Doubles?

[Cameron_Mahoney]

Is heel-toe an accepted method of playing bass drum, or is it generally frowned upon? I know that early in my playing career I was told that it is inefficient and impossible to get even, so I tried not to use it. I always thought that the doubles that these guys were doing (virgil, lang, etc.) were just RRLL sticking, but that would be silly and pointless, when you could just do singles. Anyway, I'm rambling, so I'll stop. I guess I just wanted to know if heel-toe is a "real" technique that pro's use.

[matricks]

I think heel-toe is a GREAT technique... however make sure it is the one that Steve Smith uses, not the one that the guy sells in those "ballistic" drum videos. The one that Smith outlines is the real deal. You have GREAT control with it. However, you must work on your heel up AND heel down technique if you want to use that technique.
Why use doubles?
1) You get a different sound than singles.
2) You have control over the set when you aren't limited by only being able to do singles. Think if you could only play singles with your hands?

[peter c]

If you go over to Virgil's site, the
subject is talked about and talked
about and talked about.

You should try and make your
double-stroke applcation on your
feet an extension of your applic-
ation on your hands.

One thing you should experiment
with is placement of your foot on
the footboard. The lower your foot
is on the board, the more beater
action off the head you will have.

For 200bpm double, I am down on
the footboard. You want to be as
relaxed as possible, so finding the
sweet spot on the footboard is
crucial. I am 1/3rd up, on the
board for mine.

One more thing, don't ever make
these more important than your
single-strokes.

UNLESS you are FlamTriplet, or
in that situation, you will find
it hard to apply this skill in a
musical setting.

In the end, remember that if it
is not done musically, it's bet-
ter that it was never done.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 30, 2004 10:45 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[mwm]

Great info guys -- exactly what I was looking for.

[Riddim]

Step on pedal, make sound. This is not Mensa qualification material. Just do what you have to do to get the sounds you hear in your head.

If you hear accents, accent. Be consistent, and practice in a slow, controlled manner- the speed will come. Make your left foot do the same things you make your right foot do, and the left will develop. The harder you work, the luckier you get.

Perhaps the Alzheimer's is kicking in earlier than expected, but I don't understand why Louie's response is being jumped on. Counting angels on pinheads is fine, if you see angels there. Not many of us do, I hope.

[XNavyDrummer]

Just like there are various hand techniques; Moeller, wrist stroke, finger stroke etc., there are various foot techniques.

Here's a few different kick drum techniques that I've noticed.

1) Steve Smith method
2) Foot slide method (first beat of doubles has the toe slightly behind the location of the second beat).
3) Foot "twitch" method, where the toe stays basically in the same spot on the foot board and the heel is toward the snare stand for the first beat and more inline with the footboard for the second beat. This is what Virgil's doubles looked like to me last night. Also, when I saw Lang, it appeared he was doing the same thing.
4) Heel down.
5) Heel/toe.

[Kurt R]

Did Steve get it from Freddie Gruber?

[moosetication]

Originally posted by palmerlouie:
there is no technque...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's a very strange thing to say for a smart guy like you. Everything is technique, whether you like it or not. If you can just do it instinctively, more power to you. But to say "there is no technique" is just silly.

[mwm]

no disrespect, but these questions make me laugh. there is no technque....u just practice them. RR LL.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hmmm -- odd.

Of course, it takes lots of practice -- but that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to practice -- does it?

But, glad I gave you your laugh for the day --it's nice when I can lighten the load for my fellow man.

[peter c]

Consider what FlamTriplet is saying,
for speed. When you do your fastest
singles, with your hands, they are
generally closer to the head. It is
no different, with the feet.

I agree with him, on the generation
of power too - this, from the legs.
Think of the hands and how your high-
speed doubles are done.

When I build these new computers, I
will be able to show new video on the
idea but even without them, it's ob-
vious that the leg muscles are much
larger than any other and that can be
used constructively.

Oh and I do like to slide too.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 31, 2004 02:13 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>