Slates

[Actor]

I'm thinking of buying a slate (i.e., clapper board) from Visual Products. They carry two kinds. One is black chalkboard and costs $25. The other is white dry erase marker for $50. I'm inclined to go with the dry erase type, even though it costs twice as much, because the dry erase cleans up easier than chalk. But it's occured to me that mayby the white on black chalk board my show up better and be easier to read. Does anyone have any experience in this regard?

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 21, 2002 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Actor ]</font>

[vt220]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm thinking of buying a slate (i.e., clapper board) from Visual Products. They carry two kinds. One is black chalkboard and costs $25. The other is white dry erase marker for $50.
[...] Does anyone have any experience in this regard? </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

dry erase is definitely the way to go. plenty visible, and not messy. also easier to affix gaffer's tape to (usually the items that don't change, like the director's name, date, camera name, etc. are written on tape affixed to the slate so they don't smear throughout the day.)

[MovieStuff]

Personally, I think that slating is a waste of film on small independent productions. Slates were instituted when studios had dozens and dozens of huge projects going on at the same time and their in house lab needed information to keep track of footage and sound tracks so that it could all get back to the right edit room. Also, they generally only printed the take indicated by the director, so slates were essential.

If you are a one man band and cutting the same footage that you personally shot, I see little advantage of a slate, especially if editing on video. Slate or no, you are probably going to watch all the takes and will probably end up using pieces of each. By the time you even get to the actual editing stage, you'll be so familiar with each shot that you could identify it without benefit of a slate.

If I was going to use a slate, I think I would just have a bunch of index cards with big numbers like "1" "2" "3" etc. That way, if you ARE working with an assistant, you simply identify the cut by a number: "I like number 25" or "I think number 203 looks the best". What scene it represents you'll already know by sight. Plus, it hardly seems likely that you would need to be reminded from cut to cut who the director was or what the name of the project is or who shot it or if it was MOS or whatever.

Again, this is just my personal take on it but I think that, for super 8 at least, slating anything just eats up too much film and accomplishes nothing useful that couldn't be handled in different ways that were more film conservative.

But I'd go with the chalk board. It may not really accomplish anything but it seems kind of classy and retro. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Roger

[Jerome Cain]

colors chalk would be cool and stay longer than marker. con and pro of its' Jerome

[Actor]

My motivation for getting a slate is for sync marking. As far as I know the only alternative to slating (clapping?) for sync is lip sync. If anybody has any other ideas I'd love to hear them. I have never synced double system before since up to now my only experience (movie sound wise) has been with video.

Perhaps I should have said "clapper" (or "clap board"or "clapper board"). I thought slate and clapper were synonymous. I looked in a Dictionary of Film Terminology and could not find either term.

If all you use a slate for is identifying takes then it seems to me that (if your camera has single frame capability) you could just click off one frame of slate. Not too wasteful at all.

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Actor:
My motivation for getting a slate is for sync marking. As far as I know the only alternative to slating (clapping?) for sync is lip sync. If anybody has any other ideas I'd love to hear them.
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite a few films we get in for transfer are for synch sound and the actors merely clap their hands at the head and tail of each scene. I think that works the more effeciently for a variety of reasons. One is that it uses the least film since the actor can be posed with hands ready to clap. Also, it reduces the number of people on the set required for the shoot.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Actor:

If all you use a slate for is identifying takes then it seems to me that (if your camera has single frame capability) you could just click off one frame of slate. Not too wasteful at all.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 100%. A single frame is all that's needed or even just a short burst of a few frames if the camera doesn't have single frame capability. You've always seemed pretty sharp in your posts so I figured you were just needing a clapper. As such, please don't take too much offense at my little rant. [img]smile.gif[/img]

But honestly, it is sometimes fun to watch the metamorphosis that directors go through. We see it here by the film they send in over time. We had one client that was working on his mini-epic that started out with the traditional slate; scene number, camera man, sound, take, etc. The whole nine yards. The shot would start, several seconds would go by while the slate person would walk out and mark the scene - clap! - another second or so would go by (one could imagine the director going,"Annnnnddd....action!). Anyway, this technique was VERY evident in the first batch of film sent in to us. I noted to my wife, Annette, that he got very few complete takes because of the amount film being wasted just for the slate process. In fact, some of the scenes were shorter than the slate time!

So, didn't think too much about it. But then his next batch of film came in weeks later. I guess he made the same observations becauser THIS time, the slate person literally JUMPED in and out of the frame as soon as the camera started rolling. The amount of slate info was also reduced to only the scene and take info. I guess there was no longer a cameraman or director as they were no longer listed on the slate. In fact, the back of the slate was used instead which allowed them to use really big scene and take numbers.

Now, the NEXT batch of film we got in, the slate was already in the shot when the camera started filming. I can only guess the budget was getting thin and the director realized he could maximize his film by reducing the slate time even more.

Taking that idea to the next level, the final batch of film we received had NO slate of any kind. Just actors standing there with their hands apart, ready to clap. It was really truly amusing to see the change in style from "traditional" shooting where everthing was very casual and proper to "guerilla style" shooting where everything was really faced paced and hectic. Of course we could not hear any sound but it seemed to me the performances were better on the faster paced shooting. A lot more energy, determination. People seemed to pick up their cues faster, etc.

Anyway, that's the upshot of my rant. Traditional slates and slating often make first time directors and the crew feel like they're working on a "real" movie. But, in reality, any good director worth his/her salt realizes that economy is more important than posing for the benefit of the crowd. I was glad to see this particular director make that realization. His stuff looked really good and he seems to have talent.

Still, I would go with the chalk board slate. They just look so coooool! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Roger

[sickmedia]

if you want a chalk slate, you get one for ten bucks from suncoast video stores (if there's one in your area). The one I found was full size, works great, and looks just as real as the $25 one from visual products.

[Scotness]

Here's what we did on In My Image -

someone would stand in shot with the clapper all marked up and ready to go

the 1st AD would say "roll sound"

the snd recordist would start it and say "rolling" or "speed" (even though it was a minidisc and not a tape!)

the 1st AD would say "Scene 47 Shot 2 Take 3 [or whatever it was] roll camera"

the camera would roll

the 1st AD would say "clap it"

the clapper would be clapped the person would get out of shot and the 1st AD would say action

Now I agree with Roger that clapping hands would probably be sufficient - and that you do know your shots pretty well by the time you come to edit -- but it all depends on the size of your project - we shot over 8 hours of footage with over 800 individual takes -- and when I came to synch the audio with the video I did at times have to read the information on the clapper - and compare it to what was announced on the audio -- most of the time I worked off the paper work we had but rarely there was some confusion and I had to try and discern it off the clapper and audio -- it's easy to remember shots and scenes but distinguisging between individual takes can be hard

hope this helps

Scot M

[Nigel]

I always always alway use a slate unless I am shooting footage that is for personal use. I will even sometimes use one then. It keeps things clear and simple. I know what is coming up. I can look at my camera report and see if it was a bad take. The editor can see the same info. I also always use a grey card at under the slate to help the colorist.

If you want one get one that is dry erase over chalk.

Good Luck

[Actor]

Now that you mention it I do recall seeing the clapping of hands used as a sync mark before. There was this documentary on TV about climbing some mountain. The cameraman needed a tail slate and was trying to get the sherpas to clap their hands. They did not speak english and he could not communicate what he wanted. I don't remember whether he ever got it or not.

In that situration I think I would have pointed the camera at my feet and clicked my heels.