"Why, Father?" My New 1Day Film!

**Spunkey1pestic** · January 5th, 2005, 02:13 PM

Agreed Jb

**jb_617** · January 5th, 2005, 02:30 PM

Awww, thanks guys! [img]redface.gif[/img]

------------------------

Everyone is so nice here.

**untamed_aggression** · January 5th, 2005, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by emjen:
I'll have to stop this before Untamed attains his God status here at the boards.

What do you mean "before?"

EVERYONE BOW DOWN TO ME!!!!

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

But yeah, JB nailed it. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

**Tasty Fish Lips** · January 5th, 2005, 09:03 PM

Age doesn't matter....

...I started shooting Super8 when I was 8 years old--Are those movies worth watching. Hell No...

That's a contradiction.

On initiate's website, he explains that he has only just recently begun making films. Or videos, I should say.

He's very new at this. Just like you were, Nigel, when you were eight making those super 8 shorts. And for being as new as he is, I applaud the fact that he does want to deal with issues that have more substance than explosions and tanks.

But of course, under normal circumstances, like in a theater or at a festival or at a random short film website, when you show someone your film, they don't know about your age or how long you've been doing this. And they're not really going to care. But because this a filmmaking website designed for us to help eachother -it becomes a relative issue.

When you put your stuff on display, like jb said, you've got to be realistic in how people will receive your work.

Initiate, what is it about your film that you think makes it worth more than the reaction you're getting here? That's the question you have to ask yourself. That's what we all have to ask ourselves. And we have to be honest. Maintaining objectivty is one of the most difficult things about filmmaking, in all aspects. And if you look at your work, and realize, ok - this isn't as great as I thought - then you're on the right track. You aknowledge your problems and either avoid them next time, or work harder on solving them.

Being cynical isnt a bad thing. It is the world we live in and I think it should be embraced. On your website, you say you want to make "esoteric" films. Well, you seem to have succeeded. Esoteric means to be designed for a specific audience only. To isolate. Personally, I think of it as a negative term - associated with pretensious elitism. If that's what you want - that's what you got. You say "other forums" liked your work.

Unless you desire to make films for a specifically small audience, you need to expect all kinds of criticism and become more versatile. Spirtuality is fine, but it is does not deal with the tangible here and now. Embrace cynicism. Have a sense of humor. It is the world we live in.

So, Initiate, seriously, what is about your short that you think deserves applause? Specifically. Every little thing that you think is good.

[ January 05, 2005 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Tasty Fish Lips ]

**Nigel** · January 5th, 2005, 11:13 PM

TFL--

I don't think you are getting what I said. I was talking about how age doesn't matter. That if you are 47 or 17 age has nothing to do with the product. What matters is time with your art.

The other thing is that I have never gone to his website so I can't comment on what it says.

Initiate will grow as a his time at the craft does. I look forward to seeing more of his work.

Good Luck

**Initiate** · January 5th, 2005, 11:35 PM

You asked. Or did you mean, "Tell me what I want to hear."
It's criticism. We all have to deal with it. I'm sure everyone here gets their fair share of rejection.
Maybe you should make a short about rejection. You're character can begin by asking, "Why? Why..."
Seriously though. Everyone goes through this. You're mistaken if you think this is some kind of conspiracy against you.

I never meant tell me what I want to hear, I got a few good reviews from a different forum, and I really didn?t think it was as bad as you were making it out, I understand not enjoying it, but there was so much there and you didn?t like any of it? The color, the texture? The set? The ideal? The actor, anything, its just, a lot of you claimed it was bad and dint offer any constructive criticism, which as a filmmaker doesn?t help me a great deal. I can deal with criticism quite well, it wasn?t the fact that you dint like it, its how you went about it.

Give me a suggestion, shorter run time? Smoother Cuts? Faster Cuts? Godzilla? You can?t just say, that was horrible and continue and think that you added a great deal to the films criticism and added a great deal to my filmmaking ability. I no for a fact it wasn?t quite as bad as a lot of you are making it out. But if you think it is so be it, at least give me some constructive criticism, and in truth, if you say there is nothing you like about the film, you ARE being quite mean, I can always find something I like in every film.

Untamed knows his market. He seems to be learning the rules before he breaks them, his result is clich?d but well paced and it invokes a tone of fun.

Yes, I over reacted here, it wasn?t I didn?t like the film, I got a laugh from it, it was the fact I was trying so much harder then what it seemed untamed was trying, not putting him down at all. I was trying a serious issue, he had food that attacks, I just felt like nobody could see what I was trying to do, and it kind of hurt, I know, I should be able to take it better then what I have, so I?m sorry.

Honest criticism is the only type that's worth anything. Otherwise how do we learn from our mistakes?

Really? Your Shit, or this stinks isn?t honest criticism, its you being an asshole. Honest criticism is help that doesn?t consist of vulgalaritys and also brings something to the table. Example, I think that you should have pulled a rifle out and shot the statue, or I would have enjoyed it if the man character was struck by lighting, this si what I want, not, this is shot, and from a group of experienced mature filmmakers, this is what I expect, and why I get defensive when I here, just plane bad.

One last point - if your film consists of a man talking to a statue it needs to be a lot shorter.
Sorry to be so negative At least some others have been more positive - you can't please all the people all the time...

No problem, you gave me some constructive criticism.

i think that anyone who is saying that it is good as a film is being kind and more likely rewarding your pious intention.

Juts because you don?t like it doesn?t mean everybody doesn?t, If you noticed a lot of the shots did look good, not being vain, just giving myself some frigging credit.

I think that the intention of the film is good... but there wasn't enough there make it anything more meaningful to me.
my girlfriend liked it however, but since she's a tv-soap fan that doesn't count for much.

This made me laugh, I?m happy your girlfriend liked it. It seems so far that about one out of three like it, which isn?t bad for me.

So youre only 17. I didn't realize that.
Still very young. When I was that age, I wasn't exactly cranking out masterpieces.
Hang in there, take your time, and you'll be fine.

Thank you, yes I am only seventeen, actually I turned seventeen two weeks ago, I started making films in July 2004. I hardly think this is a masterpiece, it wasn?t what I was going for. I just wanted to make another practice film, that I could learn from.

Thank you Tatsy!!
Seriously Folks.... I agree that Nathaniel needs to understand Constructive critism, but at 17 did any of us take critism well - espcailly when it came to politic's/Religon/or your Mom...
Seriously....
He said himself He did this in one day, because his heart was moved-He didn't say He wanted to Market this to Paramount and call in the Lawyers for distribution rights..... He's learning!!
Nigel,-
I've made a living at it too and I understand the Job... But if I hadn't played around and made films at 13- I wouldn't have been a PA at 19... and an AD at 21....
Everyone has to start somewhere-and critism is not saying "You suck"- It's working the problems!

Thank you Tasty, and thank you to everyone who defended me in this thread, it means a lot to me. In a way what you said is exactly how I feel.

I started shooting Super8 when I was 8 years old--Are those movies worth watching. Hell No...

I wish I had started that early, maybe then this would be worth watching at least for a few more of you.

1/ Argue with them and tell them why they are wrong. Explain why your work is good and berate them for being cynical, blah, blah, blah...
2/ Accept that not everyone will like everything and carry on with your work.

I have chosen number 2. Always did, but I wanted something more decent that. Is that a joke? I fucking think that very hurtful.

So, Initiate, seriously, what is about your short that you think deserves applause? Specifically. Every little thing that you think is good.

Not applause, just a little understanding. I don?t think its brilliant, but I definitely don?t think it?s a piece of shit. I personally like the fact that this person, who wants to know the answer, asks god and gats answered by the higher version of himself, which is really the god inside us. I like the ideal that god is inside us and the fact that we can all help and make a difference even if some of us feel were helpless, we never are.

I like the candles and incense and statues that I used, I think showing Buddha and Jesus in the same voice shows tolerance and unity as a people, meaning we can all help no matter what nationality and race we are, or religion.

I like the color I chose to portray the film in, a warm orange color that I think looked nice.

I like some of the shots, there are a few nice overhead shots, side shots, angels that I think were nice, especially a specific one which I love, where it shows the head, the triple candelabra and the large candelabra together at different levels, I am quite proud of that one shot.

I think the dialogues can be worked abit, it?s a little stiff sometimes, I think it needs to be shorter, I only envisioned a 5 minute flick but it just stretched out. I think I should stop posting here, but there?s a significant lack in good filmmaking forums. I?m happy that a few of you appreciated what I was trying to do and the film, in some way.

Thank you, and i apologize for seeming like I was defending the film and not accepting your criticism, but the only criticism I wasn?t accepting is the criticism that doesn?t help me at all.

And its not just plane bad no matter what anybody thinks, I l defend it to the extent, its not necessarily good, but I know it isn?t a piece of shit that you can all walk all over. My heart was in this piece.

Thank you again.

**eidde** · January 6th, 2005, 08:55 AM

hey I think you should be glad people actually downloaded and commented on it!
Ive posted stuff up here and only 3 people took the time to actually look at the film and comment....

So you arent really the victim of fickle critism. Though everyone likes to defend themselves.

Sheesh! Be glad a few more people have seen the film.
Give praise, and pour out libation.

**jb_617** · January 6th, 2005, 09:19 AM

I have chosen number 2. Always did, but I wanted something more decent that. Is that a joke? I fucking think that very hurtful.

Well, like I said, I wasn't offering any critique at this point as I haven't really got to grips with the piece. But, as to my comments: They are not hurtful, they are advice, take it or leave it. It was free. But don't contradict yourself without putting your tounge firmly in your cheek.

I think that technicaly, nobody has a serious problem with your film. In my opinion it was very competent and I can't find any fault with it.

What I am unsure about, like I said before, is where it's coming from? I honestly can't offer any comment on this shot or that shot, it was fine, did the job. I think most people would broadly agree, that's why it wasn't mentioned.

You see, (and I'm going to wax a while here) in my opinion there are three grades of critique for a film.

1/ Technical. Did the direction do the job? Was it well lit/filmed/edited? For your film the answer is yes, it did the job. That's probably why that aspect of it has been mentioned so little. You rarely get praise for getting the basics right at any level. Sorry if you were looking for that, but most people just expect it.

2/ Story/Acting. Was the story good? Did it move from A to B in a competent way? Could I relate to it? Was it a subject I could get behind? Were the actors good? Did I have the expected reaction to them? I am not offering anything here for the above reasons. But I did broadly like the acting.

3/ Message. What is this piece telling me? Do I agree? Am I offended? Did the point come across? What is the point? This is where I found it to be a little confusing. I thought that it lost the focus of where it started from, the thread just didn't carry for me. But like I said, I'll watch it again a couple more times and give you some proper reaction if you would like?

Anyway, and sorry for not saying this before, well done. Frankly it's an achievement to get anything filmed and finished. Like you say, this took about 5 hours start to finish (is that right?) so I say congratulations. Please don't be discouraged by anyones comments here, they are all meant in good spirit. I really hope to see more of your work in the future, I think you've got a solid foundation to build on.

------------------------

See? I can play nice.

[ January 06, 2005 05:20 AM: Message edited by: jb. ]

[ January 06, 2005 05:20 AM: Message edited by: jb. ]

[ January 06, 2005 10:47 AM: Message edited by: jb. ]

**Initiate** · January 6th, 2005, 11:51 AM

hey I think you should be glad people actually downloaded and commented on it!
Ive posted stuff up here and only 3 people took the time to actually look at the film and comment....
So you arent really the victim of fickle critism. Though everyone likes to defend themselves.
Sheesh! Be glad a few more people have seen the film.
Give praise, and pour out libation.

I actually agree there, I am amzed at how many people have taken the time to see it, and I apprciate that quite a bit. Thank everyone.

Well, like I said, I wasn't offering any critique at this point as I haven't really got to grips with the piece. But, as to my comments: They are not hurtful, they are advice, take it or leave it. It was free. But don't contradict yourself without putting your tounge firmly in your cheek.
I think that technichally, nobody has a serious problem with your film. In my opinion it was very competent and I can't find any fault with it.
What I am unsure about, like I said before, is where it's coming from? I honestly can't offer any comment on this shot or that shot, it was fine, did the job. I think most people would broadly agree, that's why it wasn't mentioned.
You see, (and I'm going to wax a while here) in my opinion there are three grades of critique for a film.
1/ Technical. Did the direction do the job? Was it well lit/filmed/edited? For your film the answer is yes, it did the job. That's probably why that aspect of it has been mentioned so little. You rarely get praise for getting the basics right at any level. Sorry if you were looking for that, but most people just expect it.
2/ Story/Acting. Was the story good? Did it move from A to B in a competent way? Could I relate to it? Was it a subject I could get behind? Were the actors good? Did I have the expected reaction to them? I am not offering anything here for the above reasons. But I did broadly like the acting.
3/ Message. What is this piece telling me? Do I agree? Am I offended? Did the point come across? What is the point? This is where I found it to be a little confusing. I thought that it lost the focus of where it started from, the thread just didn't carry for me. But like I said, I'll watch it again a couple more times and give you some proper reaction if you would like?
Anyway, and sorry for not saying this before, well done. Frankly it's an achievement to get anything filmed and finished. Like you say, this took about 5 hours start to finish (is that right?) so I say congratulations. Please don't be discouraged by anyone?s comments here, they are all meant in good spirit. I really hope to see more of your work in the future, I think you've got a solid foundation to build on.

Are they your three steps or the three steps in general, I am actually amazed, I passed the first two steps basically, I didn?t know about those. I didn?t realize people thought the shots were ok because, yeah they didn?t mention them, I am a beginner, I thought when people said it was shit without any criticism, they thought every aspect was shit, your telling me the lighting, the acting and the edit was all a big tick and it was the message your were stuck on, that is very different to ?it was just plane bad.

Where am I coming from? I?m not sure what you mean by this.

Most people always cry out to god to help them when life gets them down, what they don?t do, is realize that they can help themselves, wanting to help yourself shouldn?t challenge your faith and people should stop blaming god for there own, or humanities misfortunes.

I was trying to say, through gods voice, that instead of asking/demanding/blaming god, get up and do something, even something small can help. We all have the ability to donate a few dollars to the relief fund, to take a bike to work or walk if we can instead of driving, to eat an apple instead of puffing on a cigarette etc. Its proven that these days the natural disasters are caused by humanity, not necessarily the ozone layer, which is not where I?m going with this, but other things that we do.

Where am I coming from? Well, I?m coming from my point of view. Where is the film coming from? The same place. I chose to use god and the kid because I liked the setting and it didn?t require me to go to any local or hire actors. (the actor was me). I chose to branch off and not answer the question directly because every god conversation twists and turns. If god had gone, because your a dumbass who kills his planet, I think the effect I was going for wouldn?t have been achieved.

I hope I answered your question.

**jb_617** · January 6th, 2005, 12:03 PM

They are pretty much my three steps. I'm sure everyone has their own little mental checklist when it comes to watching and reviewing films.

(Feel free to flame me at the usual guys, man I'm so happy that I posted my e-mail address on here!)

I can see where you are trying to come from with the piece now. I watched it again this morning and your comments helped. It was maybe a bit broad and lacking some subtlety.

One thing I have to say though. It was a natural disaster, it wasn't anyone's fault and we aren't being punished for any imagined sin.

I find this whole outpouring of grief to be frankly laughable myself. After all where the hell was everybody when 1 million people died in Rwanda? The 35,000 people killed in Tehran in 1990? I can't remember seeing one film or "DONATE NOW!!!" hotline for that shit. I could go on. Let's face it, if it isn't somewhere that rich tourists go on holiday, nobody gives a crap.

Man I hate double standards.

-------------------------

We are all going to Hell. Or none of us. I forget which it is.

[ January 06, 2005 08:06 AM: Message edited by: jb. ]

Thread: "Why, Father?" My New 1Day Film!

Thread Tools

Display

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions