Am I the only one...

[GeminiCancer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>on a side note, to quote terry "...you have no idea how important francine's daughter is to our story." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That kind of teaser kills me. I'm really dying to know how we get from here to Francine 10 years from now and her kid, and what happens next with that.

I wonder how far off that revelation is?

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"They mostly come out at night. Mostly." --Newt, Aliens

"I can crack all your ribs, but I can't break your heart." --Jill Sobule

"Take it easy, but take it." --Woody Guthrie

[ShadeFell]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GeminiCancer:
*cough*rampantbitcheryahoy*cough*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the last time we see david, he calls SOMEBODY a bitch. it's VERY unclear who he calls that. is it mary beth? is it katina?

you're REALL sensitive about this.

it IS just a book, you know.

[Mibbitmaker]

I don't think anyone's calling her a bitch(and I scolded David on the review page if it was directed at Kat) here because she didn't "put out" after they had sex. That would be sexist. My problem with her is that she says/thinks hateful things about David that she was supposed to be past, and she isn't being straight(not that way!) with him about there being NO romantic feelings left. She's done it before, but now she won't, which is unfair to David. Fair would be to tell him, in NO uncertain terms, that she values friendship, but that's IT. Period. End of story(so to speak). Then if he pushes on strong, the onus(sp?) is on him, that he'd be a jerk.

Other than that,Gem, I agree with your post(the next-to-last one before this).

[GeminiCancer]

Again, I don't see that she's being hateful to David. Just being herself (and if you always thought Katchoo was a bitch, then cool; but I do wonder why you're reading). However, if I had to beg for a hug, I wouldn't be terribly confused about how another person felt about me. It's been said before: David would act like this no matter what. He'd act like like this if she straight out told him to stop it. He'd act like this if she hit him. She knows that, and she may not be ready for another fight with him.

And yeah, actually, on another thread Katchoo was accused of teasing David by wearing a bikini top and licking batter from her fingers. This insinuates that by dressing for the beach and cooking, Katchoo is showing off her body to David and not giving him something that he should expect to get, and thereby being a bad person. That's pretty sexist.
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"They mostly come out at night. Mostly." --Newt, Aliens

"I can crack all your ribs, but I can't break your heart." --Jill Sobule

"Take it easy, but take it." --Woody Guthrie

[This message has been edited by GeminiCancer (edited August 01, 2001).]

[Jadian]

I actually don't think anyone is being sexist or in danger of being sexist. If Katchoo is being a bitch that doesn't equate to her "acting just like a woman" or "naturally bitchy as all women are" etc. No one has said or implied either of those statements. There's no sexism happening here.

Unless I totally missed a post in this thread......

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"Be excellent to each other." -Bill & Ted
"Do we need to have the "fantasy/reality" discussion again?" - eris
Feminist Rants

"Heaven holds a sense of wonder and I wanted to believe that I'd be called up when the rage in me subsides." - Sarah McLachlan w/ Delerium

[Darth Fett]

No Jadian, I think you are correct, there is no sexism to this issue.

These sort of threads kinda remind me of the first itme I saw the movie Saint Elmo's Fire(y'know, awful 'Brat Pack' movie from the 80's)

Well, the first time I saw it was about 6 years ago, I'm an adult, happily married, and it was incredibly painful to watch a movie like that and see these characters just blunder right into situation that you (now) know way better to avoid.

Kinda like SiP. I have been David, Kat and Francine to varying degrees in my lifetime, and have now happily (mostly) expunged the negative qualities I would have shared with any of them. We are all identifying in our own ways and getting worked up; but this is totally understandable.

Kinda cool we are all getting so emotional about somehting we value.

Darth

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'Faith. What a dirty monosyllable. Jill, why didn't you mention that one when you were teaching me the short words that musn't be used in polite company?'
-Valentine Michael Smith, aka the Man from Mars- Stranger in a Strange Land

[Prodigal]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GeminiCancer:
If someone treated you like that, even if they had slept with you previously, would you have any doubts about how they truly felt now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I had grown up in a family as deeply screwed-up as David's, and that person had told me more than once that she loved me?

Very possibly yes.

[Prodigal]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GeminiCancer:
And why don?t they talk to each other about it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David has tried, but Katchoo shut him out.

"It's something women only talk about with women and their gay friends" was the way she put it, IIRC.

(Edited because I messed up a tag in the quote)

[This message has been edited by Prodigal (edited August 01, 2001).]

[Mibbitmaker]

Well, if someone said her showing off her body and denying David meant she owed him(and the BIG "if" is, did the poster MEAN it that way?), then, yes, that is quite sexist.

Katchoo has a certain meanness in her personality - and sexism, too - but that's not the full measure of her personality. She also has vulnerability and reasons(not excuses) for her bad behavior which are understandable. I keep reading because Terry writes 'em complicated...real.

And I keep reading Cerebus in spite of Dave Sim being a mysogynist jerk. He's still a (usually) brilliant comic book creator.

[This message has been edited by Mibbitmaker (edited August 01, 2001).]

[Jadian]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mibbitmaker:
Well, if someone said her showing off her body and denying David meant she owed him(and the BIG "if" is, did the poster MEAN it that way?), then, yes, that is quite sexist.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not unless they wouldn't expect the same of David had the roles been reversed.

Expecting some one to put out just because you've seen them naked isn't sexist. It's being a big unreasonable delusional jerk, but it has nothing to do with think men and women are not equal. At least that's my take on sexism. I think that term is thrown around an awful lot, is all, which is why I'm drawing attention to it.

Katchoo has certain sexist assumptions entwined in her personality, yes, especially when you go back and read her confrontation with Brad. Actually I'm having that same issue with some one on another board - when they get mad at their husband they "hate all goddamn men". That is definately sexism. And Katchoo, with her ultra-ready jerk sensor and misguided aim can be very, very sexist.

I don't think David has ever been guilty of that. But I'll have to flip back through old issues to be sure...

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"Be excellent to each other." -Bill & Ted
"Do we need to have the "fantasy/reality" discussion again?" - eris
Feminist Rants

"Heaven holds a sense of wonder and I wanted to believe that I'd be called up when the rage in me subsides." - Sarah McLachlan w/ Delerium