Mosque gets Ok...

[Monkeyhead]

I think we should set up fight between R13 and Milk. I will ref and I will also find three judges for the bout.

[centennialdawg]

I'm not in disagreement that violence could happen. What I'm flabbergasted about is that you would imply that the blame would lie w/the mosque if something DID happen instead of whoever would perpetrate said terrorist attack on the mosque.

Instead of pussyfooting around and making excuses why said mosque can't be built in a land of (supposed) religious freedom, why not go after the people who are wanting to commit terrorist acts on any religion and stop them cold? That would cut the nuts off of any attacks to any religion on US soil, and hopefully start a worldwide trend.

And go fack yourself with the R13 comment. I'm discussing from a way different viewpoint than he is and I'm not out for myself to make me look good like he is. I'm the only one on this thread that's even considering how this affects our Constitution and the Separation of Church and State, and how pivotal this issue is concerning how our country is perceived vis-a-vis religious freedom moving forward.

I beg to differ with you, dude. Nobody believes in religious freedom any more than I do. Hell, I have Catholics, Jews, and yes Muslims in my family, so I do know a little something about this. The only thing that I have been trying to get across is the fact that I question their judgement on building there. Hell, they can built it right on top of ground zero for that matter. Would it be a smart thing to do? NO, it wouldn't. Do I think they are inviting trouble by building where they intend to? Yep, certainly do. Do I know anything about militias, and such, you had better belive it. I have studied them extensively. I don't belong to one and never will, I think they are un-american and tend to align themselves with nazism. I know how it affects our Constitution, especially with the separation of church and state. But, if you think that public opinion of this subject will not weigh in on the final disposition, then you are sadly mistaken.

And as far as me going to faack myself, no thank you. And DO I SEE YOU FINALLY ADMITTING THAT HE IS ONLY POSTING TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK GOOD? HOLD THE PRESSES, SWEET JESUS, you finally come out and admit his postings(on this particular thread) anyway are only to make him look good. Thank you for admitting that. As always, I respectfully disagree.:snickerpup:

[R13]

For mosques, ‘anywhere but there’ echoes far beyond Ground Zero - Kingsport Times-News Online

Nice article in the Ksport today about the "anywhere but here" argument, it's the same reaction everywhere, it's ridiculous.

[Milk3]

No, you just spoke like it was inevitably going to happen or there was a good chance of it happening, which there isn't. You never came out and said it is going to happen, I agree, you just insinuated it was.

Your fatass scares no one, but keep acting like a dumbass and puffing yourself up on a forum. Damn you take this too seriously. And I'm done arguing with you, just got a warning for taking part in this ignorant argument because you can't argue facts and turn it into something personal, which I shouldn't have took part in.



LMAO.

hahahahaha yopu're pathetic...... really.

If these people are good people and do this right then let them. However if things get shady there then it should be look into. I don't know if we have a govt. that has the balls balls to do that tho ( republicans and dems both)

[Milk3]

For mosques, ‘anywhere but there’ echoes far beyond Ground Zero - Kingsport Times-News Online

Nice article in the Ksport today about the "anywhere but here" argument, it's the same reaction everywhere, it's ridiculous.

That's an example of people narrow minded people can be. If they want to build it let them. That close to ground zero just isn't smart IMO

[CoeburnCane]

If these people are good people and do this right then let them. However if things get shady there then it should be look into.

Essentially the right thing to do--I agree 1000%.

The mosque should be allowed, but you've got to watch your back.

[CoeburnCane]

I beg to differ with you, dude. Nobody believes in religious freedom any more than I do. Hell, I have Catholics, Jews, and yes Muslims in my family, so I do know a little something about this. The only thing that I have been trying to get across is the fact that I question their judgement on building there. Hell, they can built it right on top of ground zero for that matter. Would it be a smart thing to do? NO, it wouldn't. Do I think they are inviting trouble by building where they intend to? Yep, certainly do. Do I know anything about militias, and such, you had better belive it. I have studied them extensively. I don't belong to one and never will, I think they are un-american and tend to align themselves with nazism. I know how it affects our Constitution, especially with the separation of church and state. But, if you think that public opinion of this subject will not weigh in on the final disposition, then you are sadly mistaken.

While that's all nice and good...you still didn't answer my question, though. Instead of trying to stop the mosque from being built for fear of the possibility of retaliation by a militia/terrorist group, why aren't we trying to go after the militia/terrorist groups and shutting them down to start with? Allow the mosque to be built, and stop trampling on religious freedom for fear of a terrorist attack. You deny religion, the terrorists/militias get their way anyways...it's a lose-lose situation if you ignore actively stomping out religious intolerance and militia/terrorist groups that hold those ideals.

All disallowing the mosque does is give those intolerant people what they want. Is that the type of country you want to be living in? It could be Jews or Christians next, if those militias decide that's what they want to go after.

And as far as me going to faack myself, no thank you. And DO I SEE YOU FINALLY ADMITTING THAT HE IS ONLY POSTING TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK GOOD? HOLD THE PRESSES, SWEET JESUS, you finally come out and admit his postings(on this particular thread) anyway are only to make him look good. Thank you for admitting that. As always, I respectfully disagree.

Enough of your patronizing tone. If you want to simply discuss the topic as we have above w/o the personal shots, then go for it. I have no problem doing that. Just don't lump my discussion and viewpoints in with someone else's either when they're from a completely different perspective.

If you want to continue acting like I'm covering R13's ass when I don't even like him, AND I sent him a PM yesterday warning him and telling him to back off or he was going to get banned and Politics/Religion board access taken away...then go ahead. You look like the idiot in that case, and the repercussions are yours to have.

[centennialdawg]

While that's all nice and good...you still didn't answer my question, though. Instead of trying to stop the mosque from being built for fear of the possibility of retaliation by a militia/terrorist group, why aren't we trying to go after the militia/terrorist groups and shutting them down to start with? Allow the mosque to be built, and stop trampling on religious freedom for fear of a terrorist attack. You deny religion, the terrorists/militias get their way anyways...it's a lose-lose situation if you ignore actively stomping out religious intolerance and militia/terrorist groups that hold those ideals.

All disallowing the mosque does is give those intolerant people what they want. Is that the type of country you want to be living in? It could be Jews or Christians next, if those militias decide that's what they want to go after.


Enough of your patronizing tone. If you want to simply discuss the topic as we have above w/o the personal shots, then go for it. I have no problem doing that. Just don't lump my discussion and viewpoints in with someone else's either when they're from a completely different perspective.

If you want to continue acting like I'm covering R13's ass when I don't even like him, AND I sent him a PM yesterday warning him and telling him to back off or he was going to get banned and Politics/Religion board access taken away...then go ahead. You look like the idiot in that case, and the repercussions are yours to have.

Isn't the government trying to put a lid on militia's? What about Ruby Ridge? Did the government not stop them? Did I ever say I agree with the militia's? Did I ever say that muslime don't have the right to build there...as a matter of fact I said it was their absolute right. I just questioned their judgement on the location. And for that you theaten to ban me and r13. i mean, Jesus Christ, dude. Can't anyone have a disagreement and state their opinion on here any more without you threatening to ban? I hold no ill feelings toward him, I do think he is too liberal thinking for his own good, but then again, I guess he feels I am a little too conservative.

Do I think you need to ease up some? Yep, sure do, but then again, so do a lot of other people. Just an opinion. Like I say, opinions are like a@@holes, everybody has one. The only thing I think r13 needs to do is to quit posting the whole article on stuff, it takes up room and it tends to get people dis-interested in what he is trying to say. Post the link instead. If people are interested, they will click the link.

Nope, I was not patronizing and if you thought that I was, then that was you who mis-understood my last post. I did say that I respectfully disagree, and that was not patronizing. I can not and will not agree with the principles that the extremist muslims have and there will be extremists there, there always is as with any other religion.

[R13]

Yeah, I don't get the ban threat either, I was wrong for taking part in the argument with Milk, but we both could have just quit with a small comment/warning on here or whatever. Ah, well. Been banned just once by steer, plan to keep it within the rules and not let that happen again. And for the record, I don't personally dislike anyone on here, none...it's a forum, everything should be left at the keyboard and I do that. I don't like some peoples views, they don't like mine, but I'd be happy to meet anyone on here(some less than others hah ) and have met several, talk to several outside of the forum(oldtimers too) and know mostly everyone's name and what they look like anyway, as they do me too. Said it a million times, I don't take anything on the internet that serious, esp. arguments on a forum...jeez.


And I post the whole article as a convenience, plus some titles to articles or to the thread don't tell the story(which may be very interesting) or can mislead a little to what the article is about. Always posted the article and always will, it irks me when others don't, just laziness

[centennialdawg]

Don't worry r13, I know we don't agree on a lot of things. That's what makes the world go round. That is one of the things that make this a great country: our ability to disagree and move on without fear of repercussions. You have your opinion, I have mine.

Now, back on topic. Like I have continually said in this thread, muslims have the absolute right to build there as long as all codes and regulations are followed. But, again, do I think that it is a wise decision on their part to build there? NO. Why? Because I think that as a national monument/memorial, no religion should be allowed to build there because of our constitution. Yep, there are religious centers there now, most all of them were there before 9/11 with the exception of the Jewish Faith Center, and it was in that process before 9/11. Should we run all the religious centers away from that area? No, and like I said, as long as the muslim center is built within the regulation and law, then let it.

AND, as with anything, there are always and will always be fanatics. And I would be willing to bet that there will be fanatics on both sides. Most of you all don't remember the civil rights marches in the south years ago, there were fanatics on both sides. There was the KKK, The Black Panthers, Malcolm X, just to name a few. It was a very turbulant time in history as this is too. Something could happen now, up there, much like what happened then.

If, for any reason, someone actually thinks for a minute that I hope and believe that something bad will happen because of building the mosque, then let them believe it. I don't really care. To paraphrase you on several different posts, Let them think what they want, they will anyway and I really don't care.

Religion is a "hot button" topic anywhere it is brought up, just like politics. And threats don't scare me, they just make me seek a higher authority, as I have.