, Jesus himself spoke about this. Jesus himself will be in the last war. So don't see why people think a court of law handing down execution on someone who killed many lives themself think it is wrong to be put to death. Sadaam sealed his own fate IMO, no matter the way he died. He shortened his own days by the actions he took during his life here on earth. Imagine the world today if we all did what he done, and knowing that we wouldn't have to give up our own life if we took anothers away.

The old testament men had many wives, but the new testament Jesus said one woman for one man, thou shall not commit adultry. So you can't use the old to argue this.

Sadaam was a evil man to even his own people. There were two men who died on a cross right beside of Jesus, now one man said to the other they deserved the punishment that was given to them--execution--Jesus did not speak against that. For he suffered what was law himself. He also obeyed the law, he payed taxes, he was born into a justice system and abode by the law. Why is it any different today to obey our law. There are some things I don't like about laws today, but I can't just go out and do as I will and not pay the price for it. Had Sadaam not done the crimes he done then he would be alive today. So how is that anyones fault he is dead now? I see why Jehovah Witnesses don't believe in hell, they don't want to accept that there is a GOd who also judges and will recompensate and reward according to our works. God expects the same on earth, a system that is governed by the people, for the people. Not a world where anyone can go out commit terrible crimes and walk away free.

I don't really have a problem with people not being in favor of capital punishment.

That being said, I would love for the majority of them who aren't to have their child raped and killed by someone, especially if it was someone who has been guilty of things before.

I'm kind of confident that if things like that happen, 95% or more would change their mind.

Likewise, if someone had a close relative who did some horrible things and was getting executed, they may find their views slightly changed.

point = dont act like idiots and dance on a man's grave.
let them carry out the sentence. move on. end of story.

And yes - the celebration will help further fuel anti-American sentiment and give cause for increasing violence specifically towards Americans by the Saddam loyalists.

I never tried to argue how bad murder is. Thats not in this thread. I was prodded into discussing my view on it, I gave my response but still tried to get my simple point across. But you wanted it to be bigger than that - you wanted to argue a point that didn't exist. You tried to prod it into different subjects.
You just want to argue!

Jesus never spoke about not killing people?? interesting...

[ QUOTE ]
point = dont act like idiots and dance on a man's grave.
let them carry out the sentence. move on. end of story.



[/ QUOTE ]

I'd take a big steaming dump on his grave if I could.

Same goes for Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.

Perhaps one of these days I'll be able to visit FDR's grave.

Had Sadaam been a man who was innocent and someone just killed him then yes I see that as murder. But when one is convicted of a crime and given a punishment of death then no I don't see that as murder. Neither will Jesus when he himself will battle in the war of Armageddon. That is the point I am trying to make.

I really must be missing the celebrations myself. Obviously Sadam was an enemy of our country. Its typical to be glad when an enemy is gone/eliminated. I'm pretty confident that there will be a potion of the world, particularly in the Middle East who will be glad when Bush is gone/dead.

The difference in us/them and us celebrating is, we are happy that a brutal dictator is gone. We don't celebrate when a bunch of innocent Iraqi people get killed. Shoot, we don't even celebrate when we end up having to kill a bunch of the insurgents. I'm sure the soliders are glad to eliminate some threats, but joy/glee? Not seeing it. Now look when innocents in our country die. Celebrations. That's the difference in things.

did Jesus say to love your neighbors, including your enemies? yes, he did...would Jesus condone any killing whatsoever of any child of God? no, he would not...like it or not Saddam is a child of God just as are you and I

And did not encourage his people to go to war, in which we are....

Yes Jesus did say to love your neighbors and enemies. But he did not say to not obey the law. He also gave man enough wisdom to not go out into the world and kill innocent men,women and children. So I still don't think that in the eyes of God that having a justice system with the death penalty is wrong. Jesus did not say while on the cross that the execution was against his commandments. One must pay for their crimes even if it is by death. That is my opinion. I believe Jesus also says in his word to obey the law of the land, like he did when he was alive. Execution was law in his time, did he stop one execution and say it was wrong, no he also suffered execution himself.

Not to be rude bro. But doesn't that depend on the God you serve.
He prayed for victory while invading Kuwait. That didn't happen.
Yet he told his people or followers, they would be victorious? Because his God had told him?
I think your hitting an area where it becomes a religious belief.
Personally to me. I don't like killing of anyone. But when a person commits murders. Without any reason or motive, how do you justify them not being punished.
As most in that area see it. Old testament an eye for an eye.
Sad but true.
Will it hurt us in the long run. Us the U.S. yes. Due to the radicals in Iraq.

Should this man been put to death just for his crimes against humanity. Absolutely. Under the laws of any country.
Now under what God you serve. That may be different.

he accepted the execution because he was dying for the sins of others and there wasn't any other way

[ QUOTE ]
But he did not say to not obey the law.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
believe Jesus also says in his word to obey the law of the land

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe im missing something, but those seem to contrast one another

we can break this down easy if you'd like...

all humans no matter how sinful, are a child of God, correct?

is Saddam a human? check (don't even try to make some lame argument against him being a human)

did Jesus speak out about causing harm to God's children (even if the one being harmed has caused harm to another)? yes, he did

is death by hanging causing harm to someone? ummm, check

thus hanging Saddam is killing one of God's children, no matter what argument you try to make nothing will change that fact

You can make all the good points, and yes I know God loves us all no matter the sin we commit. For we all have sinned. But we can also seperate ourselves from God when we disobey. Also just because we are born into this world and God loves us all doesn't give us a right to commit terrible crimes and say God loves me so you can't execute me because I committed crimes. God gave man wisdom, why is it always someone else's fault if we disobey and don't want to pay the price for it. There will be many who will not want even judgement after they die too, but whether on earth or heaven or hell we will be judged or rewarded. That is how I believe. Don't matter if others feel different, that is between them and their God.

Not directing this post at anyone. Even if Saddam had not been executed- there still would be a lot of hostility toward us. The Sunnis hate our guts for pushing them out of a priviledged position to lord it over the other groups. The Shia do not trust us because we gave them no support in their attempts to oust Saddam in the early nineties. The only real friends we have are the Kurds- who are bound to be less than happy with the Iraq Study Group. Complicating all of this is the pressure of Arab nationalism and Muslim fundamentalism- both aggravated by our support of Israel. No matter what we do- as long as we are seen as the chief supporters of Israel in the Israeli -Palestinian conflict we would have the common people of Iraq (except the Kurds) against us. At least the execution will create a bit of good will for us among the Shia- I doubt it will last very long. I knew Iraqis years ago who were refugees from Saddam- he does belong in the company of Robespierre, Hitler, Stalin, Pol-Pot, and Idi Amin. He received his just desserts. Sic semper tyrannis!

Take Sadaam for an example. A cruel mean man, who killed, had ordered even children raped and killed. Sounds like a man without love, but even this man can repent and be saved. Yes he will be called a child of God,rewarded in heaven with a robe and crown. But that don't change the fact that he still will reap on earth what he sowed on earth. He sowed murder,hate,lies,rape and etc. he will also reap that in some way. He will also have to answer to a court of law if he is convicted of these crimes. That is all I am saying. Yes one can be saved and become a child of God, but that don't exclude them from being tried and convicted while here on earth.

I think that there is something about following the rules of men.

If you want to be completely sure, here are some suggestions.

Do not go to school. Some of the tax money comes from lottery, the sale of alcohol, etc.

Do not drive a car on the road, because likewise you are allowing yourself to benefit from money that came from sin

he will reap on earth what he sowed on earth, but it doesn't make either right

The man tortured and killed and benefitted. He is now dead. that is the truth of it all.
What will happen. Those who followed him and his idealogy will keep that going.
Our troops will suffer.
Other than that. You have a man hanged for his sins. By a peer of his own.
Our justice system in some ways.
So if Saddam was and his sentence was wrong. Then our justice system is wrong.
A juror by peers to prove your innocence or guilt.
His guilt was determined and so was his sentence.
If it was all wrong then our system is totally wrong.

no...youre saying a=b so b=c...youre skipping a little bit...a trial by jury isn't what's wrong, the sentence is what's wrong...

was he guilty, yes...no one here is disputing that

and ive heard time and time again people coming on here and talkin about how corrupt our justice system is...you being one of them

If taking a human life is murder in every instance, without exception, then I have a feeling we probably have several members on this board who are "murderers". I just don't understand how anybody can see it that way.

Saddam was a true murderer. He was a tyrant and a butcher. He was responsible for between 1.5 and 2 million deaths total. He personally ordered the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people. Some of his victims were tortured for days before they met a terrible death. He used biological weapons to murder his own people. He ordered his own sons in law murdered. If all killing is the same does this mean our troops are the same as Saddam? I certainly hope not.

Saddam was tried and convicted in a court of law. He was executed by that same court for the terrible crimes he committed. I didn't dance and sing when he was hanged, but if he had murdered someone in my family I probably would have.

In spite of all the crimes he committed, Saddam was given every opportunity to remain in power. He ignored UN resolution after UN resolution. There is nobody to blame for Saddam's death except Saddam.

I'm anti death penalty in most cases too. But:

The actual translation from the Greek is "Thou shall not murder" not "Thou shall not kill".

Saddam had been responsible for the deaths of at least one million plus people. Among his favorite past-times and that of his sons was to watch women being raped and tortured while their husbands and or children were forced to watch too. He also like to record these events for his entertainment later as well.

He HAD to be executed and here's why. He had tortured and killed members of most every Iraqi family's grandparents generation, of their parents generation, of their generation, and of their children's generation. It was like he was a living Satan to these people. Remember that he was in jail awaiting execution not long before he took over the country in the first place.

If there is ever to be any kind of stability in Iraq he had to be executed, otherwise a very large portion of their population would live in fear of his return and act accordingly.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm anti death penalty in most cases too. But:

The actual translation from the Greek is "Thou shall not murder" not "Thou shall not kill".

Saddam had been responsible for the deaths of at least one million plus people. Among his favorite past-times and that of his sons was to watch women being raped and tortured while their husbands and or children were forced to watch too. He also like to record these events for his entertainment later as well.

He HAD to be executed and here's why. He had tortured and killed members of most every Iraqi family's grandparents generation, of their parents generation, of their generation, and of their children's generation. It was like he was a living Satan to these people. Remember that he was in jail awaiting execution not long before he took over the country in the first place.

If there is ever to be any kind of stability in Iraq he had to be executed, otherwise a very large portion of their population would live in fear of his return and act accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely with one exception. I am in favor of capitol punishment.

I'm against the death penalty for one reason. Without a doubt we have put innocent people to death. By some reasonable estimates up to 3 to 5% of those executed (even .5% is too high). In my opinion we do far more harm to justice with one faulty execution than a thousand correct ones does in favor of justice. Your system is broken or at least cracked and until we can be sure that everyone we put to death is guilty then I'll be anti death penalty.

I don't agree with your position, but I do respect it.

I have skimmed through most of this, trying to hit the peoples post I respect the most on this.

I am not seeing a great celebration for Saddam's hanging across the US. Mainly Iraqi refugees who are now American citizens who faced, or had family who faced Saddam's brutality. That said, there is more celebration in Iraq for his death than in the US.

Yes there probably will be a slight increase in US casualties for a week or so because of this. Let's remember that the Sunni's are actually a minority in Iraq, compared to the Shiites, and Kurds. That is part of the reason that there is more celebration, than condemnation for this.

I too am for capital punishment, especially in cases such as this. I do not find it cruel or unusual, as it has been used for centuries to hang someone.

Yes you have heard me say it has it's flaws.

However there is cases that don't leave much of the truth to look for.

Saddam in his beginning was a good man. Power destroyed him and led him to be a ruthless killer of anyone who opposed him.

Our system has it's flaws.
And no i don't think the hanging of Saddam helped anything. Except those who got relief from seeing him hanged. Those who maybe he tortured.

Taking a life is never good. But in some cases it is all that is left that can be taken to rewrite the wrong, that was done. Yes that sounds harsh. But how else do you seek justice.

We still live under some versions of the old testament even in our justice system. An eye for an eye.

I know what your saying in someways. But no one here as i see it is having a big party over Saddam being hanged for his crimes against humanity.
Most are more worried about our troops and what repercussions this will bring to them.

We have flaws in our system. It needs some work.
But i think in this case. It did work. A man who tortured and killed, raged wars etc. was given a sentence that our system uses.
The man's guilt was proven daily by his own actions and words. In the end. Those who sought justice got it. It may seem harsh, but that was kind of reaping what you sow.
He murdered and killed and executed people for any cause. In the end. Maybe it come back to him.

I am not celebrating over this. I haven't seen all that much celebration on here anyway.

That being said, justice was served. He only had himself to blame. I hate that it had to happen. But then again I hate more that he destroyed lives.

Sometimes there's just no other way to serve justice than capital punishment.

He's no longer hurting people anymore.

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes there's just no other way to serve justice than capital punishment.

He's no longer hurting people anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

True- but then again he wouldn't be hurting anyone locked away for the rest of his life.

John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (KJV)

[ QUOTE ]


True- but then again he wouldn't be hurting anyone locked away for the rest of his life.



[/ QUOTE ]

He was in prison awaiting execution just before he took control of power the first time. Over a million people were murdered and many millions tortured and raped because he wasn't executed quickly enough that time.

Even if a repeat of history is unlikely the people of Iraq who lived through those terrible decades would be unable to rest not knowing if it could happen again.

I'm glad the murderous thug is gone...May he rest in eternal torment!