Doll price going up

[annkirstin]

Melissa,
My Samantha has very faint lip color, but I don't remember whether she had darker lip color before. So it could've faded but I just don't know.

I didn't read that article you posted, but was it just those blinds, or all vinyl things that contain lead? I know that PVC does, and that is what is used in Christmas light strings, so they have to have warnings on them now (just in the state of CA, but the manufacturers put them on all boxes so as not to have to special print different boxes). But I don't think that all kinds of vinyl are the same as PVC, are they?

[MareGathersWords]

Yeah, it is scary to think of our dolls not lasting, but hearing that they will age has is an excellent response to my post about sometimes not handling my dolls for fear of getting them dirty or out of pristine condition. Don't think I'll be having that problem anymore. So thank you, Melissa. [img]wink.gif[/img]

To Popsie.. I always used to hate Barbies too, but one day at Meijers, while checking our their current My Little Pony (something else I collect) stock, I started looking at the Barbies. My Scene Barbie makes me want to barf. And then my eye catches a doll on the bottom shelf...along with two others in the Princess DOTW collection. She's wearing a gorgeous renassance gown, her hair is quite dark and her mouth is closed in an refined smile versus the open mouthed ditz. After I got online and started looking up the line, I fell in love. I too was disappointed that the GOML line didn't do more countries...and DOTW has covered quite a few of them.

As for the quality of the clothing, neither my Barbies or GOMLs are going to be undressed. They look so beautiful the way they do now and they don't have other outfits made for them...so they're really not intended, in my opinon, for redress. But I can let you know a little more when she gets out of the box. I'm waiting on some shelves for my dollies. [img]smile.gif[/img]

And I do want to say that I love the GOML line for all it's detail and beauty of costumes. The faces are nice, they just don't strike me as beautiful as the Collector Barbies. But then again, the GOMLs are twelve-ish and Barbie is all grown up, so there's going to be a difference. But I am happy that I got the GOMLs and I still hope someday I either have the finances to get Kathleen or the good luck to find her for a price I can afford. [img]wink.gif[/img]

[acorniv]

Scroll to teh bottom of my post, ladies, if you can't take any more downers, it will all end well. But here's more on aging:

Vinyl's keep improving, that's for sure. Whether this makes them more stable, or more biodegradable could be a question though. If you think about it we do want most vinyl things to biodegrade. It might be in Mattel's best interests for all of their products to biodegrade so each generation will have to buy more, and so people will stop saying they clutter up the world.

I am pretty fascinated by silicon and how heat resistant it is - it seems much more stable than vinyl, although it does harden over time. It does not discolor either. I wonder if it is used in dolls to make them more translucent? I am hoping this will prove to be a viable product for dolls in teh future.

Meg, about the comment you made about china dolls 100 years later vs vinyl - the problem is you've compared stone and glass based china and glaze on the one hand and oil based vinyl on the other. When you look at the doll Pleasant refered to, what has suffered is her silk ribbons, not her china face. What we are discussing in AG dolls is their actual body material, not their trimmings. Even if you compared the wigs, you can keep human hair looking new indefinately under the right conditions. Although sometimes insects will eat hair, it is usually the glues and other additives that they are going for. AG wigs don't have a great track record, unless you luck out by living in their favorite regin ( certainly not the hot and sticy South!)

A china doll with a human hair wig that has been properly prepared for storage could survive for 1000 years, needing only the leather or cloth body replaced in order to be enjoyed once again. I've seen human hair this old, so I know this can happen. They don't lose their color except for painted surfaces that were not fired either.

With vinyl, there are simply no gaurantees.

I think Ann mentioned wedding dresses wrapped in acid free paper - untill the last ten years, that was rarely done, so you do have the damage caused by the packaging. But there are many other factors to consider - is it natural fiber or synthetic? how was the garment cleaned -(or was it) before storage?

Synthetics yellow and can get stiff. Dresses from the 1940's and later tend to not fare all that well because of this. It might also be due to dry cleaning chemicals used. However, I have lots of Victorian whites that still look like new. Ironically, every day clothes from the 1940's fare better than ones specially prepared for storage.

Silks can get brittle and desintegrate if stored in hot places ( attics) and they also need air and moisture. They are an animal by product and respond to time like other proteins. OTOH, silk is stronger than iron, and nowhere near as delicate as people tend to think. Synthetic dyes are a real problem with silks as are special treatments, like zinc added to give it weight.

Rayon comes from wood pulp (or at least it used to) and holds up really well, unless it is treated to give it a sheen or somesuch. .

Cottons hold up exremely well if they don't get damp and moldy. What destroys them is synthetic dyes and iron deposits from water, which can make rust spots that eventually make holes. Plisse's and other chemically altered cottons suffer like any other syntheticly processed fabric.

Linen can last forever. If you want to see some that is over 1000 years old, go find a mummy.

About cleaning things before storage. Two of the most caustic things you can get on your clothes are perspiration and the oil from your hands. The oil from your hands can yellow things in very little time, and can desinegrate them too. You probably won't be surprised to hear that synthetic things we use on or in our bodies don't improve the situation.

The oil in our hands is not all that different from the oil in vinyl.

I don't know how many of you have been to antique doll shows, but my love of them has influenced how willing I am to invest in one item over another. This is where you can see exactly how time has treated bisque, composition, vinyl, hard plastic, wood, and cloth dolls. There is a pretty clean divide between synthetics and natural products - dolls made before the age of synthetics become patina'd perhaps, but stop at that, and last indefinately from then on, if cared for. Synthetic products if early, are sold by dealers who also offer products ( more synthetic chemicals) to restore them with. The more you combine the natural and synthetic world the worse it seems to be for the poor doll. compositions dolls are made of wood and a chemical that feeds on wood. Brillant.

Big bummer for your favorite girls? It's not the end of the world. Look what has happened to china dolls. We've been able to take extremely good molds off of rare dolls. Truth be told, with improved brushes and true artists (instead of whoever lives within walking distance of the factory and needs a job) painting them now, china dolls are better than they were the first time around. If AG dolls are meant to last for generations, innovations will be made so that can happen.

[acorniv]

Mare, my dd really liked My Little Pony when she was preschool age. My son loved, and for some reason, still loves, the goofy looking bird ones. We have a large box of them. We have the little girl doll and the great big pony, and some clothes, plus sone that light up, etc. The ballet studio was a big hit - I don't think we had all the pieces to it though.

Where does one go to find out what I've got ( I have no idea of the names or anything) and the values?

You can pm me about this - I should have done that to you - sorry folks!

We know a little boy who is secretly a huge fan of them. I think boys like them becasue they have hair you can brush but they ae not dolls [img]wink.gif[/img]

[moderator]

Speaking of shelf dolls, 15 years ago I felt AGs were so expensive that I didn't want anyone to play with them! There were two exceptions to the rule: a friend who was a teen and wanted Kirsten; and a girl I babysat, who adesperately wanted Samantha. I appointed two dolls play dolls: Kirsten and Molly. Any other dolls were only for shelf display (much to the chagrin of the gal I babysat--she wanted that tempting Sam on the shelf!). To my family, that type of money was way too much for a doll, and after a girl saves for a year, she doesn't necessarily want to play with the doll, just admire it!

It's interesting some of you feel the dolls are "collectibles" (I thought of them in this way when I actively collected the dolls). However, in my experience, they don't hold up very well; that's probably why AG can offer a doll hospital! [img]wink.gif[/img]

I've had my AG dolls for up to 16 years. Clothes get worn, yellowed (even if nothing has been spilled on them), and a little stale-smelling after a dozen or so years. The dolls themselves lose their coloring, the joints get loose, and the eyes potentially turn silver. The hair doesn't stay quite as nice and silky, at least after a dozen or so years. All of these happened to dolls of mine that were not played with much.

I still treasure my AG dolls, but I don't think they are in suitable condition to pass along to a granddaughter, much less a daughter. They sort of self-disintigrate in time, even if well-taken care of. This is not to say that I didn't dream of passing them on to future generations when I collected them (I did; that was one reason I took such good care of the books, clothes, dolls, and accessories). However, everything does get worn naturally, through the passage of time. Besides, now my Molly is too special to me to pass on--I'm worried someone would break her. [img]eek.gif[/img] I don't want to make it sound like they get in terrible condition (they don't), but they do age, and because they are meant to be play dolls, I wouldn't really call them collectibles, even though many of us (myself included) do consider our dolls to be collectibles.

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ April 21, 2005 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>

[lieu2]

Melissa, that is interesting. Because we are pretty new to this doll thing. I actually like that it does disintergrate because then you will be more willing to let your child play with them. Which is their original intent. I do keep Kaya and Asian AGoT in a curio cabinet. I would be interested to see how well they hold up. The rest are play dolls and I am sure by the time Kaitlin is a teenager, they will all look well loved.

[moderator]

I wasn't saying they contain lead. (I don't want to start a rumor or scare.) I pointed to the article because it told about how vinyl breaks down. I also found an article on vinyl siding that said it is not made to last longer than 50 years, but I didn't post that one because it's something that would be more exposed to the elements, being used outdoors. The window shades were the only thing I knew of that were relevant to indoor vinyl use/vinyl breaking down. But it could be like comparing apples and oranges since these vinyls are probably made with different components.

Popsie, I was going to mention china/glass too! Glass is long-lasting; we have a stereoscope from probably the 1800s that is still completely clear, as well as some other glass antiques; they look exactly the same as they would have when people first used them. But good thing AGs aren't made of china, so I guess there's an up side to everything! [img]wink.gif[/img]

Here's a comparison for breaking down in a landfill, from http://www.bcua.org/SolidWaste_Recycling.htm

Glass = 1 million years
Plastic = 100 to 400 years

I'm not sure how this compares to everyday life, since landfills can sometimes cause things to break down slower (if they are covered/smothered). But it at least helps to show the difference a bit.

My point is for AG fans not to treat their dolls as collectibles like I did, because they are going to "age" whether you play with them or not. I think it's a good argument to keep playing with the dolls and get the use out of them that AG intended--and in many ways that can be taken as good news instead of bad! [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ April 22, 2005 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>

[JennAG]

Hello everyone. I've been a lurker for awhile, and after reading this interesting thread, I just wanted to add my comments.

Like many of you, I hope DD's AG dolls hold up well enough for her to share them with her daughter. But I definitely want her to play with the dolls & connect with them. I think that's what will make them special enough to want to pass down.

My mom was a packrat & has almost every doll I ever owned. There's a Baby Tender Love, Timey Tell, Georgie & Georgette twins, Chatty Kathy, Baby Krissy, etc. We've always left them at grandma's to be played with there. My daughter has noticed that some of them are not in perfect shape, but she likes that because grandma explained that's because mom loved them so much.

I also have about 20 Madame Alexander dolls that I collected over the years. All are in pristine condition and stored in their boxes. And guess what? When I showed them to DD, she commented that they were pretty, but has never really shown any more interest in them. My initial hope of her wanting to expand "our" MA collection just isn't happening!

Well, thanks for listening. I'm hoping to post a little more often after lots of lurking. Everyone seems so nice here.

JennAG

[ponydreamer]

Popsie...wrapping wedding dresses in Acid free tissue has been popular in this area of the country for at least 25 years, so hopefully we are seeing younger generations who can enjoy mom's wedding dress. My daughter has already tried mine on several times, and it is 20 years old, with no signs of aging.

My DD's oldest AG is 12-yrs. old. Sometimes I do notice some oil on her vinyl. I always wash it off, it drives me nuts. Her Felicity can get that way, too, so I wipe her down whenever I notice it. Her other dolls all came in close succession, and they are all between 10 and 12 years old, except for Josefina. Her Kirsten and Molly look like they did the day she pulled them out of the box. And they were played with by many a little girl.

I am a lover of history and antiques, and collect both. However, my favorite antiques are family heirlooms. Most of them show signs of their age, which makes them more special to me. However, I Know that with time, all things fade away. I never knew any of my grandparents. My last living GP died when I was one. So my kids never knew them, either. However, I have pictures of them scattered throughout my home. To me, picutres are the best link to the past. One of my favorite pictures is of my mom, dad, and 5 of my mothers sisters, and my Grandma. They are all standing outside, next to my dad's car. It is right after WW2. My dad looks like Humphrey Bogart. Next to that photo is a picture of my mother and her mother. My mom was a pre- teen, and she and my grandma are dressed for church. My grandma has on the most adorable hat with a pom pom on top. It was the early 40's, late 30's. I also have my mother's HS graduation picture. She has a curly hair style, with a huge silk rose tucked behind her ear. Next to that, is my dad in his navy uniform. He was 17, and had just enlisted for WW2.

I know I went off track, but I did that on purpose. I love my dolls, and I dearly love my daughter's dolls, but like it or not...they will all be in the past some day. What matters more, to me, is the little girl my DD used to be...and that she will pass on her dolls, her stories of us, and her treasures, so that someone will have a hint of what we all were like.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[moderator]

JennAG, welcome to the board! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Popsie, I'm afraid it was me who made the mistake about the acid-free paper. [img]redface.gif[/img] My mom said her mom carefully wrapped her wedding dress in paper, but since she was married many years ago, it's doubtful people even knew about acid-free paper back then. The paper was still pristine and nice looking when she took the dress out a few years back, but the dress wasn't in as good shape as the paper. [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ April 22, 2005 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>