Atheist/Agnostics

**CoeburnCane** · September 20th, 2009, 12:56 PM

BUT, as a Christian, I'm glad to see that even though some of you don't believe, you are willing to at least read and discuss. I believe both religion, christianity in my case, and science can co-exist.

No offense at all, but if that's the case--then why start the thread off the way you did? To me...it could have been a lot easier to start a thread, put the above sentence out there, and let the discussions begin on a civil level.

I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying that if that were known up front then some of the animosity we saw in this thread could have been avoided.

It's great to know now, and if everyone feels that way, then I believe this particular portion of the LPD Forum can be home to some very enlightening discussions as long as we all keep in mind that this is DISCUSSION, and not a "my belief is better than yours" type pissing-contest.

Can we all come together and discuss religious issues from different viewpoints in a respectful and magnanimous way? I think we can. Let's try to focus on that going forward, people. We'll all be better for it, I think.

**valour** · October 9th, 2009, 08:52 PM

{Quote}BUT, as a Christian, I'm glad to see that even though some of you don't believe, you are willing to at least read and discuss. I believe both religion, christianity in my case, and science can co-exist.

I agree that true Science and Religion can co-exist. The question we must ask ourselves is the theory of evolution true Science? The Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution both seek to replace Intellegent design. Religion is impossible to prove even though there is history and prophecies that would indicate that it is for real. It is by faith that believers come to their belief.

In the same manner Science has never observed one species evolving into another species, and yet they contend this happened. Evolution has never been proven and the Big Bang has never been proven, so in essence they rely on faith as well.

**R13** · October 9th, 2009, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by valour

{Quote}BUT, as a Christian, I'm glad to see that even though some of you don't believe, you are willing to at least read and discuss. I believe both religion, christianity in my case, and science can co-exist.

I agree that true Science and Religion can co-exist. The question we must ask ourselves is the theory of evolution true Science? The Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution both seek to replace Intellegent design. Religion is impossible to prove even though there is history and prophecies that would indicate that it is for real. It is by faith that believers come to their belief.

In the same manner Science has never observed one species evolving into another species, and yet they contend this happened. Evolution has never been proven and the Big Bang has never been proven, so in essence they rely on faith as well.

You have it all backwards, Evolution isn't trying to replace anything, it was there first...ID was just came up with a few decades ago. I don't what you're saying "true" science, what do you consider "true" science? It's science, that makes no sense. Science has witnessed evolution, not our evolution because that takes millions of years, that's just common sense. Evolution is proven, it takes little faith, religion is all faith with little to support it.

**valour** · October 9th, 2009, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by R13

You have it all backwards, Evolution isn't trying to replace anything, it was there first...ID was just came up with a few decades ago. I don't what you're saying "true" science, what do you consider "true" science? It's science, that makes no sense. Science has witnessed evolution, not our evolution because that takes millions of years, that's just common sense. Evolution is proven, it takes little faith, religion is all faith with little to support it.

I do believe that this is the atheists and naturalists view. What evidence can you present that would suggest that evolution has always been? Some say that evolution is a scientific fact, but is it? I understand how theories are gathered, but isn't it just an educated guess?

I honestly believe that Darwin and his followers are /was committed to anti-creationism. How do you explain that the universe has not always been, but it had to of had a creator. Einstein and Hubble came to this conclusion. Einstein did not believe in a personal God, but an impersonal God because he could not understand why suffering existed.

In essence Evolution is nothing more than an ideology, think about it humanism and naturalism eliminate God from the equation from the beginning, not even giving creation a chance. I believe that one day evolution will be uncovered as the biggest hoax ever. No-living chemicals cannot become alive on their own.

Has species to another species ever been observed?

**R13** · October 9th, 2009, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by valour

I do believe that this is the atheists and naturalists view. What evidence can you present that would suggest that evolution has always been? Some say that evolution is a scientific fact, but is it? I understand how theories are gathered, but isn't it just an educated guess?

Has species to another species ever been observed?

I never said it has always been, it has been around longer than the ID movement. It is scientific fact, it's been like that for awhile now too. Theories are tested, and tested and tested, it's far from a guess.

Not that I know of, nothing major, but that's not because it didn't happen...it's because modern science is fairly new, really new, compared to millions of years it takes for that to happen.

**valour** · October 9th, 2009, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by R13

I never said it has always been, it has been around longer than the ID movement. It is scientific fact, it's been like that for awhile now too. Theories are tested, and tested and tested, it's far from a guess.

Not that I know of, nothing major, but that's not because it didn't happen...it's because modern science is fairly new, really new, compared to millions of years it takes for that to happen.

If it has been around longer do you mind explaining the Big Bang theory and the odds of it happening?Is there a trial and error used in these theories even though most of what is claimed has never been observed? The key word is observed.

Design is apparent all around us, abiogenesis is impossible on many levels. Can you give me some concrete proof that life began on its on? Present something that would suggest this theory and its crediability.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics stand is opposition against it's claim.

Can you explain this to me? platypus 4

**Gotch** · October 9th, 2009, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by R13

I never said it has always been, it has been around longer than the ID movement. It is scientific fact, it's been like that for awhile now too. Theories are tested, and tested and tested, it's far from a guess.

Not that I know of, nothing major, but that's not because it didn't happen...it's because modern science is fairly new, really new, compared to millions of years it takes for that to happen.

You are confusing the current ID theory of say, Michael Behe, with the fact that anyone who believes there was a designer, like say Isaac Newton, believing in intelligent design.