War has started...

[AsIs]

And here I thought you were hoisting him by the captain of the Enterprise! [img]wink.gif[/img]

[sarabiga]

Of course everybody here wants freedom.

But if this is the first stage of a third world war (please read carefully the "enduring freedom", document, I find it much more scary than Saddam) there won't be any freedom for anyone.

Freedom is not enough. Human rights are the central point.

And talking about kurds, how many of you know of the Turkish bombing on the villages in Iraqi Kurdistan during the past 10 years, thanks of the NATO rights on no-fly zones?
Don't you see you know nothing? Sometimes you seem brainwashed and you boast around like you knew everything...

Let's talk about it in five, or ten years: history will decide for us pretty soon.

[erisesoteric]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by sarabiga:
please read carefully the "enduring freedom", document</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

You wouldn't happen to have a link to this particular document would you?

[Lulu]

My biggest problem with Bush right now-

(other than the fact that, despite Vox's assertions, he's fully f*&king our economy!)

is that he's flagrantly breaking international law. He's so clearly not interested in supporting UN resolutions- he's using them as an excuse. If he cared at all what the UN thought, he'd probably listen to the fact that they flat out told him, for whatever reasons, not to start a war.

As far as justification is concerned- we have demonstrated no basis for attacking this country. Yeah, we don't like the guy in charge- but that still doesn't give us the right to start a war. we haven't presented any concrete evidence that Iraq even has 'weapons fo mass destruction.' Sure, he might and even probably does, but our guesses, opinions or hearsay are not adequate justifications for war.

It's the same reason you don't send a guy to death row just because you think he probably commmited the crime. If you can't prove it, and the court won't rule him guilty, then you just don't have the right to walk up afterward and put a gun to his head. Even if you're pretty darn sure that he's a really bad man.

Why? Because, if you do- that makes you just as bad.

And that is a perfectly appropriate analogy.

[AsIs]

Does anyone here listen to NPR? I listen to the Morning Show almost everyday. All Things Considered, frequently. Fresh Air whenever it seems there might be a person who interests me and I have the time.

You can listen to them free online at www.npr.org

The reason I bring this up is I have found that they have had more comprehensive coverage of many events. They don't just show you the right or the left. They often show people behind the scenes. The people you won't see on the nightly news, because they arn't flashy, they don't fit a sound bite and many times they are heart-breaking or flat out terrifing.

I have no ethical problems with removing Saddam from the face of this earth. I do however have problems of taking the lives of the many innocents he will use as shields because he is a self preserving ego-maniac.

Saddam has in the past used nerve agents against people in his own country. Gotta make sure they work after all. And hey, I don't like the people in this village anyway!

We knew about this and we did nothing...For whatever reason, we did nothing.

My problem with the war is this. We arn't going in to put up a provisional govenment like in Afganistan. We arn't going in with the permission of the neighbors like Afganistan. We are going in to stay, much like some other wars that did not end too well for us.

Once we conquer...er, free Iraq, then we will be protecting two borders, Iran and Turkey. Turkey wants to be rid of the kurds, so we have to send the Kurds and Turkey to separate corners of the room so they don't disrupt things by not playing nice.

Iran, Iran is far more tricky. Iran is basically keeping quiet right now, because they hate, fear and don't trust Saddam, so our interests are theirs. But *after* Iraq is under control, our attention will wander... Iran is in the process of developing nuclear technology as fast as it can. It sees this as a survival measure in the Mid-East. Without our involvement, they might have been right. But after we finish the war with Iraq and the dust has settled. Look forward to the war with Iran. And this war will be much more problematic. The only thing we have in our favor with Iraq, is nobody, I repeat nobody likes Saddam. Hell, I don't even remember who is in charge of Iran these days. How much he is the devil sentiment are we going to be able to drum up against someone who most Americans don't even recognize. It takes time to create someone you can describe as the *great evil, bad man*.

We don't have the man-power or the means to take over the entire Middle East, what I find oh so problematic about this action is that is what we have started. Put all the window dressing on it you want. But the goal of this mission is to control the Middle East. We weren't able to do it last century and there is no way in hell we will be able to do it now. Well, short of leveling the whole place and being done with it. But then what would *that* make us...

[5Cats]

God Speed Your Safe Return! to the men and women in the coalition force!

It's kind of hard for soldiers to not take it personally when they're accused of being baby killers, mass murderers, puppets of the oil companies & etc, as the protestors are fond of calling them.

Also, if you're insulting the leader, you're insulting all who follow him or her. I can't really see a way around that.

I CAN see how one can oppose this war without supporting Iraq. Still I often see just that in the words and actions of the protestors, supporting the Hussain dictatorship.