question

[Tonnie]

Hi I'm new to the board and pretty much new to filmmaking (Haven't even started yet). I don't know if this has been ask before if so I'm sorry but..

I'm planning on shooting short films using a super 8 crystal sync camera and record my sound using DAT. I want to transfer my film to video but I don't want to edit my picture on video, I was wondering if I could edit my film linear then transfer it to video then add sound (dialouge, music, sound effects) to my film from a DAT tape using a video editor.

Can this be done? Is there a better way? If I can do it that way how will it turn out? I'm looking for the good quality.

[Actor]

If by "edit linear" you mean edit your film before telecine then yes it can be done.

Possible problems.

Shoot at 23.976 fps so that the 3:2 pulldown of the telecine will correctly match the 29.97 fps of NTSC.

Some telecine houses will not want to run spliced film through their machines. You will have to get an answer print for them.

Other telecine houses will run hot spliced film through their machines. It is a rare one that will run tape spliced film.

[ekoe]

tonnie,
i understand you don't want to edit on video, but i'd suggest transferring your film and editing on video before you cut your film. you'll want freedom to make mistakes. you don't want to be butchering your camera original. unfortunately, there is no room on the super8mm perf for keycode (a 20 interval count designating frame numbers useful in negative cutting), so you'll have to visually match your film frames with the video edits when it's time to cut your film (so that it matches your audio edit). for this, i'd suggest acquiring a super8 editor equipped with a frame counter. this can get hairy because of the 3/2 pulldown (the 18 or 24 frame per second film footage must be 'interpolated' or adjusted to match the 29.97 frame per second rate of video; as a result, frames are duplicated or dropped, i apologize if i'm re-iterating things you already know), but it would help as a rough reference. with non-linear systems (such as avid and final cut pro) you have the option of printing an edit report which lists all of your cuts. this is the information you would send to a negative cutter who would then use the keycode along the perforation edge of the camera original to cut the negative indentical to your non-linear edit. then you'd use your non-linear audio edit along with a positive print from the cut negative. in essence, you'd be performing the work of a negative cutter. except if you're working with super8, it'd be cheaper to stick with reversal stock (like kodachrome, ektachrome, tri-x or plus-x), in which case you're not cutting a negative to be printed but cutting a positive image which will most likely be used as the final piece, you follow? and there's no easy way to do this with super8, due to the lack of keycode. so i understand. i've been toying with the idea myself. i've wanted to project completed projects from film with soundtrack. not easy since kodak discontinued soundstock and super8 sound discontinued the mag perf sound stock and mag perf recorders, and external sound synchronization with super8 projectors is a conundrum super8 filmmakers are ruminating. previously, you'd either record your sound single system using kodak soundstock or double system using a mag perf recorder. then you'd use a gang synchronizer which would keep film and audio footage in alignment as you edited. then you'd bump your sound down to the soundstripe on the film for projection in a super8 sound projector. that's what i understand anyway. i'm young, so i didn't live through all the mumbo. someone please correct me if i'm wrong. i deserve to be learn'd a thing or two.
can i ask you why you don't want to edit on video? for me, it's because i want to project the final result on film. i abhor video projection. but if you're planning on showing you final result on video, you can expedite the process by editing on video. of course, i encourage you to edit on film.
and to project film. and keep chasing this bull. so i won't be the only mad bastid out here.
-e.

[ekoe]

tonnie,
i understand you don't want to edit on video, but i'd suggest transferring your film and editing on video before you cut your film. you'll want freedom to make mistakes. you don't want to be butchering your camera original. unfortunately, there is no room on the super8mm perf for keycode (a 20 interval count designating frame numbers useful in negative cutting), so you'll have to visually match your film frames with the video edits when it's time to cut your film (so that it matches your audio edit). for this, i'd suggest acquiring a super8 editor equipped with a frame counter. this can get hairy because of the 3/2 pulldown (the 18 or 24 frame per second film footage must be 'interpolated' or adjusted to match the 29.97 frame per second rate of video; as a result, frames are duplicated or dropped, i apologize if i'm re-iterating things you already know), but it would help as a rough reference. with non-linear systems (such as avid and final cut pro) you have the option of printing an edit report which lists all of your cuts. this is the information you would send to a negative cutter who would then use the keycode along the perforation edge of the camera original to cut the negative indentical to your non-linear edit. then you'd use your non-linear audio edit along with a positive print from the cut negative. in essence, you'd be performing the work of a negative cutter. except if you're working with super8, it'd be cheaper to stick with reversal stock (like kodachrome, ektachrome, tri-x or plus-x), in which case you're not cutting a negative to be printed but cutting a positive image which will most likely be used as the final piece, you follow? and there's no easy way to do this with super8, due to the lack of keycode. so i understand. i've been toying with the idea myself. i've wanted to project completed projects from film with soundtrack. not easy since kodak discontinued soundstock and super8 sound discontinued the mag perf sound stock and mag perf recorders, and external sound synchronization with super8 projectors is a conundrum super8 filmmakers are ruminating. previously, you'd either record your sound single system using kodak soundstock or double system using a mag perf recorder. then you'd use a gang synchronizer which would keep film and audio footage in alignment as you edited. then you'd bump your sound down to the soundstripe on the film for projection in a super8 sound projector. that's what i understand anyway. i'm young, so i didn't live through all the mumbo. someone please correct me if i'm wrong. i deserve to be learn'd a thing or two.
can i ask you why you don't want to edit on video? for me, it's because i want to project the final result on film. i abhor video projection. but if you're planning on showing you final result on video, you can expedite the process by editing on video. of course, i encourage you to edit on film.
and to project film. and keep chasing this bull. so i won't be the only mad bastid out here.
-e.

[ekoe]

oops, sorry 'bout the repost.

[Tonnie]

Thanks guys! The reason why I wanted to edit on film is because I wanted to experience of it and I wanted to see how it will turn out on film, but I'll just go with editing it all on video.

[ekoe]

in that case, consider making a silent short to edit on film. add music, sound effects or dub dialogue after the cut. good luck.


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