Eto and Echo Gone!

[InfiniteStarfox]

Ah, well Bloodsong, I see you take more into the more Druidic and Natural-based approach to the idea of the soul. However, a soul simply cannot exist within objects without life being present. As I've said, the opposite of perfection is nothingness (to which has no conscious thought, purpose, or form as it there is nothing in nothing) and the goal is to strive to achieve that perfection, ultimately.

Unfortunately, only living things may grow and thereby grow into fulfilling its greater purpose. An inanimate object can't decide what it can become or what purpose it has as it lacks the efficient clause (like a carpenter who takes materials and forms them into a house, as the house does not build itself) needed to bind the materials and form of living things. A living organism has all the clauses as it grows on its own, into its own form, with what it is composed of to fulfill its ultimate and final purpose. Since the purpose of all things are meant to be good and follow an order of priorities (like, to have the number 3 you have to have first the number 1, but you can have 1 without 3), only living, conscious things can chose to forward themselves toward fulfilling that purpose or attempt to go against it, by manipulating all other causes. This is all made possible by what the soul does.

And the only souls which are eternal are those that can exist through thought, being a Human soul. Only a human soul is capable of thought, and thoughts are not confined to a single person's physical mind. Thoughts are graps at what isn't there, placing an image or idea, like a car, into your mind without actually putting a physical car in your head. It's this nature that makes the soul infinite, and allows humanity to continue on while other souls (bound to the physical world) die with their bodies.

And I'm reluctant to talk to Lilla because I get terribly nervous around girls with horns. That, and I don't want to be a bother.

...Ah, I guess I kinda wrote too much...again...
Hey, and if anyone has to write a paper on something good, you should be taking notes! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[InfiniteStarfox]

Whoops! Ok, I'm being redundant, but I meant to say "causes" when I said "clauses." I'm having Mory-withdrawls, and it shows.

Sorry for rambling, but I was born a ramblin' man...

[bloodsong]

Yes, I do, Starfox. I'm a Witch. *grin*

I can see your point, however, allow me to amend my previous comments on non-living things here.

Earth has a magnetic field. Everyone knows this. What may be new is that all things, animal, mineral or vegetable, respond to that magentic field. Gems, semiprecious stones and minerals all have their own vibration. The vibration depends on the type. To those sensitive to the vibrations, like myself, it feels like connecting to the Earth, which could be seen as a living macro-organism. So, in a roundabout way, stones can have the essence of the divine.

Running water has both potential and kinetic energy. Dip your hand in a stream and you feel it. That energy, however mundane, could also be interpreted as divine, for without water we cannot survive. Water is a fundamental building block, so it also serves as a link to the Earth. Another roundabout way.

These links do not evolve, obviously. All they can do is return to the Source, which is always working to maintain perfect balance. I would say balance is the ultimate goal. Perfection is not what I aspire to, nor do I feel that is where we're heading. Balance is the goal of the Divine. Complete balance between everything. If something tips in one direction or another, forces are moved to right the scale. Everything seeks balance, consciously, unconsciously or without consciousness.

[echostar]

My goodness but you all have been busy in our absesence. With deep meaningful discussion no less!

I am terribly sorry about the Lag in Mory for the past month. Eto was unfortunate enough to sign up for two Literature classes and so has been reading two books basically every week. (not usually a problem for her, the bookworm, however combine that with a job and such and one finds the problem.) And I have been both terribly ill (not all that suprising) and working quite a bit doing comissions and retail.

I can joyfully report however that after several hours of work the next page has been penciled and shaded and handed over to Eto to soon be texted and posted. So hopefully within the next few days there shall be a new page to oggle at or whatever you so choose. Admittedly I am somewhat proud of this page.. and that is a big deal for me.

So with this report done, I shall go Relax a little and play some FFIX. I bid you all a fond goodnight and wish ye the best till we next meet or some such high sounding nonsense. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[InfiniteStarfox]

Heh, and I'm a Roman Catholic, so I guess it shows what angles we're coming from! Your analysis of the Earth is in a sense true, as it is what was given to us to sustain us. I believe the Earth and all creation to be of Divine origin and under Divine guidance, so I think we're close on that respect. All things were created in love, and because of this it should be respected.

However, the physical aspects (i.e., the magnetic and gravitational field of matter) fall in regard to science, as they are properties of matter - to which I could write an entire mathematical, biological, and chemical analysis (I payed lots of attention in school, as you can tell).

For example, all matter can be converted into waves of energy if passed through a small enough space, as proved when scientists sent an electron through a nickle atom and effectively made pure energy (and 'destroyed' the electron). Energy from the sun is converted by plants, which is converted by animals who eat it - and according to the Second law of thermodynamics, every time there is a transfer or change in energy, there is a loss of energy through heat (so you can't create or break even with energy in something). These properties are not unique, as it is found in all matter.
Living matter takes part in this physical world, but, because of the soul, needs more than just water and food to exist - it needs purpose, which is brought about by its final cause and consequently IS its final cause. The whole "Cause" discussion would place life above the inanimate world, as it incorporates much more than just physical causes to sustain it.

This system of priority and posterity is held in place by an order, and all things in the world and beyond must have that, or some form of, order (which in itself is good) to exist. Balance does not need to incorporate evil or bad acts, as it goes against love and creation. Evil is not a state of being, but a discription of an action that disrupts order (which brings something further away from the ultimate direction of the order, perfection/Source).

All that is, was made in love, and love is good (at least true Love). All being and becoming is good, as it exists. If you took a scale and placed everything (that exists) on one side, what could you put on the other to balance it? There'd be nothing, which can hardly be considered 'something'. It's this perfect love vs nothing that cannot be balanced, as the path creation has either heads toward all-existing or to total unmaking. All being has love, and nothing is without love.

The more existence undos that order and destroys, the more evil it is (or rather, the more evil it does), and the closer it, or what order it disrupts, is to being nothing - but if it is still here and is part of creation, it is still loved and uses a means of that love to do evil (which is not the purpose of love).

Well, the end result is that all order and all love (from which everything is made) is perfection, which is the state of omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience - the closer something is to that Source/Love, the more perfect and more able to endure the full aspect of creation it is; Evil, or unmaking of order/creation, only undos and places something further from that Source. As source is all being, and pure evil is total undoing of being, there can be no balance. Without some "Unmaking Being" to counter the "Creator Being," the scales are obsolete: it gives way to the path toward or away from Perfection, and anything in-between hasn't reached either end of the road yet.

And all RIGHT, I'm looking forward to new signs of life in regards to Mory! As always, I hope you feel better, and goodluck to Eto with all her work - we have total faith she can pull it all off!

Anyways, sorry if whatever I say isn't interesting and is taking up space, I just enjoy arguments as they help advance a person's understanding when they look at the different angles. The more a person understands, the more able they are to chose the right path, which ties into my whole philosophy! And if anyone is wondering, no, I don't have my textbooks right next to me, since it's better to speak from the heart with what you really know (but don't worry, I wouldn't use info I have doubts about).

[bloodsong]

*giggles merrily* I was born and raised Roman Catholic.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I don't feel that life moves towards perfection to escape the death that is entropy. The Source is Love, but it is also Everything. Entropy and energy, light and dark, death and life, female and male. It is within the Source that balance is maintained and since all things, animate and inanimate, have a link to that Source, the balancing act is reflected in the natural world. There is no "good" or "evil", everything is at some point on the scale. We're not talking about a scale you see in oldtime pharmacy shops or a chemistry lab. It's more like...a strand of DNA on its side and linked at one point. That point is the Source and everything moves to it in one direction or another, depending on the perspective. Thus, everything, INCLUDING nothingness, is contained and maintained. How you perceive this dance, for lack of a better word, depends entirely on your own notions of how the Universe works. Hence, I see something cyclic, while you see something more linear.

[InfiniteStarfox]

Ah, I had a lengthier response but I guess I'll hold my artillery, but yeah [img]biggrin.gif[/img] And your image of all strands leading to a single point is correct. However, it's only one direction from different points, but still the same direction and same end; and the more you go along toward that point the closer you are to what Source is, which we've covered. They aren't connected, lest we are all omnipotent, omnipresence, and omniscience (I use those words a lot...) already, which can't be as there is so much destruction and evil in the world (which can hardly be good). It's part of my "All Religion is Right so long as..." theory of God only wanting you to do His will, which is to love Him by serving and helping others selflessly for their betterment as well as your own, and everyone else does the same (creating paradise). So long as you do the right thing, which is ultimately constructive, you're doing good.

Also, there is good and evil just as there is being and total emptiness, which are the two logical ends. And you can't have NOTHING, because there is no physical or spiritual thing that exists, that is also nothing.

So my belief stands that, dark is only absence of light, evil is the absense of good, and the meaning of life is serving and trying to attain True Love, for it is Creation itself, and isn't destructive but immortal and eternal.

But yeah, let's just agree to disagree. I argue virtually everyday with roving gangs of real anti-Catholic/religion people and various different poltical parties at school - even when it's 10 to 1! It's fun and didactic, but also tough and tiring since it takes effort and a heap of vocabulary with a, shall we say, plethora ("Jeffe, what is a plethora?") of other things. But hey, when you feel it's right with real conviction, it's certainly worth fighting for. Besides, I get the feeling that we should have started a new topic for all this...

[eto]

*looks up from her readings and raises a brow* Wow, you certainly all were busy... Ahem, but yes, Echo is right... Despite my bookwormisness, two 200-300 page novels a week is rather tiring, not to mention the constant essays and evaluations. I AM writing scripts though, and Echo IS drawing them, so we should begin to update Mory sparratically until we see this thing out.

And on a side note, thank you both, Starfox and Bloodsong, for playing nice-nice while discussing your debate. It's interesting to see such discussions, and I'm glad to see you could both handle it maturely.

[Ellian]

There will be much rejocying on my side indeed, StarFox, for various reasons. First of all, of course, for Mory being back. Thanks to Echo and Eto, for despite having a life still providing us with this great webcomic. Second, of course, for seeing the religious debate, if you want to call it that way, handled sensibly, as Eto already pointed out. So thanks as well to Bloodsong and StarFox for practising religious tolerance. Just incidentially I found the following "Thought of the Week" at masterzdm.com: "There are only two kinds of religion: The ones that think they're right and everyone else is wrong...and the others that know better." And third, completely unrelated, it?s my birthday today. [img]smile.gif[/img] Peace and happiness to all of you out there!

[InfiniteStarfox]

AH! *Quickly tosses the bazooka aside* Oh, of course, I wouldn't dare think of the idea of NOT playing nice-nice! Anyways, it's great to have a Mory update. There will be much rejoicing tonight, so let the kool-aid flow like water!