End of Christianity...

**Gotch** · April 22nd, 2009, 08:26 PM

Wow, some of the feature on this site are really puzzling me?

Edited post

Sorry

Continue........

**Gotch** · April 22nd, 2009, 08:50 PM

"But again I still ask, what did the UN survey have to do with it?"

I did take your original point in a different direction than you intended, I did this due to not carefully reading the entire subject. My bad....

But, I think it was still valid in its own right.

Now, as I remember your contention was that France, Japan, and (Sweden?) had a high rate of atheists and among the worlds highest morals?

My first response would be that you provided no information to back that statement.

My next response would be that Japan is actually very religious, just not Christian. I believe about 90% identify themselves as Buddhists, Shinto, or a mixture of the two.

Next would be that I feel it has been established fairly strongly that Sweden's atheist rate is no higher than ours, Dr. Zuckerman aside.....

Next would be, I ain't so sure those three actually have high moral standards.

**Gotch** · April 22nd, 2009, 08:59 PM

"Not angry at anyone, I never called anyone any name and IMO was pretty calm throughout the debate...and most of yall(the ones actually doing the debating) have returned the favor and didn't do that either."

I agree, you've handled yourself pretty well. You got a little "excited" I believe. Hard to tell on the other end of a keyboard. Maybe came close to argument ad hominem a couple of times. Overall though, for a young guy without much experience you have done very well, especially considering you are on THE WRONG SIDE OF THE DEBATE!!!!!

**Gotch** · April 23rd, 2009, 07:28 AM

"I also used the religious site that wouldn't be biased towards it, Sweden IMO has an atheist majority."

The site gives no insight whatsoever into the percentage of athiests population.

**collegetrumpet2010** · April 23rd, 2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Biggin

you guys twist his words and attack him vigorously

I wasn't twisting his words nor was I attacking him. Just bringing up a point.

And maybe someone's moral views shouldn't dictate but still, it's their right to vote based on their moral views.

**Jason** · April 24th, 2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Burton13

No, but I definitely think its a good thing.

I feel so sorry for you and the ones that agree with you. You are definately in my prayers.

**R13** · April 25th, 2009, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Gotch

"But again I still ask, what did the UN survey have to do with it?"

I did take your original point in a different direction than you intended, I did this due to not carefully reading the entire subject. My bad....

But, I think it was still valid in its own right.

Now, as I remember your contention was that France, Japan, and (Sweden?) had a high rate of atheists and among the worlds highest morals?

My first response would be that you provided no information to back that statement.

My next response would be that Japan is actually very religious, just not Christian. I believe about 90% identify themselves as Buddhists, Shinto, or a mixture of the two.

Next would be that I feel it has been established fairly strongly that Sweden's atheist rate is no higher than ours, Dr. Zuckerman aside.....

Next would be, I ain't so sure those three actually have high moral standards.

Wait, you admit to atleast 17% are atheists, right? But we have 3-9%, thats about twice the percentage.

And why wouldn't they?

**R13** · April 25th, 2009, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

I feel so sorry for you and the ones that agree with you. You are definately in my prayers.

Appreciate that, but save them for others. I am doing pretty good right now, a lot others worse off..not just then me, but everyone. People are dying, suffering and basically getting a shitty life. They need all the help they can get.

**Gotch** · April 25th, 2009, 09:24 PM

"And why wouldn't they?"

Why wouldn't they what?

Have a higher moral standard?

You're the one who made the unsubstantiated claim that they do. I simply expressed a degree of doubt about it. It's not up to me to substantiate a doubt.

But it is up to you to substantiate your claim.

and while your at it you could answer my (repeatedly asked) question concerning Jesus and the changing of the law concerning stoning of adulterers, eating of pork, and an eye for an eye.

**R13** · April 25th, 2009, 09:51 PM

First of all I never said they have "higher" morals. I've said it numerous times and I'll say it again...

The whole point is that just because you believe in Christianity, that doesn't mean you are a better person or have better morals...and just because you are an atheist/agnostic, doesn't mean you are a bad person and have none.

And yes, I backed that up. The whole prison population argument pretty much took care of that part.

I've ignored it because I have no idea what it's relevance is. I say the Old Testament is full of violence and you say the New is really what we are supposed to follow. So we ignore the old? You're saying thats the radical part and because Christianity has gotten older and we've realized that it's outdated and not supposed to do things like that. I've said before, I love Jesus...good people.