Tell me....

What are everyones thoughts or opinions on Religion being in the government? Should it be there? Would that make it a Theocracy? Here are my thoughts on it: I feel like without God being in the decisions of the government we will surely fall... it is only a matter of time. It began with our founding fathers and their belief in God... and their belief that God is all Soverign and we should adhere to the Bible .. yes even in government. I have been studying the founding fathers and I have learned so many things... but the sad thing is that we have moved so far away from how it was meant to be.Should our government be God ruled? I n my opinion it should and hey look at it this way: Once we get to heaven he rules there... so we better just get used to it [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif[/img]

[CoeburnCane]

My thought--look throughout history. Religion, when mixed with politics, is used as a shield to knock back any resistance or questioning of methods or motives for what the government tries to do. It's used to keep those that question at a distance, and paints any dissenting parties as committing blasphemy and treason all at the same time, basically neutralizing any ideas contrary to the ruling religion.

People are less likely to complain or question someone (or really--some government) who claims a religion as their basis of rule, even when it's completely valid to do so. It takes away the masses ability to be logically skeptical of the government and what they do because it's kind of a taboo to question someone if they're doing it from a frame of reference of religion--it makes you look like you're downing the religion and not their methods or motives by which they rule. Democracy's supposed to be based on the free exchange of ideas on how to run things, and religious influence takes away the ability to feel comfortable enough for all of us to freely exchange those ideas.

IMO--religion + government = sure fire disaster & possible dictatorship. Democracy and religious rule cannot coexist, history has proven this, see both the major revolutions (French & American).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yankeebaseball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What religion though?
Christians will say Christian influence is ok, Muslims would say Muslim influence is ok, Jews would say Jewish influence is ok.
What though if someone doesnt agree, how would someone like someone from another religion allowing their views to come across in your government?

I know the US is based on religious influence, but the use of the word GOD, does not specifially say which one. Now, Im not going to debate the religious backgrounds of our forefathers, but still, the idea of the seperation of church and state is a good idea in my opinion. </div></div>

What are you? Are you a Christian? respectfully that is what is wrong with us.. we are afraid to stand up because we will be labeled as intolerant or something. Do not get me wrong I like Democracy and all.. but as a Christian I believe that one day in Heaven God will be the ruler of al the earth.. he is now.. he is still in control.. but with that being said.. you say which God? Well humbly I say their is only one and that is the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, and the God of the Universe.

[sup-rbeast]

The majority of our forefathers were "deists"..which is quite foreign in thought to current religious thought. That being said..there is nothing wrong with the use of "religious" words and symbols in government...but that is the limit...IMO religion has no place in government...even if laws are based on morals and commandments set forth in religion. If you want to see what religion does when it is mixed with government all ya have to do is look to the middle east. No freedom at all PERIOD.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My thought--look throughout history. Religion, when mixed with politics, is used as a shield to knock back any resistance or questioning of methods or motives for what the government tries to do. It's used to keep those that question at a distance, and paints any dissenting parties as committing blasphemy and treason all at the same time, basically neutralizing any ideas contrary to the ruling religion.

People are less likely to complain or question someone (or really--some government) who claims a religion as their basis of rule, even when it's completely valid to do so. It takes away the masses ability to be logically skeptical of the government and what they do because it's kind of a taboo to question someone if they're doing it from a frame of reference of religion--it makes you look like you're downing the religion and not their methods or motives by which they rule. Democracy's supposed to be based on the free exchange of ideas on how to run things, and religious influence takes away the ability to feel comfortable enough for all of us to freely exchange those ideas.

IMO--religion + government = sure fire disaster & possible dictatorship. Democracy and religious rule cannot coexist, history has proven this, see both the major revolutions (French & American). </div></div>

I think it could be used as a shield... but what if we really had Godly men in the government that was obedient to God and also had accountability on the way that they govern.. sort of like an Eldership.. where no one man decides anything by themselves.. but they come together and seek God to find answers?
Your right though Democracy and True Christianity could not co-exist because God is the final say so in a Theocracy and in a democracy the majority rule.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The majority of our forefathers were "deists"..which is quite foreign in thought to current religious thought. That being said..there is nothing wrong with the use of "religious" words and symbols in government...but that is the limit...IMO religion has no place in government...even if laws are based on morals and commandments set forth in religion. If you want to see what religion does when it is mixed with government all ya have to do is look to the middle east. No freedom at all PERIOD. </div></div>

That is a pretty good assesment but through my own study some of the founding fathers through history were only labeled to be deists.. they never claimed to be... I can label anyone with any name... the reason I say this is some of them that were labeled as deists were actually by their own words Christians.. so there is really no facts to support most of it... but on the other hand there are overwhelming facts that support we are a Chrsitain Nation. And if God truely be in control.. but the religion that is found in the Middle East at least the one that is seen is of evil and not of a loving God.. uh oh.. just made a few made.. but just trying to be honest here.. and yes evil will destroy. But How we operate now in the government... is no worse in a different way... that is why we will be demoted.. and no longer the most powerful country on the face of the earth. We must stand up and allow God to rule.. and his Bible to govern. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

[sup-rbeast]

well...Ben Franklin, for one, went on the record..here's an excerpt:
Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington, for some of whom the evidence is mixed.[33] However, Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist."[34]

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but what if we really had Godly men in the government that was obedient to God and also had accountability on the way that they govern.. sort of like an Eldership.. where no one man decides anything by themselves.. but they come together and seek God to find answers?</div></div>

You're mixing up two things that are dangerous to mix--men (imperfect human beings) making decisions based on what they are inspired to make by God (a perfect deity). Due to free will combined with our own imperfect hearts and minds, no matter how Godly or how many of these great men we get together, I don't feel they'll ever get what God truly wills to be right.

Also--who are we to say that this group of men are "Godly men"? Are they Godly according to Christianity? Judaism? Islam? Bhuddism? You must remember--the good ole' USA's a melting pot of different religions, and though to a Christian like yourself and I it may be ideal to have a Congress full of God's chosen own legislating over our country, it's not that way for any other religion.

You're zoned in way too much on the religion part of this and not the government part. Thinking of the ideal is nice, but how you govern is dictated by what you're governing. If the US were 100% Christian, you'd have nothing but amens on this thread. The simple fact is that it's not--it's a lot more diverse and complicated of a subject.

And I think you went over the line with this comment to YB:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are you? Are you a Christian? respectfully that is what is wrong with us.. we are afraid to stand up because we will be labeled as intolerant or something.</div></div>

I took that as you questioning his belief as a Christian, which you shouldn't be doing, not on here. Judge lest ye be judged. I feel he took what you said the same way as evidenced by his post that you quoted now being gone, and apparently deleted. You really disrespected his opinion on this subject, and at the same time questioned his faith. That ain't right man...

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pac-Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the reason I say this is some of them that were labeled as deists were actually by their own words Christians..</div></div>

...or as you interpreted what their words meant to be said to you that they were not Deists but Christians.

It's all in how you perceive what they said man. You don't know exactly what they meant, only they could tell us, and unfortunately--those cats are long gone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well...Ben Franklin, for one, went on the record..here's an excerpt:
Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington, for some of whom the evidence is mixed.[33] However, Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist."[34] </div></div>


IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RIGHTLEY GOVERN THE WORLD WITHOUT GOD AND THE BIBLE- GEORGE WASHINGTON

I am not saying some of them wasn't all I am saying is America was founded on Christian Principles.... If Old Chris Columbus were here he would tell us that. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]