End of Christianity...

[R13]

What atheist countries are you referring to that are so much better off?

Never said they were "better off". I was talking about crime rates, teen pregnancy rates, divorce rates etc. I'll try to find the most recent study, but Japan, France and Sweden were near the top.

[Gotch]

*"There are plenty of scriptures that support violence, killing, war...so it's rooted into the religion of Christianity too. "God" ordered a lot of killings, whether or not it was politically motivated or not..it was still in the name of the Christian God."*

You are either simply pulling your arguments from a webpage, or if they are coming from learned knowledge then you apparently have an issue with reading comprehension.

The violence in the Old Testament is either a historical narrative or more rarely a statement of condoning self preservation (ie self-defense) Most, in fact nearly all OT violence is historical narrative. An account of a close-ended, specific conflict.

Whereas Islamic scripture is full of open-ended orders for on-going conflict. Do you not perceive the difference, or have you not actually read them? Some quick example:

From the Quran- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides..."

From The Hadith - "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.."

"Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

There are literally hundreds of verses like this in Islamic scripture, they are an order, a command to carry out the actions as stated. Whereas OT scripture is a recounting of past events.

*"I didn't say Jesus and God were the same, I said Jesus never disagrees with God in the Bible. So you can use the old testament and say thats what we are supposed to live by today, but Jesus never condemned nothing in the old testament or what God did."*

Actually you did say or implied that they were one in the same, but.......by your assessment Christians are still ordered not to eat pork? An eye for an eye is Jesus' way? Jesus condoned the stoning of adulterers? I believe you must be speaking from either a position of prejudice or ignorance of the facts.

*"Never said Muslims haven't been violent, just saying Christians have done the same for longer. I'm not Islamic so it doesn't hurt my feelings much to say the muslims have certainly been violent and killed. Never excused anything, if I did you have done the same with Christianity. Both religions are bad for you IMO."*

No, Christians have not done the "same" for "longer". There have been isolated cases of violent behavior by large groups done in the name of the Christian God. These are unfortunate and were the result of evil and or misdirected people. However, they are not pandemic nor unceasing as in the case of Islamic violence done in the name of Allah.

*"My whole point was that just because you believe in Christianity, it doesn't make you a better person or have better morals. I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but as i've said, I understand why people cling to it. IMO when we stop leaning on Christianity, we'll be a lot better off."*

Yeah, China is showcase for human rights and North Korea a blueprint for world peace......

[1inStripes]

Are you referring to the flawed Greg Paul piece?

[Gotch]

Never said they were "better off". I was talking about crime rates, teen pregnancy rates, divorce rates etc. I'll try to find the most recent study, but Japan, France and Sweden were near the top.

According to a recent UN study the best countries to live in are

1. Iceland - over 90% Christian

2.Norway - over 90% Christian

3. Australia - you Know.....

4.Canada - you know again....

5.Ireland - Bunch of no religion goons...

6.Sweden

7.Switzerland - do I need to go on?

[R13]

No, I actually don't do that and usually link my stuff if i use it.
Dress it up however you want, its still no better than what you quoted from the Koran.God ordered plenty of killings, not much of a God.

Christianity is no better than Islam or any of the other religions. And certainly is no better when it comes to violence and is definitely up to par in the BS dept.


"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." --Matthew 10:34

"I and the Father are one." -- John 10:30


He said it, not me.





And I have no idea where China and North Korea came from, never mentioned them once. It was a comparison with rates...moral rates haha.....rates that a country with 3/4s of its people being christian should have better numbers than the godless countries. Not the case, because it does not give you morals or make you a better person. Plain and simple.

[1inStripes]

The China and N. Korea comment probably came from the fact that they are communist countries that do not have any religious ties to their government.

When you say God ordered killings, are you referring to things like the flood, and Sodom and Gemorrea?

[Gotch]

"Dress it up however you want, its still no better than what you quoted from the Koran.God ordered plenty of killings, not much of a God."

In other words, you have no real response? Simply run out of arguments to support your position and are now falling back upon your personal dislike of Christians and Christianity?

"Christianity is no better than Islam or any of the other religions. And certainly is no better when it comes to violence and is definitely up to par in the BS dept."

I've already addressed this repeatedly. Christianity can't hold a candle to Islam for consistent, systematic and scripture supported violence. Although any violence done in the name of God is wrong and unfortunate there is a major difference in proportion. This difference in proportion is historically evident to anyone who actually cares to look at evidence rather than just spout rhetoric.

It can be reasonably assumed that this glaring difference in proportion is inextricably tied to the hate filled scriptures written by the murderer and pedophile who serves as the religion's prophet and are so fervently adhered to by many of it's followers.

So, you are comparing:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." --Matthew 10:34

To:

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides..."

LOL @ You

I notice you didn't respond to my question about the eating of pork, Christ's support for the stoning of adulterers or an eye for an eye.

Unless this is it:

"I and the Father are one." ?



"And I have no idea where China and North Korea came from, never mentioned them once."

You mentioned them in proxy, or are you not even aware of that?

"It was a comparison with rates...moral rates haha.....rates that a country with 3/4s of its people being christian should have better numbers than the godless countries. Not the case, because it does not give you morals or make you a better person. Plain and simple."

Okay..........not sure how to respond since I have no idea what it is suppose to mean.

I'm going to guess as to it's meaning and reply:

You presented no evidence to support this / your *statement*????

I did show that each of the top seven nations in terms of quality of life for it's citizens are all Christian nations. It is reasonable to assume that quality of life for citizens of a nation could be tied to the moral standards of it's population.

[R13]

"In other words, you have no real response? Simply run out of arguments to support your position and are now falling back upon your personal dislike of Christians and Christianity?"


It's hard to try to argue when someone has that much resentment towards a religion and chooses not to recognize the faults of his own..but if you must...


Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you into pieces, and there be nothing to deliver. - Pslam 50:22

Now go, attack them and destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them, put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. - Sam 15:3

However, in the cities of the nations the lord your God is giving, do not leave anything alive that breathes. - Deut 20:16

Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction. The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant. - Jer 4:6-7



And so on and so on, it's the word.


All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. So that the man of God be equipped for every good work. - Tim 2:16-17


And it also said that God never changes, so I guess he still kills babies and the inferiority complex is still there.



But all of that is just historical account of course, God didn't say kill any infants or wasn't really that jealous. Though you write off almost every major instance in history when Christians were the instigators and did the slaughtering. No, not them. Of course the numbers are in the favor of the muslims, you ignore every part of Christian history when they have killed millions upon millions. Can't reason with that denial logic.




Well I'm looking at those murder rates, teen preg rates prison population etc. instead of the completely irrelevant UN study you presented. I have no idea what is had to do with "moral" countries, but if you want to use it, we will.

First of all, it was based on figures for life expectancy, educational levels and per capita income. How does that pertain to this and morals? I have no idea, but lets pretend it does. So to answer your question, yes you should have went on. It would have shown that the U.S. ranked 15th on this list that somehow has relation to morals. It would have also shown that those nations I mentioned were all ranked ahead of the U.S. Why is that important? Because even though these countries have the 90 percent christians, the US has more christians than all of those countries combined. So in this moral study that has nothing to do with morals, this country which is very populated with christians - more than all of those combined - ranks 15th and behind the heavily atheist populated nations I mentioned.

[1inStripes]

Your Bible comprehension is pretty lacking Im afraid. Read more than one verse to get the full meaning. Your Psalms quote is dictation/praise from one of David's musicians Asaph.

The order in Samuel is to go and crush Amalekites who were a rival tribe who had repeatedly attacked the Hebrews. They were basically atheist, and God ordered Saul to take the Hebrews and wipe them out.

Its not an inferiority complex. Its that those who chose not to accept his ways can be dealt with severely if they do not abide by his commandments.

[buckeye_fan]

those who chose not to accept his ways can be dealt with severely if they do not abide by his commandments.

What a loving god...