End of Christianity...

[collegetrumpet2010]

Counts and Trumpett - Why is it losing your faith outright? You can have faith in other things, yourself, maybe in other Gods if you want. It was Nietzsche I think, who said that faith was not wanting to believe what is true. - I think a lot of "faith" is blind faith. There's plenty of God's and plenty believing in them before the Christian God. Btw Frost is one favorites, but he has other quotes too..

"Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee, and I'll forgive Thy great big joke on me." - Frost

Okay, I understand that it doesn't have to be losing faith outright but why did you say that the information provided in the airticle was a good thing?

Suprbeast hit the nail right on the head. Just because you believe in Christianity doesn't mean you have morals or the opposite. The 85% of the prison population who believe in Christianity would hold that to be true or the Atheist nations who have the lowest murder and teen pregnancy rates would hold that to be true also. 2/3's of the world isn't Christian, that doesn't mean they aren't smart or have no morals.

You are right. It doesn't mean that one lacks morals if he or she isn't Christian.

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." Thomas Jefferson

Is that the fault of the faith itself or is it the fault of those who misinterpret the faith? I go with number 2.

Crackersneckian - I think Christianity and religion get in the way of rationalization most of the time, I've said that a million times. Its not like I wasn't brought up in it or don't know what it is, it's that reason why I don't think any of it is true. I do love Jesus btw. I don't really believe in God, that doesn't mean I'm not smart. I'll give you some quotes of some pretty smart people who have some of the same views...


"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." - Thomas Jefferson

"Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil then necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity? - Arthur C. Clarke

"The Bible is not by book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian Dogma." - Abraham Lincoln

" I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul..No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of out tenacity of life - our desire to go on living..our dread of coming to an end." - Thomas Edison

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein

" I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own..a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe a human survives the death of his body, although the feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." Albert Einstein

Okay, a lot of those quotes are opinionated ones, so I can't touch those. But the quote by Clarke is one I want to touch. It's not the faith that should be faulted. It's the misinterpretation of the faith. Yes there are plenty of Christians that kill in the name of God. By doing that, the contradict Christianity. It isn't religion's fault that people kill in the name of it. I really do not buy into that quote.

I'd think you'd agree that those were some smart people. This isn't a Christian nation IMO and wasn't found solely on Christianity, Jefferson said it isn't and has never been a part of common law. The nation was found on common sense, don't murder, lie, steal etc. That comes from common sense, not Christianity. Christianity drives more away then people just "losing faith". Just how I feel about it.

Fair enough, but on your last sentence, you said that Christianity drives more people away. I think it's the misinterpretation of Christianity that does that when people kill or do something else contrary to Christianity in the name of Christianity.

[R13]

I disagree about the killing driving people away. If this were the case, Islam wouldn't be the fastest growing religion in the world. Religion has been corrupted by money for a long time and it'll only get worse, esp. with the amount Christianity takes in.

[1inStripes]

I disagree about the killing driving people away. If this were the case, Islam wouldn't be the fastest growing religion in the world. Religion has been corrupted by money for a long time and it'll only get worse, esp. with the amount Christianity takes in.

Its not so much the amount that Christianity takes in, as it is the amount catholicism takes in.

[Gotch]

Okay, just going to respond to a couple of historical falsehoods I've seen:

1. mention of the "Crusades" as a negative event in Christian history. Between about 630 and 1095 Muslim Imperialism, through armed force, had taken and controlled more than (60% going by memory, seems like about 75%) of all the Christian world. This before the first "Crusade". Any historian worth a crap these days will admit (or if they actually know history will gladly inform you) that the "Crusades" were a completely defensive action taken for the purpose of self-survival.

2. Christians have killed millions throughout history: Yes and no. This depends upon if you want to consider events such as World War 2 etc. In fact less people were killed in the entire 356 year history of the Spanish Inquisition than Islamic terrorist kill in any given year. The depth of anti-Christian propaganda is easily detected on this subject as absurd and impossible totals are tossed around without any actual research.

[steer]

I'm finally glad you chimed in, Gotch.
you're one of the few, who will actually have researched facts and data.

Burton13, did you watch Religulous and that get you on this anti-Christian kick?

I myself, am totally against "organized religion". I don't think you have to have somebody telling you, how to live, where to go, etc, etc...
I have a good relationship with God, and I have my spirituality and faith.
But the thing is, almost every religion is the same... just different words, different names for people, and the stories twisted around a little bit.

[Counts]

They're reasoning is that somewhere in the Bible it says that drugs are a sin and they're bad for you. I'm not saying it's like an abortion issue, but it certainly does stem from it(Didn't Jerry Falwells "Moral Majority" fuel it back in the 80's) and politicians "say" that's it. Now do you really think they believe its morally wrong or just because they can't make money on it? The "war on drugs" - which is here and started here in America - has became a joke. If they could tax it without backlash from the religious community, you better believe it'd all be legal..along with prostitution.

Then why is it not legal in China?

I am not saying that most Christian groups are not against legalization of drugs (not sure if we are talking Marijuana only or all drugs at this point) because they are however I suspect that if you were to go to your local Lines club (1st thing that popped into my mind LOL) and ask there official Poisson on drug legalization I bet that they will also be against it now does that mean that our drug laws are shaped by the Norton Lions Club?


Now this next part is my opinion ONLY but I THINK one of the biggest reasons mind altering drugs are illegal is the fact that it makes the population tougher to control and I have to believe that the Government wants its people to be productive in a way that they can guide and drug use makes that tougher

[Gotch]

Thanks STEER,

Sometimes I have a problem with people being completely blinded by their indoctrination into "politically correct" thinking.

Terrorism aside: how many know that there are more people living in slavery today than at any other time in human history?

How many know that a hugely disapportionate number of those "owning" slaves are Muslim?

[steer]

I love it, when you get on a discussion. You provide some great facts, and it's fun to learn some history lessons....when you get started up lol


up to Counts... I've heard this from a few who are in the drug world, etc... even people who do the drugs and deal them, say they don't want it legalized, bc then, it will drive their money making schemes down the whole.
Everybody always think it's just the "religious" people who are against legalizing drugs, but in reality it's the ones that do it, and then a host of other people.

[Shooter]

People who have no faith in God, or some God...don't want to have faith because they want to believe that their actions have no consequenses. Simple as that.

People like r13 lobby for every special interest group (ie gays, abortion, etc) because they want to draw attention to themselves. He just wants to bait people into an argument. If 99% of the world were atheist he'd be the biggest Christian of the 1%.

[Biggin]

People who have no faith in God, or some God...don't want to have faith because they want to believe that their actions have no consequenses. Simple as that.

People like r13 lobby for every special interest group (ie gays, abortion, etc) because they want to draw attention to themselves. He just wants to bait people into an argument. If 99% of the world were atheist he'd be the biggest Christian of the 1%.

That is simply not true, whatsoever. I have no faith, because I believe in science, and the human body, and the natural world. Thats horseshit what you said, its the typical christian anti-atheist propoganda.